Ortiz shut down.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to bobbysu's comment:

    Ted Williams played Leftfield until he was 40. If DH was around would have played for the Sox until 50. I have and always will hate the DH. No strategy baseball.



    I have and always will hate the DH. No strategy baseball.

    in someways  is there not  more strategy

    most times changing the pitcher in the NL is automatic when it' his turn to bat

    same with sacrificing earlier in the game when the # 9 hitter comes up

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    All teams have injuries. All fans decry them.  Sox fans are unique in that we blame the injured athlete. Ortiz suffered a legitimate injury. It takes time to heal , sometimes more time than we like.  Patience is a virtue . Don't overreact to everything.  Ortiz has a special place in Red Sox history.  He should not be denigrated 




    When you're right you're right.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    All teams have injuries. All fans decry them.  Sox fans are unique in that we blame the injured athlete. Ortiz suffered a legitimate injury. It takes time to heal , sometimes more time than we like.  Patience is a virtue . Don't overreact to everything.  Ortiz has a special place in Red Sox history.  He should not be denigrated 




    I agree with most of what you say. I don't have any problem with the contract they gave Ortiz. I don't love that it was 2 years but there are stipulations to that second year. Let's face it. Ortiz is a fan favorite. You would be hard pressed to find a true fan that legitimately does not like Big Papi.  I am not thinking he's going to add much in terms of stats to this year's team..but no one can question that he brings something else to the table. If the Sox want to give him a "golden parachute" contract then so be it. That's their choice. But..let's at least be honest and call it what it is. I think the problem most have with Ortiz isn't with Ortiz at all..but rather a front office who hasn't always been up front with the fans on most things and likes to paint rosy pictures where there aren't any. ( i.e. the famous "sellout streak")

    I don't think the Red Sox have been honest about the Ortiz injury from day one. First..we heard it was a sprain..then we heard Achilles tendonitis..sounds reasonable..now we are hearing there was a tear in his Achilles. In any event..if all Ortiz has is a little inflammation then he should play through the pain. If it is something more serious..then the Sox should be honest.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to carnie's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    All teams have injuries. All fans decry them.  Sox fans are unique in that we blame the injured athlete. Ortiz suffered a legitimate injury. It takes time to heal , sometimes more time than we like.  Patience is a virtue . Don't overreact to everything.  Ortiz has a special place in Red Sox history.  He should not be denigrated 

     




    When you're right you're right.

     



    I'm always right. There was one time when I thought I was wrong , but I was mistaken.  The only problem is that I have developed bursitis from patting myself on the back. 

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    If we didnt care about things that did not directly affect us then the forum wouldn't be necessary would it?

    Why not care about the money? Why not talk about it? Why did you start the thread, why do you care about Ortiz being shut down? Does it have anything to do with you?

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    Still fun to talk about....  a lot of good fans treat a team as if it were their own. Ortiz would not even be here if it were my team.  Nothing wrong with feeling that way.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh



    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to msobstinate99's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    WHY DO YOU CARE ITS NOT COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKET?

     




     

    It should go without saying that "of course it matters!"

    Why else would the Sox dump A-Gon in order to unload the Crawford and Beckett contracts.  Freeing up 1/4 BILLION mattered!  Tying up $26 MILLION for a 2 yr. deal mattered!  We would / could have gone after another legit DH or other with that money.  If you hadn't noticed, this organization has finally started to realize that indiscriminately throwing money at problems does not necessarily solve the problem, and always creates greater problems.  Have we learned nothing????

    Time for another wake up call.  Those other options are now gone.....

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    you're on a roll today, gale:)

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to msobstinate99's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    WHY DO YOU CARE ITS NOT COMING OUT OF YOUR POCKET?

     




     

    It should go without saying that "of course it matters!"

    Why else would the Sox dump A-Gon in order to unload the Crawford and Beckett contracts.  Freeing up 1/4 BILLION mattered!  Tying up $26 MILLION for a 2 yr. deal mattered!  We would / could have gone after another legit DH or other with that matter.  If you hadn't noticed, this organization has finally started to realize that indiscriminately throwing money at problems does not necessarily solve the problem, and always creates greater problems.  Have we learned nothing????

    Time for another wake up call.  Those other options are now gone.....



    a quarter billion over 7 years though! no harm in giving out that contract to ortiz because it was a 2 year deal. comparing it to the hundred million dollar contracts over 6+ years we gave to CC and A-gon is just stupid.. besides, we're in a bridge mode anyway and there is about 80Mil tied up next season.. hardly enough to cry over the 13Mil per we gave to papi.

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to J-BAY's comment:

    you're on a roll.today, gale:)

     



    Having fun.   Can't wait for opening day. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    All teams have injuries. All fans decry them.  Sox fans are unique in that we blame the injured athlete. Ortiz suffered a legitimate injury. It takes time to heal , sometimes more time than we like.  Patience is a virtue . Don't overreact to everything.  Ortiz has a special place in Red Sox history.  He should not be denigrated 




    exactly.....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

     




     

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal... Borderline lunacy!  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size, with that injury!!!  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

     




     

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal... Borderline lunacy!  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size, with that injury!!!  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 



    the issue wasn't their annual salary.... it was their annual salary X 7 that put us in a hole. Having so many players being paid so much for such a long time was the issue. Paying a few players that much for a few years isn't a problem.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

     




     

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal borderline lunacy.  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size.  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 



    I am not suggesting that he is not being overpaid.  But many , if not most , in baseball are overpaid. That is just the way it is.  What I am saying is that David Ortiz is deserving of special consideration from the Sox management and the Sox fans.   There are a lot of other things that we could complain about.   Besides , Ortiz still has the potential to contribute more to the team than several others that we have signed over the next two years. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

     

     

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal... Borderline lunacy!  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size, with that injury!!!  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 


    the issue wasn't their annual salary.... it was their annual salary X 7 that put us in a hole. Having so many players being paid so much for such a long time was the issue. Paying a few players that much for a few years isn't a problem.




    I definitely agree that the length of the contracts makes a HUGE difference!  I agree with you guys there.  The "good will" expenditure also makes good sense!

    These contracts do add up though???

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    Starting to think it was a mistake to re-sign him. He belongs on NYY.

     

    Aging.

     

    Aging and with ligaments as supple as dried rubber bands.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wolfpack13. Show Wolfpack13's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    Great point PINESTRIPEZAC... I'm tired of hearing all of the "strategy" in the NL without DH. Even if I concede that point I'm here to watch players not managers. Here's what drives me nuts in NL... 2 out double by 7th hitter in 5th inning or so, 8th hitter comes up and is walked to face the pitcher. It stinks. Not to mention the 2-3 sac bunts you gotta watch a game. Spare me. I'd rather see a DH hit then a pitcher any day.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal borderline lunacy.  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size.  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 

     



    I am not suggesting that he is not being overpaid.  But many , if not most , in baseball are overpaid. That is just the way it is.  What I am saying is that David Ortiz is deserving of special consideration from the Sox management and the Sox fans.   There are a lot of other things that we could complain about.   Besides , Ortiz still has the potential to contribute more to the team than several others that we have signed over the next two years. 




    I've taken it under consideration counselor :)

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    "How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization! How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole. Bargaining from a position of weakness? We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts. It was time to start over, & make smart deals. Papi was pure PR & emotion. "

    It was definitely largely a PR move, but IMO, it was one that was needed. After the 2011 collapse, then the last place finish in 2012, the last thing the Red Sox needed was to have the PR nightmare of a Sox icon leaving the team under bad circumstances.

    The FO had the money to pay him after ridding themselves of 3 huge contracts. It's not like paying Papi kept them from signing another player, nor will his two year deal keep them from signing a player they want in the future.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

     

     

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal... Borderline lunacy!  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size, with that injury!!!  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 


    the issue wasn't their annual salary.... it was their annual salary X 7 that put us in a hole. Having so many players being paid so much for such a long time was the issue. Paying a few players that much for a few years isn't a problem.

     




    I definitely agree that the length of the contracts makes a HUGE difference!  I agree with you guys there.  The "good will" expenditure also makes good sense!

     

    These contracts do add up though???



    they also subtract pretty quickly. in a year or 2 POOF! we have a dumptruck load of cash to play with again. If we didn't make the dodger deal we couldn't say that until 2017!

    also, with these short term deals it makes the players easier to move if we need to make room for someone. You can always eat some cash.. you can't eat years off of a contract

     
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