Ortiz shut down.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    in someways is there not more strategy

    most times changing the pitcher in the NL is automatic when it' his turn to bat

    same with sacrificing earlier in the game when the # 9 hitter comes up

     

    There  is a lot more strategy involved in the decisions that an AL manager has to make, IMO.

    Any casual fan can predict the moves that an NL manager is going to make.

    In fact, your idol Bill James did a study on this.

    There is far less variation in strategy in an NL game than there is in an AL game.

     

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal... Borderline lunacy!  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size, with that injury!!!  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 


    the issue wasn't their annual salary.... it was their annual salary X 7 that put us in a hole. Having so many players being paid so much for such a long time was the issue. Paying a few players that much for a few years isn't a problem.

    I definitely agree that the length of the contracts makes a HUGE difference!  I agree with you guys there.  The "good will" expenditure also makes good sense!

     

    These contracts do add up though???


    they also subtract pretty quickly. in a year or 2 POOF! we have a dumptruck load of cash to play with again. If we didn't make the dodger deal we couldn't say that until 2017!

    also, with these short term deals it makes the players easier to move if we need to make room for someone. You can always eat some cash.. you can't eat years off of a contract

    \


    Don't get me wrong fellas...  I've been calling the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett dump the deal of the century!  PURE BRILLIANCE!!!  Something I thought was completely impossible.  Thank God for Magic & The Dodgers!!!!  They now have our headaches!  :)

    The biggest & best part of the deal is dumping the YEARS!  I have loved it since the second I heard it!  I still have to pinch myself sometimes to believe it's still true.

    The biggest problem with the Papi contract?

    WHO WILL BE OUR DH, as we never gave it a thought in the off-season.  Lava?

    This lineup is hardly fearsome without Papi!  WE NEED A BIG DH in this league!  It's tough to see a big comeback for Papi, & so we tread water???  This is not good!

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    GOOD PR WILL NOT BUY US THE RBI's WE WILL DESPERATELY NEED!!!!

     

    ANY WAY YOU SLICE IT, IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM FOR 2013!  & LIKELY 2014??

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    i have no idea why the DH rule isn't universal.... who wants to see a pitcher bat?? an automatic out does nothing but help the other team. Are there any pitchers nowadays who can actually hit? if so then that team can slot them into the DH spot :p

    i just don't see what's to gain from having the pitcher bat. As opposed to having the option of a professional hitter and/or resting guys with a DH. i think the game would be much better if both leagues had a DH.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    With the SR such a questionmark, RUNS SCORED will be a huge factor for this team.  Will the SR likely be better than last year?  NO DOUBT ABOUT IT!  BUT.....  It's going to need to be significantly better to make up for the lost run support with a healthy Papi out of the lineup!

    Lava?

    Ughhh!  :(

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

    In response to dgalehouse's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    but not all teams give a two year deal to an injured old dh

    What a fragile existence. From a curse busting hero to an injured old DH.  How soon we forget.  What a shame. 

    Dgale,

    I generally respect your opinion, but this is rediculous!  Most in Boston still love Papi, but many thought it was crazy to give a seriously injured 36++ old DH a $13 mil / yr., 2 yr. deal... Borderline lunacy!  Overpaying Papi by some $5+ million for a 1 yr. deal was questionable at best, throwing an extra $13 million quarantee in was irresponsible.

    How quickly some forget what the overblown contracts did to this organization!  How quickly some forget how they put us in a hole.  Bargaining from a position of weakness?  We were lucky to dump the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett contracts.  It was time to start over, & make smart deals.  Papi was pure PR & emotion. 

    For the record, I wanted to keep him!!!!  I suggested offering about $7 million for a one year deal.  Quite likely overpaying for an advanced aging DH of that size, with that injury!!!  Still he would not have gotten that on the free market. 


    the issue wasn't their annual salary.... it was their annual salary X 7 that put us in a hole. Having so many players being paid so much for such a long time was the issue. Paying a few players that much for a few years isn't a problem.

    I definitely agree that the length of the contracts makes a HUGE difference!  I agree with you guys there.  The "good will" expenditure also makes good sense!

     

    These contracts do add up though???


    they also subtract pretty quickly. in a year or 2 POOF! we have a dumptruck load of cash to play with again. If we didn't make the dodger deal we couldn't say that until 2017!

    also, with these short term deals it makes the players easier to move if we need to make room for someone. You can always eat some cash.. you can't eat years off of a contract

     

    \


     

    Don't get me wrong fellas...  I've been calling the A-Gon, Crawford, & Beckett dump the deal of the century!  PURE BRILLIANCE!!!  Something I thought was completely impossible.  Thank God for Magic & The Dodgers!!!!  They now have our headaches!  :)

    The biggest & best part of the deal is dumping the YEARS!  I have loved it since the second I heard it!  I still have to pinch myself sometimes to believe it's still true.

    The biggest problem with the Papi contract?

    WHO WILL BE OUR DH, as we never gave it a thought in the off-season.  Lava?

    This lineup is hardly fearsome without Papi!  WE NEED A BIG DH in this league!  It's tough to see a big comeback for Papi, & so we tread water???  This is not good!



    very few teams employ a full time DH.... if papi can't go we will likely use it like every other AL team does... to rest and protect injury prone players (Naps). Lava could be a full time DH if he hits like he did in 2011 as opposed to 2012.. But as it stands now i could slot Naps in the DH spot if papi isn't ready by opening day and have Nava/Carp play 1B. Hell, we can even have Drew man first base and give Iggy a shot (pending he keeps hitting well throughout ST). the point is, with Papi out of the picture it gives us flexibility.. Yes, we won't have that fearsome hitting in the middle of the order bat but we can make the best of a bad situation and use it to give a prospect a shot (Iggy, Lava, ect..)

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to jackbu's comment:

     

    sounds like some papi supporters are slowly jumping ship

     




    if your talking about RSDD don't worry. he plays both sides :)

    and before RSDD gets in a tizzy just know i'm only picking on you because your so reactionary ;)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kingface12. Show Kingface12's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    he was signed as a pr move...the one lone link to the 2004 Glory year....the time to let him walk wasnt last off season, it was the year or two before when we had Vmart/Beltre who couldve easily done his job....

     

    i hope some of you apologists will have the courage to apologize to Bill for for his 100% correct call on papi..

     

    what was that recent thread called, Oh no Bill, papi is getting hea;thy??? LOLOL

     

    Or shucks Gerome,  I think that you are expecting too much from some of these  T-BALLERS ........  Their behavior today reached an all time LOW lib/left/rad/soc/moonbat state........  Never letting the FACTS as they were laid out make any difference at all.   Howevaa, being the strong person that my DAD made me, I will rise above and continue to call my Red Sox as I see them....  I still have hope that they will win it all this year !!!!

     



    Hate Ortiz all you want....I really can care less......acting like a racist on a public forum is a different thing.  It's all good though...I'm sure the mods here will do the appropriate thing since they have already agreed that the type of behavior you displayed here is not wanted.  ADIOS BILL!!

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to mef429's comment:

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    sounds like some papi supporters are slowly jumping ship
    if your talking about RSDD don't worry. he plays both sides :)




    mef429,

    With all due respect.  It's not "playing" both sides.  There clearly are at least 2 sides to most of these issues.  What I do, is I often look at and try to understand and respect both sides of the argument.  OK....  Sometimes I do "play" both sides, but that usually becomes obvious pretty quickly.  ;)

    With Papi, there are definitely 2 sides to he debate.  Dispassionately, the deal was not a good idea well beyond the money.  Most importantly it caused us to ignore the DH position, thus leaving the Sox at a distinct disadvantage in this high octane league!  FACT!  :)

    On the other hand, if you're going to make a PR play for any player, Papi deserves it more than any other RS player.

    STILL......  The Sox mgmt was irresponsible to not cover this contingency!!!

    There are 2 sides!  Some folks can't walk & chew gum???  I can.  Don't hate me for it :)

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:

    in someways is there not more strategy

    most times changing the pitcher in the NL is automatic when it' his turn to bat

    same with sacrificing earlier in the game when the # 9 hitter comes up

     

    There  is a lot more strategy involved in the decisions that an AL manager has to make, IMO.

    Any casual fan can predict the moves that an NL manager is going to make.

    In fact, your idol Bill James did a study on this.

    There is far less variation in strategy in an NL game than there is in an AL game.

     




    ''In fact, your idol Bill James''

    well that explains why your post  turn to brown  ink :)

    thanks wolfpack

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    I would love it if they got rid of the DH.... bogus argument that it helps with attendance and intrest. I see Chicago and Atlanta have plenty of fans and at 1PM during a weekday.... 

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:

     

    In response to mef429's comment:

     

    In response to jackbu's comment:

    sounds like some papi supporters are slowly jumping ship
    if your talking about RSDD don't worry. he plays both sides :)

     




     

    mef429,

    With all due respect.  It's not "playing" both sides.  There clearly are at least 2 sides to most of these issues.  What I do, is I often look at and try to understand and respect both sides of the argument.  OK....  Sometimes I do "play" both sides, but that usually becomes obvious pretty quickly.  ;)

    With Papi, there are definitely 2 sides to he debate.  Dispassionately, the deal was not a good idea well beyond the money.  Most importantly it caused us to ignore the DH position, thus leaving the Sox at a distinct disadvantage in this high octane league!  FACT!  :)

    On the other hand, if you're going to make a PR play for any player, Papi deserves it more than any other RS player.

    STILL......  The Sox mgmt was irresponsible to not cover this contingency!!!

    There are 2 sides!  Some folks can't walk & chew gum???  I can.  Don't hate me for it :)

     



    i didn't hear you pipe up when the contract was initially dished out.. but now that papi might not start the season you have an issue with the way it went down?

     

    we didn't "ignore the DH position". in fact, we nurtured it by retaining the greatest DH of all time (and the best currently in the league). If we didn't resign Papi how different do you think the offseason would have been? who would we have targeted to replace him? maybe made an effort to resign cody ross? targeted Naps initially as a DH and not a catcher/1Bman? sign mark reynolds after the O's released him? try to trade for V-Mart? maybe, but IMHO we would've tried to fill the position from within.. maybe give Lava the heads up that he is no longer a Catcher.. but no matter what we did, we would lose production from the DH spot. Papi is the best in the business at what he does. you can't replace that. the smartest move for the DH position going forward from 2012 was to retain Papi. Just so happens that he had a setback. it happens. He still hasn't missed any time in 2013.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from KRomine. Show KRomine's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    Let me see if I have this straight.  For the previous 2-3 years, RS management offered Ortiz one year contracts because they were concerned that his age and health may be an issue.

    Then once he's a year older and health IS an issue, they give him a TWO year deal.

    Brilliant!

    But look on the bright side.  At least it wasn't the standard Cherrington 3/$39 mil deal

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    I had a feeling it was going to turn out to be in issue with inflamation since I had a similar experience.

    This makes me once again question the competence of the Red Sox conditioning and training people. Perhaps they need a few lessons from my personal trainer. She certainly knows how to deal with this type of thing.




    Your situation and papi is totally different. Your not a MLB player. What he needs to do to prepare is a far cry from what you have to do IM sure. This isnt uncommon with this injury for MLB players. They have to test it to see how it reacts.

    I will say this though. Id like to know if papi had a slight tear when this first happened. And if so, why not opt for surgery. My one complain with the Sox medical staff is they always opt for trying to see if certain injuries heal on their own instead of just going ahead with the surgery, which usually ends up being the end result anyway.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to redsoxpride34's comment:

    we only have 1 potential middle of the order bat in boegarts in th minors, so banking on him and middlebrooks to be our future 3/4 hitters is awefully risky. Justin upton made all the sense in the world and yet we didnt even try to get him. He filled 3 needs at once, and is young to boot. There was no reason for the sox to not go after him, we are not a small market team who strives to develop a team full of prospects. We need proven players to go with the guys we develop. The sox fo has been incompetent for years and even with theo gone is still making mistakes left, right and center. 




    The good thing is that we will be picking 7th and thats where a few power bats will be. As far as your arguement in developing a MOTOB, teams who pick late at the draft usually dont get power bats because they all get scooped up in the first 10 picks. Its not exactly easy to teach a guy to be a 300/30/100 hitter. Usually you have to get very lucky picking late in the draft to get a true MOTOB...

    Not sure why some here have such a H-on for J, Upton. He has potential, but has been nothing more than inconsistant. His numbers in Az are good, but away they are terrible. To put him on the same hitting level as Papi is insulting to true power hitters everywhere.

    There are internal options. I understand we wont get the same production, but we wouldnt get the same production from and FA either and I dont think anyone was willing to trade a 30/100 guy anytime soon.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    In response to donrd4's comment:

     

    In response to prknsdnld's comment:

     

    In response to msobstinate99's comment:

     

    Update:

    Ortiz shut down for 5-7 days

    Sunday, March 10, 2013 -- Mark J Murphy

    PORT CHARLOTTE, Fla. — John Farrell said today that David Ortiz will be shut down for 5-7 days after an MRI revealed that he has inflammation in both heels.

    Farrell, speaking after the Sox game against the Tampa Bay Rays here, said that the inflammation is unrelated to the Achilles injury from which Ortiz has been rehabbing. Nevertheless, the setback likely means that Ortiz will not be ready by Opening Day.

    Ortiz, who is feeling the pain most acutely in his right heel, will be re-evaluated in a week or so. It's important to note that the 5-7 days are just a starting point; he could easily be out longer.

    "We got the MRI results back," Farrell said. "It does reveal some inflammation in the bony area of the heel. He's dealing with that. That's where the discomfort is being felt. As a result, we're going to shut him down for a few days here to let that quiet down completely before we start to initiate any kind of baseball activities after that."

    While Ortiz has some inflammation in both heels, he's mainly dealing with problems in the right heel, Farrell said.

    "We feel like progress is being in made," Farrell said. "There's no doubt about that. But he's dealing with an issue that we've got to give it time to clear up."

    As for Ortiz's potential readiness on Opening Day, Farrell is a realist.

    "I mean, we're three weeks away," he said. "He's going to need at-bats. While we're not foregoing Opening Day right now, we're starting to get into an area where, depending on how many days we need to shut him down, that's going to have a direct bearing on where we are coming opening day."

    Blog:   Clubhouse Insider   [1] Author(s):  John Tomase Media:    090712soxcs26.jpg [2]  Sunday,h 10, 2013 Tags Entity:  David Orti

     

    Nothing a Domican Milkshake can't cure.....
    How come his ankle was fine before the two year contract? Time to let him go...This will be a season long.... How is big Papi doing.. how is his ankle......Will he play today ??? All a big show for another money hungry ball player.  I would release him now and then see how his ankle feels.... Ortiz thinks he's owed millions and is now collecting....The big waste.... Get back on the millshake and play ball.... Then again we owe him.... He will tell you that. Dump him and shove his ankle up his slow fat AZZ.What a way to exit......Thanks fat sloppy

     

     




     

     



     

    My guess is that his heels were fine when the contract was signed because he wasn't exerting himself physically. I am willing to bet more than ever that he didn't do any serious rehab during the off season. If he had..then this issue would have come to surface before he reported to spring training. It is the nature of the beast so to speak.

    I stil think we'll see Ortiz..just not for a few weeks.

     Of course..the other side is..it's just some pockets of inflammation. Sure it's giving him  some discomfort..but if he were motivated..maybe he'd play through the pain...



    Maybe it's the weight of all the money in his POCKETS......Lets  play the ORTIZ watch this year. Arn't we tired of that yet ????. I say let him stay in Florida ,He's much closer to the Dominican. They have great Doctors there who could get him feeling like Superman !!!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    I had a feeling it was going to turn out to be in issue with inflamation since I had a similar experience.

    This makes me once again question the competence of the Red Sox conditioning and training people. Perhaps they need a few lessons from my personal trainer. She certainly knows how to deal with this type of thing.

     




    Your situation and papi is totally different. Your not a MLB player. What he needs to do to prepare is a far cry from what you have to do IM sure. This isnt uncommon with this injury for MLB players. They have to test it to see how it reacts.

     

    I will say this though. Id like to know if papi had a slight tear when this first happened. And if so, why not opt for surgery. My one complain with the Sox medical staff is they always opt for trying to see if certain injuries heal on their own instead of just going ahead with the surgery, which usually ends up being the end result anyway.




    I agree my situation is different. What I'm getting at is that I had and still have issues with inflammation in my right heel. Yet..when it becomes bothersome and painful..my trainer is able to develop strategies to help me overcome the discomfort and like I said..be able to do a 5k. I doubt Ortiz is going to do that anytime soon.
    My point is that if I can tough it out for no reward but my own health..then Ortiz should be able to tough it out for $26 million.

    Also..I too have questions about the original injury. It was never referred to as a tear until recently. To me..this could be another example of the Sox poor conditioning/training people and medical staff.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to miscricket's comment:

     

    I had a feeling it was going to turn out to be in issue with inflamation since I had a similar experience.

    This makes me once again question the competence of the Red Sox conditioning and training people. Perhaps they need a few lessons from my personal trainer. She certainly knows how to deal with this type of thing.

     




    Your situation and papi is totally different. Your not a MLB player. What he needs to do to prepare is a far cry from what you have to do IM sure. This isnt uncommon with this injury for MLB players. They have to test it to see how it reacts.

     

    I will say this though. Id like to know if papi had a slight tear when this first happened. And if so, why not opt for surgery. My one complain with the Sox medical staff is they always opt for trying to see if certain injuries heal on their own instead of just going ahead with the surgery, which usually ends up being the end result anyway.

     




    I agree my situation is different. What I'm getting at is that I had and still have issues with inflammation in my right heel. Yet..when it becomes bothersome and painful..my trainer is able to develop strategies to help me overcome the discomfort and like I said..be able to do a 5k. I doubt Ortiz is going to do that anytime soon.
    My point is that if I can tough it out for no reward but my own health..then Ortiz should be able to tough it out for $26 million.

     

    Also..I too have questions about the original injury. It was never referred to as a tear until recently. To me..this could be another example of the Sox poor conditioning/training people and medical staff.

     




    I understand what your saying and commend you for your achievements and toughness. I still think that running a 5k and running basses/hitting is a lot different and would result in a different outcome. Your pacing yourself over a long distance while papi has quick burts at short distances. That works the muscle and tendons completely different. Also the impact on the feet of running the basses at full speed, hitting the bases themselves, and basically runnung in a circle at full speed...Its just not the same, so "toughing it out" sometimes is not an option. Plus if your paying someone 26M you dont want to further damage it. Its not Papis decision to shut it down. he has no say in this...

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    smells like Schilling deal in his final season...red sox player emeritus...like the defunct Pope

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Ortiz shut down.

    In response to georom4's comment:

    smells like Schilling deal in his final season...red sox player emeritus...like the defunct Pope

    Gerome,   I heard that Ben was close to cutting a DEAL with the DODGERS..................   YES, Papi & his 26MIL for CARL CRAWFORD, and the dodgers will pay the balance on the contract !!!!!     "WOW", Can Ben & LUCCIANO'S get out of this one ?????


     
  23. This post has been removed.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. This post has been removed.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share