Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    This might have gotten lost on an old thread, so I thought I'd start a thread because I thought it was interesting.

    Good ol' Bill claimed that Ortiz doesn't hit top pitchers very well -- a lot of 0-fers, he claimed. He didn't have stats to back up his claim -- said his eyes told him so -- so I thought I'd do him a service. A lot of posters pile on Bill because of the way he posts, so I figured I add facts to show that maybe Bill does indeed knows what he's talking about.

    First, I don't really know how you quantify good pitching, but looking at the leaders in ERA is as good of way as any.

    So here is how Ortiz is doing against the top 20 pitchers in AL in ERA. (Lackey is in the top 20 so that's way there are only 19 pitchers).

    Sanchez Didn’t face

    Colon 0-3

    Darvish 1-3

    Iwakuma 2-5

    Scherzer 1-5

    Hernandez 3-4

    Sale Didn’t face

    Kuroda 8-14

    Santana 4-6

    Shields 2-6

    Wilson  1-3

    Price 3-12

    Jimenz Didn’t face

    Verlander 2-3

    Quintana 1-3

    Holland 1-6

    Masterson 1-2

    Fister 0-4

    Tillman 0-7

     

    Totals 30-84 .357

    Oh -- he's also 5-for-17 combined against Sabathia and Rivera -- two pitchers who are generally considered good pitchers.

    Well -- it seems to me that Ortiz is hitting good pitching. Sorry Bill, I tried to help you out.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers


    I am sure the OP is correct, but would  like to note that top pitchers get that way because they are hard to hit.  The simple fact is that good pitching trumps good hitting.  Of course even the best pitchers can have an off night and be very hittable, but, when they are on, they are close to unhittable, by Ortiz or anyone else. 

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to LionSean's comment:

    Congratulations. You proved that Ortiz does his job adequately. Hitting is Ortiz ONLY contribution to this team. I expect him to excel at it and to come through in the clutch. That is the VERY LEAST I expect of him. If he can't do that he ain't worth having.



    Welcome back jackbu

     
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  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to LionSean's comment:

    Congratulations. You proved that Ortiz does his job adequately. Hitting is Ortiz ONLY contribution to this team. I expect him to excel at it and to come through in the clutch. That is the VERY LEAST I expect of him. If he can't do that he ain't worth having.




    He's worth every bit of the $14K the Sox pay him.  He could play first base and play it decently, but the whole of idea of the DH is to get a very good bat in the linup to replace the pitcher.  He is the best DH in MLB.  I believe there are a goodly number of DH's in the AL who don't hit all that well.  Right now I think of him, DH or not, as the one irreplaceable hitter in the lineup. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:


    I am sure the OP is correct, but would  like to note that top pitchers get that way because they are hard to hit.  The simple fact is that good pitching trumps good hitting.  Of course even the best pitchers can have an off night and be very hittable, but, when they are on, they are close to unhittable, by Ortiz or anyone else. 



    The bold comment -- I agree 100 percent. When I read bill's nonsense, that's what I was thinking. It's the same when you read "Sox can't hit good pitching." Well, duh -- few teams can hit good pitching. That's why the pitchers are good.

    But I was curious to see how good or bad Ortiz actually was. Again -- how do you quantify good pitching? Using the top in ERA was at least one way, so that's what I used. I actually was surprised that Ortiz was hitting that as good as he was against those pitchers.

    If he's hitting good pitching at at .357 clip and hitting .312 overall during the season, maybe bill's complaint should be Ortiz can hit average or lousy pitching.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    royf19, you always write great stuff.  I love moonslav's stuff too because of the barrage of stats, but don't always agree with his conclusions.  Still, the great thing about moonslav is, unlike wimps like me, he does take a position.  And, if he is wrong, he later says so. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    royf19, you always write great stuff.  I love moonslav's stuff too because of the barrage of stats, but don't always agree with his conclusions.  Still, the great thing about moonslav is, unlike wimps like me, he does take a position.  And, if he is wrong, he later says so. 




    Thanks.

    I know what you mean about moon. He does some great research, but I get a brain freeze sometimes reading it. But he's always informative and you can have good conversations with him. That's what I come to the board for -- to have intelligent debates/convesations, agree or disagree.

    That's why I always read your posts because they're smart and whether or not we agree, we can have a good discussion.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to LionSean's comment:

    Congratulations. You proved that Ortiz does his job adequately. Hitting is Ortiz ONLY contribution to this team. I expect him to excel at it and to come through in the clutch. That is the VERY LEAST I expect of him. If he can't do that he ain't worth having.



    Right. but he can do it, so he is worth having.

    Did you have a point?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to LionSean's comment:

    Congratulations. You proved that Ortiz does his job adequately. Hitting is Ortiz ONLY contribution to this team. I expect him to excel at it and to come through in the clutch. That is the VERY LEAST I expect of him. If he can't do that he ain't worth having.



    And if you don't anything positive to say you're not worth reading. To my ignore list you go. As I say to those few lucky souls on the list.

    Good Bye !!

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    This might have gotten lost on an old thread, so I thought I'd start a thread because I thought it was interesting.

    Good ol' Bill claimed that Ortiz doesn't hit top pitchers very well -- a lot of 0-fers, he claimed. He didn't have stats to back up his claim -- said his eyes told him so -- so I thought I'd do him a service. A lot of posters pile on Bill because of the way he posts, so I figured I add facts to show that maybe Bill does indeed knows what he's talking about.

    First, I don't really know how you quantify good pitching, but looking at the leaders in ERA is as good of way as any.

    So here is how Ortiz is doing against the top 20 pitchers in AL in ERA. (Lackey is in the top 20 so that's way there are only 19 pitchers).

    Sanchez Didn’t face

    Colon 0-3

    Darvish 1-3

    Iwakuma 2-5

    Scherzer 1-5

    Hernandez 3-4

    Sale Didn’t face

    Kuroda 8-14

    Santana 4-6

    Shields 2-6

    Wilson  1-3

    Price 3-12

    Jimenz Didn’t face

    Verlander 2-3

    Quintana 1-3

    Holland 1-6

    Masterson 1-2

    Fister 0-4

    Tillman 0-7

     

    Totals 30-84 .357

    Oh -- he's also 5-for-17 combined against Sabathia and Rivera -- two pitchers who are generally considered good pitchers.

    Well -- it seems to me that Ortiz is hitting good pitching. Sorry Bill, I tried to help you out.

     



    Well, if he's 30 for 84 against great pitching, that means he's 121 for 405 against mediocre and poor pitching.  The bum can't even hit .300 against chumps.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from blingblang. Show blingblang's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    Here's to hoping he will get another 30HR-100RBI this season.  I think he is off by a couple on both counts with 9 games to go.

    I think Papi was athis best in 04, clutch.  Was OK in 07, still not bad, but not quite like 04.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    Remember the clown called softy who claimed Papi needed to be rested once a week of he'd end up on the DL? The same clown who said Papi had "lost his pop". The same clown who said he shouldn't play over 105 games this year or he'd be toast.

     

    After missing the first 15 games of the year, Papi has played in 130 out of our 139 games.

    His .562 SLG% is higher than his career .549 number.

    He has his highest "Value" on fangraphs since 2007.

    He is 1 HR away from his highest total since 2010.

    He is 4 HRs away from his highest HR total since 2007.

    He is 4 XBHs away from his most since 2007.

     

    In all fairness, 2 of his games were 1 PA games, so he really sat out 11 out of 139 games. That's about 1 out of every 14 games. He sat 3 on that 6 game road trip at NL parks.

    BILL was right on softy's bandwagon and took over after the clown's departure. The numbers speak for themselves:

    .309  28  96 in 566 PAs (38 2B+3B)

    .394 OBP  (10th in MLB)

    .562 SLG  (4th in MLB)

    .956 OPS  (5th in MLB)

     

     

    Sox4ever

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to royf19's comment:

    This might have gotten lost on an old thread, so I thought I'd start a thread because I thought it was interesting.

    Good ol' Bill claimed that Ortiz doesn't hit top pitchers very well -- a lot of 0-fers, he claimed. He didn't have stats to back up his claim -- said his eyes told him so -- so I thought I'd do him a service. A lot of posters pile on Bill because of the way he posts, so I figured I add facts to show that maybe Bill does indeed knows what he's talking about.

    First, I don't really know how you quantify good pitching, but looking at the leaders in ERA is as good of way as any.

    I tried to explain Confirmation Bias to Bill once, but it was futile.  Other than "Four hits good, 2 outs bad" he just isn't capable of understanding anything.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    Did it really take an entire thread to reach the conclusion that Papi can hit? News flash the other 29 teams in baseball already new it. Papi leads the league in intentional walks and if they kept stats for unintentional-intentional walks his numbers would be even higher. His presence in the middle of our lineup is invaluable. 

    In terms of his games played per season injuries have caused him to miss time and interleague play also prevents him from playing in a number of games he would otherwise play. Add in the occasional off day due to a tough lefty on the bump and 145 to 150 is about his max under normal circumstances.

    Those looking to disparage him due to his age, contract and that he's only a DH will cite his annual trips to the DL as cause for concern and will highlight the times during the season when his stick goes cold. Those same folks if they are true sox fans will jump off their couches with the rest of us when Papi comes through...again and drives in a big run or goes yard in a close game...then come on this cite that evening or the next day and try to pretend it never happened.  

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    I see the clown is back to his old lying ways.

    He clearly said that Papi needed a day off every week.

    He laughed at me when I said he'd start about 130 games and still hit well.

     

    Sox4ever

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    "105 games or toast" isn't even good lying. Still waiting on Wakefield and that 2M plus market you claimed he would have when you urged the Red Sox to do what no other team in MLB would do, put Wakefield on the active roster.




    Sorry, it's not a good lie because it's not a lie.

    I remember the same posts.

    Must really bite, being you.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

     

    "105 games or toast" isn't even good lying. Still waiting on Wakefield and that 2M plus market you claimed he would have when you urged the Red Sox to do what no other team in MLB would do, put Wakefield on the active roster.

     




    Sorry, it's not a good lie because it's not a lie.

     

    I remember the same posts.

    Must really bite, being you.



    The clown went on and on for pages about how 105 games was the top limit, and how he needed a "day off once every week or else...".

    Do the math. He missed 15 games to start the year, one game off a week, is not 115-120 games.

    I noticed the clown is not responding to his "lost his pop" claim.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    I see the clown is back to his old lying ways.

    He clearly said that Papi needed a day off every week.

    He laughed at me when I said he'd start about 130 games and still hit well.

     

    Sox4ever



    I couldn't stop laughing when I read his posts. He never came close to saying 122 games and the only way he could get down to that number was to come up with a bogus criteria -- START AND FINISHED.

    Ortiz has started 128 of the 130 games he played and will end up playing  right around 135 games, which is what I pegged him to play.

    And in what world is 500-plus at-bats, which is what he'll end up with as he's at 492 right now, a part-time player?

    Softy picked a fine time to start sniffing glue again.

     
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