One Wonders...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Middlebrooks. Show Middlebrooks's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

     The non moves indicate the confidence the FO has in the talent, a confidence not shared by some of the posters around here. The excessive use of the DL doesn't allow any evaluator to see the holes in the "regular" line-up, as they simply haven't been on the field together. Adding Ells and Crawford would make almost any team better, so why wouldn't the Sox benefit as well?
     Another mis-conception is everygame counts the same, it's simply not true.The fact of the matter is, if your hanging around closely in August, you've got a good chance to be in the mix, and with the extra wild card, well, it's simply untilled soil. We won't know by any review of past performance, what fruit that extra acreage will produce.
     In the sprit of positivity, a thank you is due to Pike in this thread, good job, more of the same is always welcome.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

    1)      if these thoughts of forced re-construction are really thought out.  
       
       I recall the anger of paying some of Lugo’s contract to get rid of him – and several others as well.  But there is a strand of thought here that says “unload the fat cat’s and their contracts.”  

       Pray tell how?  If Henry and Co. should dump the players, there is very little they could do in re-building because they would still be paying huge amounts of cash in the remainder of those very contracts.  How would they get rid of all the problem children in the gang and not still owe exorbitant  amounts on huge contracts? 

    Doesn’t make sense to me to dig a whole deeper and deeper … and somehow think the ledgers will be clear to make new responsible decisions that you all would be happy with.  Don’t try to be dishonest about this.  There is no genie in a lamp that will honor your/our wishes to dump the core of $170+/- million a year and start fresh.  

         Even if we only got rid of your favorite problem children and their contracts, which would not truly relieve the financial burden we are all so well aware of.
    Your ire and sensible thinking doesn’t qualify as valid currency for the next step you propose, never mind taking care of you’re the old problems you so commonly address.

    Nice thread again, SinceYaz. 

    I'd like to respond to your first point. I certainly understand your position and was upset we paid nearly all of Youk's contract for him to bolster someone else's roster. It hurt more when Middlebrooks, AGon and Papi then got hurt.

    There are, however, circumstances where dealing a big contract and paying part of their deal makes some sense. Let's take everyone's favorite big contract player, Carl Crawford. He's owed about $100M over the next 5 years. Our choice is to stick with him and hope he gives us some value. Let's say he plays like a guy making 410M a year over the next 5 years, in a sense, we lose about $10M a year for 5 years. Now, if we pay another team $10M a year to take CC and get nothing in return, we break even with the above scenario. If we get a good prospect, we could do better, if CC does worse than a 410M a year player over the next 5 years, we'd do better, and if we take the $10M savings and spend it wisely we could do much better. This is the idea behind trying to move on with some players.

    Another factor with the Crawford scenario is the fact that since we signed him, our OF prospects value has risen greatly. We can likely soon replace CC from within the system at minimal cost financially, or we could replace him with a guy like Cody Ross this year at $3M and have the remaining $7M to improve another high need area(s). 

    I can see the flip side as well. We could pay another team $10M to have CC regain his form and play well, while our prospects flounder or the next Cody Ross turns out to be a bust. It's a gamble, as are all trades. Sometimes gambles have to be taken.


     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

    I don't have the same outlook on the team as those in this thread for a variety of reasons I have outlined elsewhere, and I think there are some misconceptions in this thread about "positivity" (example: I think of fans more in terms of passion than expecting them to be positive at all times) but having said that, I think it's cool to have a totally positive thread about the team in the forum so I'll just say, well done folks for sticking to your more positive views and backing them up. There is some good stuff in this thread that goes beyond baseball in the "count your blessings"/living the right way category. 

    Almost makes me think some of you should have your own forum that is not as wide open as this one so you can stay focused on the kind of tone you like, moreso than what is possible here....perhaps you do. :) If i see positive threads here like this one without any critical comments on the team I'll make a point of respecting those threads and commenting on other threads that are more my style. To each their own...




     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

    In Response to Re: One Wonders...:
    [QUOTE] The non moves indicate the confidence the FO has in the talent, a confidence not shared by some of the posters around here. The excessive use of the DL doesn't allow any evaluator to see the holes in the "regular" line-up, as they simply haven't been on the field together. Adding Ells and Crawford would make almost any team better, so why wouldn't the Sox benefit as well?  Another mis-conception is everygame counts the same, it's simply not true.The fact of the matter is, if your hanging around closely in August, you've got a good chance to be in the mix, and with the extra wild card, well, it's simply untilled soil. We won't know by any review of past performance, what fruit that extra acreage will produce.  In the sprit of positivity, a thank you is due to Pike in this thread, good job, more of the same is always welcome.
    Posted by Middlebrooks[/QUOTE]

    One smiles at your updated personna, sir.  Not without recognizing the bittersweet reason behind it of course.

    Several baseball thinkers have remarked that getting Ells and CC back now is very much the same as getting two new stars.  In spite of the outlook some have toward the, I tend to agree quite strongly.  

    We are a handful of games away from that 2nd WC opportnity...which I sided with Cody Ross at first when he said he didn't really like it.  His reasoning was simple, the first WC spot might be taken by a team 5 or 6 games better in the standings.  For all that the higher WC team may have accomplished, in a single game it could all be undone.  

    To adapt a change in thought here, he was thinking of playing for the stronger team at the time.   By now, I am glad to have that same opportunity ahead of us that Cody feared.

    Perspective ...

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

    In Response to Re: One Wonders...:
    [QUOTE]1)        if these thoughts of forced re-construction are really thought out.          I recall the anger of paying some of Lugo’s contract to get rid of him – and several others as well.  But there is a strand of thought here that says “unload the fat cat’s and their contracts.”      Pray tell how?  If Henry and Co. should dump the players, there is very little they could do in re-building because they would still be paying huge amounts of cash in the remainder of those very contracts.  How would they get rid of all the problem children in the gang and not still owe exorbitant  amounts on huge contracts?  Doesn’t make sense to me to dig a whole deeper and deeper … and somehow think the ledgers will be clear to make new responsible decisions that you all would be happy with.  Don’t try to be dishonest about this.  There is no genie in a lamp that will honor your/our wishes to dump the core of $170+/- million a year and start fresh.        Even if we only got rid of your favorite problem children and their contracts, which would not truly relieve the financial burden we are all so well aware of. Your ire and sensible thinking doesn’t qualify as valid currency for the next step you propose, never mind taking care of you’re the old problems you so commonly address. Nice thread again, SinceYaz.  I'd like to respond to your first point. I certainly understand your position and was upset we paid nearly all of Youk's contract for him to bolster someone else's roster. It hurt more when Middlebrooks, AGon and Papi then got hurt. There are, however, circumstances where dealing a big contract and paying part of their deal makes some sense. Let's take everyone's favorite big contract player, Carl Crawford. He's owed about $100M over the next 5 years. Our choice is to stick with him and hope he gives us some value. Let's say he plays like a guy making 410M a year over the next 5 years, in a sense, we lose about $10M a year for 5 years. Now, if we pay another team $10M a year to take CC and get nothing in return, we break even with the above scenario. If we get a good prospect, we could do better, if CC does worse than a 410M a year player over the next 5 years, we'd do better, and if we take the $10M savings and spend it wisely we could do much better. This is the idea behind trying to move on with some players. Another factor with the Crawford scenario is the fact that since we signed him, our OF prospects value has risen greatly. We can likely soon replace CC from within the system at minimal cost financially, or we could replace him with a guy like Cody Ross this year at $3M and have the remaining $7M to improve another high need area(s).  I can see the flip side as well. We could pay another team $10M to have CC regain his form and play well, while our prospects flounder or the next Cody Ross turns out to be a bust. It's a gamble, as are all trades. Sometimes gambles have to be taken.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Moon,

      As always you give a fair avenue of thought that is not a rubber stamp of the poster nor an attack or insult.

      You were the first one that sensibly explained the real long term cost of the big contracts of the last few seasons.  Actually, the hamstringing concept you brought up was a tempering thought to my initial excitement.

      Similarly, you make a thought provoking point about how to deal with the CC contract.  I have moved a little from the position of keeping him at all costs (which we really already paid or are under contract to pay) to the consider options.  Our OF prospects have helped considerably in that ...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SinceYaz. Show SinceYaz's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

    In Response to Re: One Wonders...:
    [QUOTE]I don't have the same outlook on the team as those in this thread for a variety of reasons I have outlined elsewhere, and I think there are some misconceptions in this thread about "positivity" (example: I think of fans more in terms of passion than expecting them to be positive at all times) but having said that, I think it's cool to have a totally positive thread about the team in the forum so I'll just say, well done folks for sticking to your more positive views and backing them up. There is some good stuff in this thread that goes beyond baseball in the "count your blessings"/living the right way category.  Almost makes me think some of you should have your own forum that is not as wide open as this one so you can stay focused on the kind of tone you like, moreso than what is possible here....perhaps you do. :) If i see positive threads here like this one without any critical comments on the team I'll make a point of respecting those threads and commenting on other threads that are more my style. To each their own...
    Posted by BostonTrollSpanker[/QUOTE]

    :o)   Glass half full or empty, Spanker!    


          ...and having tasted of many vintages of the Sox before, I appreciate the possibility of this team even yet.  WC 1 & 2 help with the possible fragrance ...
      
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Clamshack. Show Clamshack's posts

    Re: One Wonders...

    TrollSpanker wants a seperate forum for positive fans? Is that what she said. Is she a Red Sox fan? Unbelievable. How about a seperate forum for non-Red Sox fans?
     

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