Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    As many posters here stated back in June, Bard should have been shut down in June. There is nothing to prove. He should have gone to Ft. Myers to do one thing, getting his velocity (if possible) back up to the mid 90's. Instead they keep bringing out a pitcher who is looking a lot like Steve Blass or Rick Ankiel. A quote from Bobby V:

    “He says he really wants to pitch,” Sox manager Bobby Valentine said. “We’re really trying to get him where he could have some kind of good feeling during this season at the end. It’s tough.”

    Didn't the Sox listen to Bard in spring training when he said he wanted to start? How did that work out.

    He's not going to prove anything over these last 10 games and will probably make things worse. Shut him down now!

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

     

    Shutting him down wouldnt make him a better pitcher for next season.  He is already messed up starting last august of 2011!!

    Maybe Boston should have shut him down last August, not today!!

     

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    Giving him the chance to be a starter was a big mistake.  I just hope in spring training he can work on his mechanics and become the good bullpen pitcher that we remember.  Although, he wasn't the only pitcher that was horrible last night.  In addition to the errors committed none of the relief pitchers were very good. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jarretfromportsmouth. Show jarretfromportsmouth's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    Daniel Bard...met winter ball!  he better play this off season.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from stan17. Show stan17's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    He has no business being on a major league roster the way he's pitching.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    Once again, I have concerns about how the Red Sox handle problems with players.

    They let Beckett continue with his terrible pre-game warm up routine when he was getting clobbered in the first inning game after game and now they are pitching Bard because Bard "wants to pitch"?

    Come on, who is in charge on Yawkey Way?  In my business, when things are not working well, you sometimes need to make adjustments and changes.  Are they not paying people to make such decisions?

    Right now Bard continuing to pitch is only making things more difficult for later on.  Is it thought that if he has a clean inning one day before this season ends that all of the entire season will be forgotten in this kid's head?  This guy may be ruined forever after the way the Red Sox handled him this season.

    He should have been shut down by sending him to Ft Myers in June to rest, relax and get himself back together.  If nothing else, he needed to get completely away from the glare of the Boston spotlights (and, Pawtucket was certainly not the place).  Then he should have been brought back up through the ranks just like they do with a pitcher who has had an arm injury.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Beckett had a quality start last night by giving up only three runs in six innings and giving his team a chance to win. He was doing that in his last month here. Dodgers are content with him thus far.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I am not surprised that Beckett is pitching better for the Dodgers.  I expect him to be a decent pitcher for them next season also.  Not a # 1 starter but probably # 4 or #5.  They will  be happy if he continues to win games. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to FenwayJimmy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Beckett had a quality start last night by giving up only three runs in six innings and giving his team a chance to win. He was doing that in his last month here. Dodgers are content with him thus far.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from charliedarling. Show charliedarling's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    Beckett pitching well for the Dodgers does not interest me even one little bit whether it is this year or next year.

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Giving him the chance to be a starter was a big mistake.  I just hope in spring training he can work on his mechanics and become the good bullpen pitcher that we remember.  Although, he wasn't the only pitcher that was horrible last night.  In addition to the errors committed none of the relief pitchers were very good. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    IMO giving him the chance to become a starter wasn't the mistake: it was, first, messing with his mechanics in a futile attempt to make him more durable and second, hanging on to the concept of Daniel Bard the SP WAY too long. It was clear after just a few starts that it wasn't working, yet Cherington forced BV to keep him in the rotation. If you repeat bad mechanics over and over again eventually they will get ingrained to the point that its difficult to reverse the process. Thats where Bard is now. He has a lot of work to do this winter, and the prospects for success are not great. Cherington ruined a very good relief pitcher.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Giving him the chance to be a starter was a big mistake.  I just hope in spring training he can work on his mechanics and become the good bullpen pitcher that we remember.  Although, he wasn't the only pitcher that was horrible last night.  In addition to the errors committed none of the relief pitchers were very good. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    IMO giving him the chance to become a starter wasn't the mistake: it was, first, messing with his mechanics in a futile attempt to make him more durable and second, hanging on to the concept of Daniel Bard the SP WAY too long. It was clear after just a few starts that it wasn't working, yet Cherington forced BV to keep him in the rotation. If you repeat bad mechanics over and over again eventually they will get ingrained to the point that its difficult to reverse the process. Thats where Bard is now. He has a lot of work to do this winter, and the prospects for success are not great. Cherington ruined a very good relief pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Was it reported Cherrington forced BV to keep Bard in the rotation, pumpsie?

     
  15. This post has been removed.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Giving him the chance to be a starter was a big mistake.  I just hope in spring training he can work on his mechanics and become the good bullpen pitcher that we remember.  Although, he wasn't the only pitcher that was horrible last night.  In addition to the errors committed none of the relief pitchers were very good. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    IMO giving him the chance to become a starter wasn't the mistake: it was, first, messing with his mechanics in a futile attempt to make him more durable and second, hanging on to the concept of Daniel Bard the SP WAY too long. It was clear after just a few starts that it wasn't working, yet Cherington forced BV to keep him in the rotation. If you repeat bad mechanics over and over again eventually they will get ingrained to the point that its difficult to reverse the process. Thats where Bard is now. He has a lot of work to do this winter, and the prospects for success are not great. Cherington ruined a very good relief pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Was it reported Cherrington forced BV to keep Bard in the rotation, pumpsie?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    It was. I cannot document it now because that is stuff that happened back in April and May. Its an active topic on Sawxheads (where, according to some, l was banned). Maybe some of those guys have a reference that I can get and post here.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to Soxchemistry's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I didn't realise that Cherrington was the pitching coach.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Do you really think that the pitching coach makes those decisions?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to J-BAY's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to pumpsie-green's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Giving him the chance to be a starter was a big mistake.  I just hope in spring training he can work on his mechanics and become the good bullpen pitcher that we remember.  Although, he wasn't the only pitcher that was horrible last night.  In addition to the errors committed none of the relief pitchers were very good. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    IMO giving him the chance to become a starter wasn't the mistake: it was, first, messing with his mechanics in a futile attempt to make him more durable and second, hanging on to the concept of Daniel Bard the SP WAY too long. It was clear after just a few starts that it wasn't working, yet Cherington forced BV to keep him in the rotation. If you repeat bad mechanics over and over again eventually they will get ingrained to the point that its difficult to reverse the process. Thats where Bard is now. He has a lot of work to do this winter, and the prospects for success are not great. Cherington ruined a very good relief pitcher.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Was it reported Cherrington forced BV to keep Bard in the rotation, pumpsie?

     

    [/QUOTE]


    It was. I cannot document it now because that is stuff that happened back in April and May. Its an active topic on Sawxheads (where, according to some, l was banned). Maybe some of those guys have a reference that I can get and post here.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Not necessary, pumpsie, Wasn't questioning you in any way, just hadn't heard or read it.

    I think Bard needed more than a few starts to get a true read on it, for all involved. He may have even turned a corner if they stayed with him longer. Nevertheless, it's been decided he's a reliever and hope he returns to form.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    Not necessary, pumpsie, Wasn't questioning you in any way, just hadn't heard or read it.

    I think Bard needed more than a few starts to get a true read on it, for all involved. He may have even turned a corner if they stayed with him longer. Nevertheless, it's been decided he's a reliever and hope he returns to form.

    No, its not necessary, but I asked over there for any links that support this notion anyway. Always good to back up what you have said, if you can, with facts.

     
  20. This post has been removed.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    Here is some evidence that it was Cherington, over the objections of Valentine, who insisted that Bard remain in the starting rotation during spring training. My thanks to Elktonnick at Sawxheads, where, according to Wally the Braindead, I have been banned, for this article:

     

    Daniel Bard: Is Boston Red Sox Hurler a Starter or a Reliever?By DJ Rallo(Senior Analyst) on March 25, 2012


    [b]It seems as though Boston Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington and manager Bobby Valentine have reached a disagreement about a key player to the 2012 Red Sox campaign.

    According to CBS Sports' official website, it seems as though Cherington wishes to keep Daniel Bard in the starting rotation following some rocky spring outings, while Valentine wants Bard as a setup man for Andrew Bailey.[/b]


    The early initiative this winter had been to revert Bard back into a starting pitcher to take the mound as the fourth man in the starting rotation. However, due to Bard's struggles in his previous endeavors as a starter, many questioned whether or not he could handle this position, even with more experience under his belt this time around.

    During his first tenure as a starter in 2007 at the minor league level, Bard posted a 7.05 ERA between two levels. He also struggled with walking batters as he allowed 78 batters on base in 75 innings pitched. Disastrous results led to the idea of placing Bard in the bullpen, which had been a complete success for the Red Sox since 2009.

    Throughout spring training, Bard has started four games, serving a 1-2 record with a 7.11 ERA in 12.2 innings pitched. He also has walked 10 batters out and struck out six. While showing signs of sheer dominance in certain points of his outings, his relapses into obscurity have been far more noticeable. As a result, Valentine has grown incredibly critical of Bard's position on the team this upcoming season.

    Valentine, who expected Bard's rocky transition to be flawless, has been upset with Bard sparsely using his changeup. He has also gone out of his way to publicly express his displeasure with Bard's performance thus far, while Cherington shows a Theo Epstein-like quality of keeping faith in his players despite early struggles.


    Where does Daniel Bard belong?
    Starting Rotation - There is no other option
    Bullpen - Keep him where he's proven to be effective
    Undecided
    Submit Vote vote to see results
    Where does Daniel Bard belong? Starting Rotation - There is no other option23.1%Bullpen - Keep him where he's proven to be effective64.8%Undecided12.0%Total votes: 108

    When previously asked about Bard's position on the squad, Valentine claimed that, "I'm not there yet," in terms of his decision to place Bard in the pen or in the rotation. Clearly, he isn't sold on the fact that Bard can expand his pitches and stretch out his consistency past two innings, which are essential to being an effective starting pitcher.

    Debates have spiraled back and forth throughout spring training, and it can not be fair to say that Bard is at full responsibility for how these past few weeks have panned out.

    Struggling with Valentine's antics throughout several interviews on top of not even knowing where he is going to pitch from this season, Bard's plate is certainly full. He is being pushed quite harshly, especially in terms of his changeup, as he expressed in a recent interview with WEEI, saying, “It doesn’t matter what my changeup is if my two best pitches aren’t fully ready. So I really went into this last [start] wanting to establish my fastball in the zone and use the slider as my put-away pitch.’’

    While speculation runs wild for now, it is safe to say we will have an answer by Opening Day, but where will he play?

    In the eyes of this analyst, it strikes me as odd that Bard still is even being considered as a starting pitcher at this point. Of course, performances in spring training don't truly reflect what is to occur in the actual MLB season, but why would Cherington tamper with such a strong weapon of the Red Sox bullpen?

    Whether you like Bobby Valentine or not, one philosophy that can not be disagreed upon is one he states all the time: teams can't win without a very solid bullpen.

    Stripping Bard from the bullpen is damaging enough. Mark Melancon and Bailey can be incredibly effective, but they remain question marks until proven otherwise. Bard has proved he can handle late-inning situations and he has adapted incredibly well in his position. Why change that up?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    How is Bailey unproven as a RP/Closer?  That's absurd....his track record in MLB is as a slam dunk, elite, all star, stud performer.


    The only issue has been his health.

     

     

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from pumpsie-green. Show pumpsie-green's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    In response to SonicsMonksLyresVicars' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    How is Bailey unproven as a RP/Closer?  That's absurd....his track record in MLB is as a slam dunk, elite, all star, stud performer.


    The only issue has been his health.

     

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Thats been the question mark to which the article refers, I believe.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Once and for all, Shut Bard Down!

    I have no idea what is wrong with Bard.  Mental , physical, or both ?    I don't understand how becoming  a starter could make him lose so much velocity from his fastball ,  and make him lose command of all his pitches.  Might just as well shut him down for the year , and start over again next year. 

     

Share