On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Don't hold your breath.

    I've been waiting for evidence that CERA is voodoo for months now.

    All they come up with is misuse of the stat they don't even understand or absurd notions that a pitcher does all the research and plans out each pitch of every game.

    Singling out that Buch and Lester did OK with VMart is like saying Yaz's stats do not show he is a good hitter, because he didn't do well vs a few pitchers. (.466 OPS vs Gaylord Perry, .623 vs Gary Peters, .651 vs Pete Broberg)
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    In Response to Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA:
    [QUOTE]This is Saltalamacchia's 5th year to make it in the bigs. If he doesn't know how to catch by now, at the major league level, perhaps he belongs in AAA. VTek's first full season (144 games) was at age 27. Salty turns 26 soon.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    He caught 93 games in 2007; 61 in 2008; and 84 in 2009. Injury cut his 2010 numbers way down.
    How does he compare to Matt Wieters who will just 25 in May?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Unless two catchers splits contemporaneous seasons with the same pitcher, rotating every other starting pitcher's start, there isn't one iota of casue and effect proximate cause to prove that the catcher has one iota to do with a pitcher pitching. 

    CERA is the figment of a very disturbed Varitek lover. Scioscia's a catcher, so it's not suprising he would say that CERA is one metric to use when evaluating the bigger picture of a Buck/VMart marriage vs. a Buck/Varitek marriage.

    Now, I keep a stat on how many passed balls a pitcher has, and a stat I call "Pitcher BA", which is what a catcher hits when catching that pitcher. This is very important because a pitcher working with a catcher can have a real calming affect on a catcher's hitting and it can give a catcher confidence, or, if the pitcher simply doesn't have it, can take a catcher's hitting confidence away.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    I played the game, like most people who grew up in the U.S.A. Of course, if playing the game was a litmus test for knowing the rules and how the game strategy and evaluating players is done, then every ex-MLB player would be a good GM or manager or talent evaluator. That's not the case.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    How about answering my question, which I pose to you for the 3rd time:
    Why didn't Scioscia make Napoli the FT catcher all those years, instead of sharing the duties with Mathis?

    Napoli:    .252 BA   .348 OBP    .840 OPS    97 HR 

    Mathis:  .199 BA  .263 OBP  .576 OPS   24 HR
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Crickets...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    that darn Tek's CERA just went up because of Ells....doesnt make a whole lot of sense does it?

    Baseball DR is correct - you need to have the same pitchers and catchers equally in order to gauge CERA...

    or you could just throw strikes and get ahead in the count and not worry about who your catcher is
    -just sayin'
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from FarmFan. Show FarmFan's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    In Response to Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA:
    [QUOTE]Salty is a work in progress, let's give him a chance to mature a little bit behnd the plate. Varitek is a good mentor for him. Harness ought to be showing up soon with his thoughts on CERA.
    Posted by MikeNagy[/QUOTE]

    We all agree except for the fact Jason should have been a mentor five years ago.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    FarmFan good point - many of the wiser ones were asking for a prodigy to be acquired prior to the 2010 season and yet here we stand still depending on Varitek to perform not teach. 

    The Red Sox should have acquired two potential MLB catchers not only one, and more than a year ago to allow for the Great Tek to teach them a bit about proper catching.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    harness - Simple answer. He can hit.
    Varitek will only be in there so long. No major ballplayer deserves to play with an average like Varitek. It will only be so much time before they get a new starter and Varitek is relegated to catching no more than twice a week. You can hide a batter only so long.

    Do you want someone like this?

    33 AB , BA .091 , Runs 0 , RBI's 1 , K%  33%
    Regardless of what they say about his fielding, he has produced one run all year. You can argue that he has been the least productive batter in the entire major leagues to date. Find someone worse.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA




    ouch!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FarmFan. Show FarmFan's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    In Response to Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA:
    [QUOTE]FarmFan good point - many of the wiser ones were asking for a prodigy to be acquired prior to the 2010 season and yet here we stand still depending on Varitek to perform not teach.  The Red Sox should have acquired two potential MLB catchers not only one, and more than a year ago to allow for the Great Tek to teach them a bit about proper catching.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I agree burrito,

    Theo has done a pretty darn good job everywhere except the catching position.  The trend began many years ago so we really should have found a better option by now.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Just for argument's sake: how much is a 1.00 lower CERA worth in terms of lost offense due to poor hitting?

    Catcher A: bats .200 with a .600 OPS, but the staff has an ERA of 3.50 when he catches.

    Catcher B: bats .300 with an .800 OPS, but the staff has an ERA or 4.50 when he catches.

    Do you think that the offense of catcher B will make up a run per game?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    That may be your weakest post ever moonslav59.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    No way. No where close to it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from FarmFan. Show FarmFan's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    In Response to Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA:
    [QUOTE]No way. No where close to it.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Varitek was 0 for 3 tonight and now 3 for 33 for the season.  A passed ball "regardlessof who you blame" helped bring in the winning run after tying the game.  Instead of pinch hitting for a guy how about replacing him with a guy that can have a positive overall impact on the team?

    It's time to stop looking for one positive in a hay stack and beating it to death in hopes more than a few agree.  It's time to retire Tek to a coaching role, something that should have taken place a few years ago.  Tek isn't helping his legacy by continuing his career and should simply retire.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    And Pedey and Crawford went 0 - 8. Why don't you try to answer Moon's question regarding what a catcher has to hit to compensate for lost ERA.

    You are blinded by one poor bat out of nine. Tek's "one positive" - of getting more out of a pitching staff than his counterparts - profoundly affects team win-loss records. That outweighs all else.

    Take off UR blinders. The "few who would agree" just two years ago have become the multitude. You are bringing up the rear.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from wherescreamingcomesfrom. Show wherescreamingcomesfrom's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    In Response to Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA:
    [QUOTE]The " few who would agree" just two years ago have become the multitude.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]


     Antonio Negri?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    It's more of a democratic movement. It began in 2009 with three G. Kottaras BP meltdowns.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Varitek was 0 for 3 tonight and now 3 for 33 for the season.  A passed ball "regardlessof who you blame" helped bring in the winning run after tying the game.  Instead of pinch hitting for a guy how about replacing him with a guy that can have a positive overall impact on the team?

    It's time to stop looking for one positive in a hay stack and beating it to death in hopes more than a few agree.  It's time to retire Tek to a coaching role, something that should have taken place a few years ago.  Tek isn't helping his legacy by continuing his career and should simply retire.


    On the money. While magic fingers won't decide how this team ends up, there is no question that it would help to end this debacle and get a solid defensive catcher who can throw well and move well and block and catch the ball well behind the plate. Varitek's joints and senses are dulled, he's like a 90 year old women driving during rush hour on the freeway.

    Varitek can't hit (3 acorns don't mean he can hit at MLB level)
    Varitek can't throw (1 or 2 acorns don't mean he can throw)
    Varitek can't block and make tough catchers

    The magic fingers theory isn't enough to warrant giving this old guy much playing time. After the last few games, I've gone from accepting that he can be a marginal backup to he needs to go, with Wakefield.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    For the 4th time:


    Why did Scioscia use a catching tandem with Napoli and the weak hitting Mathis?
    Why didn't he use Napoli as his FT catcher?


    Watch the rabbit run.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaseballGM. Show BaseballGM's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Scioscia goes by pitcher and catcher marriages. Now, run rabbit, and keep obscessing on projecting yourself as Varitek.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA


    Federowicz must be salivating at the potential opportunity,
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    Marriages eh. Well, Scioscia musta been one busy JUSTICE OF THE PEACE.
    Mathis caught the whole staff - over a vast amount of IP with each starter - over several years.
    Sounds more like polygamy!

    That, and his quote:
    "I think it's (CERA) an absolute tool to evaluate a catcher's performance"
    doesn't gel well with your "It's solely on the pitcher" - "The catcher has nothing to do with pitching" BS.

    In fact, it defies it altogether.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from FarmFan. Show FarmFan's posts

    Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA

    In Response to Re: On Varitek, Saltalamacchia and the usefulness of catcher’s ERA:
    [QUOTE]And Pedey and Crawford went 0 - 8. Why don't you try to answer Moon's question regarding what a catcher has to hit to compensate for lost ERA. You are blinded by one poor bat out of nine. Tek's "one positive" - of getting more out of a pitching staff than his counterparts - profoundly affects team win-loss records. That outweighs all else. Take off UR blinders. The " few who would agree" just two years ago have become the multitude. You are bringing up the rear.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    The fact some fans still cling to the "pre-2007" image of Tek doesn't help us move forward as a team.  Anyone, given the opportunity can learn what Tek has over the years.  I agree we have a lot of players not hitting which just showcases Teks weaknesses even further and is the exact reason why he was demoted in favor of Victor.  The reason I don't rag on players like Crawford is because we all know he will recover, Tek just keeps getting worse.  

    Moonslavs question is a hypothetical view in an attempt to find a glimpse of worth left in Teks game.  Finding a real solution behind the plate has been Theo's primary weakness since becomming GM. 
     

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