once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    should have been out 2 batters sooner.same problem with doubrount yesterday.
     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy stilleatsworms. Show MikeNagy stilleatsworms's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    True but skat managers have foresight. Que up your wickepedis
     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    In Response to once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter : and once again you wait to post until after the result...this is why you get laughed at...I mean given it was two batters late you had time to create a thread stating what he should do...weird that you waited until AFTER the result...weird  
    Posted by thepeskypole6


    do you agree that he should have taken him out.bring thomas in to pitch to lefty pena.bard was all over the place.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from midnight. Show midnight's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    Also at this time of year, Bobby V is still trying to figure out what he has.  How do players respond in certain situations...  It may result in a loss here or there, but truly understanding the capabilities of the team is important.  Knowing if Bard can truly give you 100 pitches each time out is important because it will eventually tax the bullpen if he can't.  While the result today was bad, I would hope that the manager gained more insight into the team.  We all freak out over each game, but a manager has to look at the full season, and understanding the full abilities of his players will be a major part of how he can plan for the full season.  
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    should have been out 2 batters sooner.same problem with doubrount yesterday.
    Posted by udontnojack
    You must be auditioning for the vacant BOSOX1941 chair.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    Also at this time of year, Bobby V is still trying to figure out what he has.  How do players respond in certain situations...  It may result in a loss here or there, but truly understanding the capabilities of the team is important.  Knowing if Bard can truly give you 100 pitches each time out is important because it will eventually tax the bullpen if he can't.  While the result today was bad, I would hope that the manager gained more insight into the team.  We all freak out over each game, but a manager has to look at the full season, and understanding the full abilities of his players will be a major part of how he can plan for the full season.  
    Posted by midnight


       Whoa, it may result in a loss here or there. Bobby V, I thought, was the anti-Francona, a manager knew a game in April was just as important as in September. Now you say he was experimenting, I don't get it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    The guy Bard faced was Longoria, who was 0 for 3 and had struck out twice against Bard, so leaving him in was reasonable.

    Also worth noting, the Sox never scored a run in 9 innings, so most of this loss is on the hitters. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mthomas43. Show mthomas43's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    Anybody got any confidence in this bull pen?  Neither does Bobby V.  Damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from michaelsjr. Show michaelsjr's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    going to be hard to pin this 1-0 loss on Bobby V leaving Bard in.  Sure, he looked done before he let the one run in, but a batter puts the ball in play and the inning could have been over.  this game was not about how the sox lost, but what a gem Shields pitched.  props to him for the shut out.  bard had a excellent outing as well.  great pitching duel.  i know it is a loss, but it was a good game.  our 2012 outlook is looking better and better.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    Why  can't Grady Little or Bobby Valentine use a lawn mower ?


    Neither one knows how to pull the starter.

    Hey, today was just well pitched by Shields, we can't blame Bobby or really, anyone else.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    should have been out 2 batters sooner.same problem with doubrount yesterday.
    Posted by udontnojack


    Tito left starters in much too long all the time so this is nothing new.  The thing that worries me is how Bard will mature as a starter.  7 BB is a lot for any starting pitcher, so I hope he doesn't become another Miller.  Lets also give Shields credit for pitching better.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    Also at this time of year, Bobby V is still trying to figure out what he has.  How do players respond in certain situations...  It may result in a loss here or there, but truly understanding the capabilities of the team is important.  Knowing if Bard can truly give you 100 pitches each time out is important because it will eventually tax the bullpen if he can't.  While the result today was bad, I would hope that the manager gained more insight into the team.  We all freak out over each game, but a manager has to look at the full season, and understanding the full abilities of his players will be a major part of how he can plan for the full season.  
    Posted by midnight


    If VAL leaves spring training not knowing what he has ???? The only thing  Val is trying to figure out is who to back stab next !!!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    All and all it was a really dumb move. Bard has never started games professionally before this season. He was over 100 pitches in a hot day game. I am not sure he should not have pulled Bard before he pitched to Pena, but once he lost Pena so quickly it was time to pull Bard. It was a gut move and those seldom work out. In some ways BV was lucky that Bard so wild that he walked Longoria, he could have easily missed in the zone and taken Bard deep.

    OTOH, it is hard to win a game with 0 runs scored.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    In Response to once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter : Tito left starters in much too long all the time so this is nothing new.  The thing that worries me is how Bard will mature as a starter.  7 BB is a lot for any starting pitcher, so I hope he doesn't become another Miller.  Lets also give Shields credit for pitching better.
    Posted by craze4sox


    But he gave up 3 walks in the last inning.  You can't leave the SP in there too long and then blame the SP for not pitching well.

    Like so many other mangerial decisions, one move doesn't usually ring the death knell, but it was nonetheless a bad move.  When a guy has thrown a career high number of pitches, and has walked two guys to load the bases, you have to know that he is likely done for the day.

    There is no one on the planet, including Valentine, that doesn't accept this as a bad move.
     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    Nay, Bobby made the right call sending Bard out there for the 7th. Stop looking for a scape-goat for playing baseball the right way.  We will have far more problems winning games if our starters remain 5-6 inning guys.

    BTW maybe you did not notice the opposing teams starter ... he nearly had a CG and shut down our offense.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter : But he gave up 3 walks in the last inning.  You can't leave the SP in there too long and then blame the SP for not pitching well. Like so many other mangerial decisions, one move doesn't usually ring the death knell, but it was nonetheless a bad move.  When a guy has thrown a career high number of pitches, and has walked two guys to load the bases, you have to know that he is likely done for the day. There is no one on the planet, including Valentine, that doesn't accept this as a bad move.
    Posted by Joebreidey


    Joe,
    I didn't see the game and thus can't speak to this particular situation. From what I've read...We lost the game 1-0 and as it turns out the walk to Longoria proved to be the difference in the game. In was still only the top of the 7th and we still had 9 outs to mount a rally...Even had Longoria put it in play. Not sure that even this morning that Valentine will question his motives for leaving Bard in to face Longoria.

    What none of us know is the why behind the non move. Remember that part of the process for Bard proving he's a worthy member of the rotation is to pitch deep in games. In order for him to do so there will be times when he is faced with situations similar to yesterday and hopefully he learned something that he can take into his next start. Losing 1-0 to Shields and the Ray's IMHO isn't something to hang your head over. In the end the kid did his job and did it well. If Bard strings together 4 or 5 starts like yesterday, my guess is the Sox would win most if not all of them.

    Looking forward if we are as a fan base and more importantly the Red Sox management commited to supporting and allowing both Bard and Dobrount to develop into legit ML starters. Like Pedrioa as few years back we can't have a quick hook and it may well cost us a game or two in the process but in the big picture, will serve us well. If we can by years end have both of them giving us both length and quality starts. We will then win more than our share of thier games and come September the few we might lose in the process will benefit the overall team in helping to keep the pen sharp and not over worked as they were last year so the net effect should manifest itself into more wins than losses...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    Well, Bard was left in because there was no Bard to replace him with.  Call it a "Catch 51" instead of a "Catch 22."  For that matter, maybe it's a "Pitch 51."  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    Well, Bard was left in because there was no Bard to replace him with.  Call it a "Catch 51" instead of a "Catch 22."  For that matter, maybe it's a "Pitch 51."  
    Posted by Sheriff-Rojas


    Lack of confidence in the pen I doubt played a role in the decision...My guess is that if the same situation presents itself in a month he still leaves Bard in to face Longoria. If it were a must win game in September, after the 1st batter reaches base in a 0-0 games with his pitch count nearing 100 the pen would already be up and at the ready and the 1st sign of trouble he pulls him...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    This loss is on the offense.  The team got shut out (with a little help from the home plate umpire).  lmao.  Even if Tampa doesnt score we are still playing.  
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter


    Great game by "Big Game" James and the 500 th win for Maddon.
    We won three of four not bad against the Tampa staff.

    Leaving Bard in showed a couple of things; V had used Morales heavy in the previous games, he was looking for a strikeout no magic left in Bard's arm.
    Greatfully Thomas got an out--he would not have been my choice.

    He didn't have the confidence to use Melacon to get an out. I think this is an area they could prep Melancon for---a one batter out no matter what the inning.


     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter

    In Response to Re: once again bobby v waits to long to take out the starter:
    Great game by "Big Game" James and the 500 th win for Maddon. We won three of four not bad against the Tampa staff. Leaving Bard in showed a couple of things; V had used Morales heavy in the previous games, he was looking for a strikeout no magic left in Bard's arm. Greatfully Thomas got an out--he would not have been my choice. He didn't have the confidence to use Melacon to get an out. I think this is an area they could prep Melancon for---a one batter out no matter what the inning.
    Posted by MadMc44

    I agree Mad...Melancon can't be this bad he needs to get his confidence back and start helping the team.  He did have 20 saves last year.
     
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