Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyLegend. Show DeweyLegend's posts

    Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Given the status of the current market if we have a budget of say 14 million for David Ortiz ...would have rather had say Oswalt and Madson?

    Oswalt could be had for 7 million and Madson would have signed for 8 with Boston because it would have been a better situation.  

    Lackey 15.9 Dice-K 10.33 Jenks 6     32.5 of dead money this year 

    Ortiz at 14?  Is it worth it?  What about a pen of Melancon/ Bailey / Madson / Morales/ Albers?  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Dice should be back by July.  Where are you seeing the $7M figure from Oswalt?That's below his latest asking price.

    The Ortiz situation has it's pros and cons.  Is he worth $14M?  Absolutely.  Could that money have been better allocated on this roster?  Absolutely.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyLegend. Show DeweyLegend's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Oswalt is asking 8 at the moment and he can be had for 7 ..watch 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Given where things are now, I'm pretty sure BC would like a do-over on the Ortiz arbitration offer.  But at the time it was the right thing to do, and so it is what he has to deal with going forward.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Here's a thought.

    Many teams backed away from offering Papi over $10M, because they'd lose the 2 draft picks (Papi was typ A). If we trade him, they'd keep their picks. We might have to pay some of his salary, but I don't think it would be very much, and we could get a prospect in return.

    We use the saving to get anyone but Oswalt or Madsen. (Guys, just because these two are the best pitchers not signed yet, does not mean we need to overpay for them.)

    I'm not sure what teams need a DH that badly, and it looks like Prince is still an option with his price tag probably falling, so maybe the idea is groundless.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Madson signed. 

    Oswalt at $8 million could very well be the bargain of the off-season.

    Ortiz at $14 million and losing a prospect (even if it is a PTBNL) would not be attractive to any team that felt that Ortiz at $10 million and a draft pick was not attractive (the team loses one draft pick, the second draft pick is supplemental round and is just an additional pick for the Sox that comes from no team).

    Sox will NOT trade Ortiz for PTBNL or some low-level prospect, even though it makes financial sense.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    Given the status of the current market if we have a budget of say 14 million for David Ortiz ...would have rather had say Oswalt and Madson? Oswalt could be had for 7 million and Madson would have signed for 8 with Boston because it would have been a better situation.   Lackey 15.9 Dice-K 10.33 Jenks 6     32.5 of dead money this year  Ortiz at 14?  Is it worth it?  What about a pen of Melancon/ Bailey / Madson / Morales/ Albers?  
    Posted by DeweyLegend


    Zero chance Madson would have signed with Boston.  Zero.  Nil.  Nada.  Nyet. Un-Nay.  Snowball in the Netherworld.  Get the picture?

    By the time Madson's price came down, the Sox had already acquire Andrew Bailey.  Madson wants a chance to close and earn closer money, which he would not have gotten in Boston.  He was well aware of this, and went to one of the few remaining closer opportunities left.  He took Cincy to cash in BIG in 2013.  The Sox had zero chance to get him for short money...
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickerd2. Show rickerd2's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Couldn't Papi block any trades with his 10 and 5 rights?  He would have to agree or get some form of compensation to allow any trade.  It'd be tricky.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    Madson signed.  Oswalt at $8 million could very well be the bargain of the off-season. Ortiz at $14 million and losing a prospect (even if it is a PTBNL) would not be attractive to any team that felt that Ortiz at $10 million and a draft pick was not attractive (the team loses one draft pick, the second draft pick is supplemental round and is just an additional pick for the Sox that comes from no team). Sox will NOT trade Ortiz for PTBNL or some low-level prospect, even though it makes financial sense.
    Posted by parhunter1


    It might make financial sesne to offer him a 2 year $20mill deal simply to reduce his AAV by $4-5mill.

    It does create a similar problem next season, however...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from garyhow. Show garyhow's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    Madson signed.  Oswalt at $8 million could very well be the bargain of the off-season. Ortiz at $14 million and losing a prospect (even if it is a PTBNL) would not be attractive to any team that felt that Ortiz at $10 million and a draft pick was not attractive (the team loses one draft pick, the second draft pick is supplemental round and is just an additional pick for the Sox that comes from no team). Sox will NOT trade Ortiz for PTBNL or some low-level prospect, even though it makes financial sense.
    Posted by parhunter1

    Agreed. Oswalt may be the guy left standing at the alter for RS. His landing spots are drying up NYY-No / Tex-No / St.Louis & Boston 2 teams left standing and STL w/ Wainright coming back might not have need. Could see RS get a real bargain = Incentive deal based on starts sounds about right. No way RS trade Papi, don't know who came upo w/ that, but that has about as much a chance as snow on 4th of July.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now? : It might make financial sesne to offer him a 2 year $20mill deal simply to reduce his AAV by $4-5mill. It does create a similar problem next season, however...
    Posted by notin


    That is why I rather to see Papi to sign for 13 to 14 million dollars just for a year, and let him walk after the 2012 season. It will be a bit financial mess for the 2012 season, but not for the 2013 season!!!  How we all know that Oswalt is able to pitch for the whole season.  I wouldnt gamble on signing him for 8 million dollars a year.  I rather to gamble on Oswalt to drop his asking price!!!  
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    Oswalt is asking 8 at the moment and he can be had for 7 ..watch 
    Posted by DeweyLegend


    With few remaining free agent pitchers of any quality still available that may drive the price up for Oswalt. We'll see !!
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DeweyLegend. Show DeweyLegend's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    I am just saying if the budget really is that tight why on earth blow 14 million on Ortiz?  

    Don't make the Melancon trade use Youk more of a DH with Lowrie - sign a Kuroda / Oswalt type and a solid pen arm. 

    I love the Melancon trade but I also had no idea we could not get 5 million together for a player.  They may also just be saying this and waiting to make a trade in July.  or if Bard fails till say June ... patch through till July when Dice K comes back and put Bard back in the pen. 

    I like this situation - sign Oswalt screw it make it happen.  
    Beckett 
    Lester 
    Buchholz 
    Oswalt 
    Bard 
    get 130 starts out of them    10-15 from Dice K  (second half )

    Miller / Dubront / Aceves / Silva give us 15 or so 

    In Aug throw Bard back in the pen  Bailey / Bard / Melancon / Morales / Aceves 

    that is pretty tough for the 7th 8th 9th 

    I know it is a perfect world but Ogando ran out of gas for Texas and went back to the pen at the end and that could be perfect for Bard 2012 and 2013 he may be able to carry a full load 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mlgvt48. Show mlgvt48's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Yes Ortiz' salary is hurting the Sox but so are Lackey's, Dice's and Jenk's. The big problem with Papi is he cannot play the field which makes him less valuable especially in inter-league games (which I happen to hate). They should have offered him a longer term contract like $8-10M per year for 2-3 years and lowered his 2012 salary hit.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    but if the sox knew things would be tight with the luxury tax, why didnt they figure that out when they offered Papi arb???  with youk able to play 3b or 1b, we had enough power to rotate the DH and save that cash....maddening....
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    but if the sox knew things would be tight with the luxury tax, why didnt they figure that out when they offered Papi arb???  with youk able to play 3b or 1b, we had enough power to rotate the DH and save that cash....maddening....
    Posted by georom4


    Would Papi be a Yankee today if he wasn't offered arbitration? The bashing of the FO in here would be deafening if that happened and I could list for you who would be leading the riot.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Ortiz signing was part production-part Sox PR move. By keeping him in the fold, it would cushion the roster without for the first time in many, many years Tek, Wakefield, and the loss of a fan favorite of sorts--Papelbon. The team's identity and link to 2004/2007 is getting smaller. Ortiz is the people's choice award winner, and that ultimately was a deciding factor. I am in agreement that the needs weren't fufilled and the out-of-the-box possibilities were shut down with his signing. The fact is that they could have rotated many at DH and allowed for a 3b-DH platoon among others.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Camelwalk. Show Camelwalk's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?:
    In Response to Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now? : Would Papi be a Yankee today if he wasn't offered arbitration? The bashing of the FO in here would be deafening if that happened and I could list for you who would be leading the riot.
    Posted by UticaClub


    No he wouldn't the Yankees don't want him.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz Arbitration...hurting us now?

    Offer Papi $12.5M base with incentive to $15M in 2012. 2013 club option year at $8M with incentives and a buyout of $1.5M. That makes his tax cost for 2012 only $7M (12.5 + 1.5/2)
     
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