Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    If by chance Ortiz does lay an egg in the post season, then there will be some interesting threads.

     

    At least one of them started by you, no doubt.

    Bet you can't wait...

     

    I love the smell of asphalt in the morning.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from 2013soxchamps. Show 2013soxchamps's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    Don't worry he'll retire soon enough and you can have a song and dance party

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from 37stories. Show 37stories's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    Ortiz has started and finished 122 games this season, which is within the 115 to 120 games maximum workload I projected he could handle. He has declined in August and September with 8 home runs for 1/3 of the season, pending the last few games. He is struggling to try and reach 100 RBI's for the first time since 2010, and is struggling to reach 30 homers for the first time since 2010. It remains to be seen what he has left in the playoffs, even though he's strictly a DH. With another full year on his contract, it's been quite clear for the last 2 years that he no longer has the physical constitution to start and finish 140 or more games. It remains to be seen how he holds up in 2014, after appearing in 130 games in 2013.

    Wakefield and Varitek were washed up before they were put in a position of having management basically retire them after a season or more too long. I believe Ortiz is going to be in that position during 2014 and the miles of 2013 will result in less effectiveness in 2014.

    The book isn't in on the Ortiz 2 year contract, until the post season and 2014 are completed.

    Ortiz has been a part-time player since 2010, even though he's just DH'ing.

     



    I agree. Ortiz had a great year.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

     

    Some posters just can't move on.  This thread was started to bash bill then the softy bashing started.

    The sox just clinched a post season berth, unthought of last april and some want to bash others. 

    Ortiz can hit, some said he would fade, some said he would need some rest, some said he would do well.  What difference does it make!












     

     
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    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    Move on

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    Ortiz has started and finished 122 games this season, which is within the 115 to 120 games maximum workload I projected he could handle. He has declined in August and September with 8 home runs for 1/3 of the season, pending the last few games. He is struggling to try and reach 100 RBI's for the first time since 2010, and is struggling to reach 30 homers for the first time since 2010. It remains to be seen what he has left in the playoffs, even though he's strictly a DH. With another full year on his contract, it's been quite clear for the last 2 years that he no longer has the physical constitution to start and finish 140 or more games. It remains to be seen how he holds up in 2014, after appearing in 130 games in 2013.

    Wakefield and Varitek were washed up before they were put in a position of having management basically retire them after a season or more too long. I believe Ortiz is going to be in that position during 2014 and the miles of 2013 will result in less effectiveness in 2014.

     

    The book isn't in on the Ortiz 2 year contract, until the post season and 2014 are completed.

    Ortiz has been a part-time player since 2010, even though he's just DH'ing.

     



    Since your first post was on 9/13/13 you couldn't have possibly projected anything.

    But I do remember someone who believes in a non-physical entity claiming that Papi would break down and be injured again after a 110 game limit. This limit was described only as games, not whether they were started, completed, pinch hit appearances or what have you. Ortiz is a professional hitter and is not struggling to reach any milestones for the season. He is using his skills to perform at a high level that his critics deny even while it stares them in the face.

    Also, 122 is not within the range of 115-120. It is outside of that range and surpasses it.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    And I quote:

     

    "In response to softlaw2's comment:

     

    my heart says over, my brain says under

    These words say it all. Punch and judy for a short stint, than back to the DL."





    "Hold it fellows, that don't move me. Let's get real, real gone for a change."

    -Elvis Presley

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    Also, 122 is not within the range of 115-120. It is outside of that range and surpasses it.

    The clown has never been known for math, except by getting it wrong. (See his "Do the Math" thread that got even the simplest data wrong. Even after being corrected numerous times, he kept on posting erroneous data. I won't even get inot the faulty iterpretation of that data.

    Before that, there was the infamous "median average" nonsense.

    Everyone who was here last spring remebers his rants about Papi breaking down and losing his pop. Expecting a clown to admit a mistake is apparently too much to ask.

    Sox4ever

     
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    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    Everyone who was here last spring remebers his rants about Papi breaking down and losing his pop. Expecting a clown to admit a mistake is apparently too much to ask.

    Sox4ever




    A name change won't hide his hatred

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    Some posters just can't move on.  This thread was started to bash bill then the softy bashing started.

    The sox just clinched a post season berth, unthought of last april and some want to bash others. 

    Ortiz can hit, some said he would fade, some said he would need some rest, some said he would do well.  What difference does it make!












     



    No, this thread was started to refute an opinion that had no basis in fact. Using facts to debunk someone else's opinion isn't bashing. Sorry you feel that way. You've defending bill before, and that's fine. But I don't get it. It's OK for him to post whatever opinion he wants without facts to back them up, but it's not OK for someone else to take argue against that opinion and not just argue against, but use facts to back up that opinion.

    I don't get it. Then what the he!! is this message board for.

    Why do you defend bill's and softy's right to post what ever they want then bash those who want to refute their claims? Not just a little bit of a double standard. It's a huge double standard.

     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Some posters just can't move on.  This thread was started to bash bill then the softy bashing started.

    The sox just clinched a post season berth, unthought of last april and some want to bash others. 

    Ortiz can hit, some said he would fade, some said he would need some rest, some said he would do well.  What difference does it make!












     

     

     



    No, this thread was started to refute an opinion that had no basis in fact. Using facts to debunk someone else's opinion isn't bashing. Sorry you feel that way. You've defending bill before, and that's fine. But I don't get it. It's OK for him to post whatever opinion he wants without facts to back them up, but it's not OK for someone else to take argue against that opinion and not just argue against, but use facts to back up that opinion.

     

     

    I don't get it. Then what the he!! is this message board for.

    Why do you defend bill's and softy's right to post what ever they want then bash those who want to refute their claims? Not just a little bit of a double standard. It's a huge double standard.

     



    I don't think it's a double standat at all.  You are not on a anti-ortiz thread stated by bill trying to refute what he's saying.  A good back and forth on a thread like that is fine as long as it stays civil.

     

    You started a thread bringing up bill's opinion out of the blue to be negative, that is totally different.  Then the softy posts start and he's not even here.  Good grief, when are people going to forget him.  He has influence on this board and he was booted a while back, when is it going to end?

    From what I can see bill is doing his best to be a positive poster. These kinds of threads don't help him move forward.

     Thank-you for your civil post!

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to LionSean's comment:

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

     

    In response to LionSean's comment:

     

     

     

    Congratulations. You proved that Ortiz does his job adequately. Hitting is Ortiz ONLY contribution to this team. I expect him to excel at it and to come through in the clutch. That is the VERY LEAST I expect of him. If he can't do that he ain't worth having.

     

     



    And if you don't anything positive to say you're not worth reading.To my ignore list you go. As I say to those few lucky souls on the list.

     

     

    Good Bye !!

     

     




    Whooo this is a tough crowd. I don't have anything positive to say? I thought this was baseball chat not a knitting circle or a fan page. Sorry I don't find anything remarkable about a 14 mil/yr DH doing his job. Sorry if I had higher expectations of David then it appears you did.He's meeting my expectations where it appears he is exceeding yours. I think I'll recover bravely from being placed on your ignore list.

     



    It's a bit strange here.  Some posters refuse to hear anything negative about ortiz so they go into hyper-mode if they hear something they don't like.

    I don't put them on ignore, but I don't pay munch attention to what they say.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to LionSean's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to LionSean's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    In response to LionSean's comment:

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Congratulations. You proved that Ortiz does his job adequately. Hitting is Ortiz ONLY contribution to this team. I expect him to excel at it and to come through in the clutch. That is the VERY LEAST I expect of him. If he can't do that he ain't worth having.

     

     

     

     

     



    And if you don't anything positive to say you're not worth reading.To my ignore list you go. As I say to those few lucky souls on the list.

     

     

     

     

     

    Good Bye !!

     

     

     

     

     




    Whooo this is a tough crowd. I don't have anything positive to say? I thought this was baseball chat not a knitting circle or a fan page. Sorry I don't find anything remarkable about a 14 mil/yr DH doing his job. Sorry if I had higher expectations of David then it appears you did.He's meeting my expectations where it appears he is exceeding yours. I think I'll recover bravely from being placed on your ignore list.

     

     

     

     

     

     

     



    It's a bit strange here.  Some posters refuse to hear anything negative about ortiz so they go into hyper-mode if they hear something they don't like.

     

     

     

    I don't put them on ignore, but I don't pay munch attention to what they say.

     

     




    Thank you! Iwas reading  the sports section yesterday and followed a link here. Posted a few comments had one person call me someone else, another person tell me I was on his IGNORE list -imagine for expressing an opinion! and another person followed each of my comments yesterday with CLOWN. Strange doesn't begin to describe it but I thought I'd give it a go again today.

     

     

     



    I feel your pain LOL!  The same thing was done to me when I first posted.  There are some great posters here and some are not.

     

    Some like a good argument and some just like to argue.  If you stay, and I hope you do, you will figure out who is who.

    Some just like to be ugly but don't feel bad, they are ugly to most everyone.  I put those guys on ignore.  

    This board has become a little PC in the last few years.  It does seem that some here just don't want to hear anything negative at all.  My dad was a die hard fan but he would be critical of players if he did not like what he saw.  

    Read the threads and post as you wish.  If you develope a good back and forth with a poster enjoy it, if some poster is a jerk then either put him on ignore or simply ignore him.

    Good luck and Go Sox!!!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:

    no doubt his numbers are down for this and last month and there are recent series where he has gone 0 for whatever, 2 out of 3 games


    No doubt. Ortiz started the season on the DL and avoided another DL stint which may explain in his decline in August and September last 1/3 of the season. It's also going to factor into 2014, on his high miles chart.

    Been a huge supporter of Ortiz, advocating for a big extension back when this Board was dominated by Moonslav leading the call that he couldn't hit left hand pitching anymore and to spend the money elsewhere after his contract expired.

    But, let's understand that Ortiz isn't what he used to be. even though I advocated giving him the two year deal that would mean this would be his last contract year and opportunity for him to retire with the Red Sox before he heads for Wakefield and Varitek territory. 

    For 2014, Napoli should surely be passed on with a QO and draft compensation, the Red Sox are now in a position where they need advanced planning for Ortiz's aging out. I'm sure 2013 will make 2014 planning near sighted.



    Ortiz of 2013 is not Ortiz of 2004. So what? How many players maintain the same level of production as they age? However, Ortiz has produced this season and made a big positive contribution to the success of a first place team. He is still producing today. He is no more "avoiding the DL" than Pedroia is or any other player is. Where will Dustin be at the end of his contract? Who cares? That is the nature of contracts. Wasn't Curt Schilling worth the money, despite his huge drop off after 2004? How many games did he pitch for $8 million in 2008? It's the price you pay for good players. Get over it.

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Some posters just can't move on.  This thread was started to bash bill then the softy bashing started.

    The sox just clinched a post season berth, unthought of last april and some want to bash others. 

    Ortiz can hit, some said he would fade, some said he would need some rest, some said he would do well.  What difference does it make!












     

     

     



    No, this thread was started to refute an opinion that had no basis in fact. Using facts to debunk someone else's opinion isn't bashing. Sorry you feel that way. You've defending bill before, and that's fine. But I don't get it. It's OK for him to post whatever opinion he wants without facts to back them up, but it's not OK for someone else to take argue against that opinion and not just argue against, but use facts to back up that opinion.

     

     

    I don't get it. Then what the he!! is this message board for.

    Why do you defend bill's and softy's right to post what ever they want then bash those who want to refute their claims? Not just a little bit of a double standard. It's a huge double standard.

     



    I don't think it's a double standat at all.  You are not on a anti-ortiz thread stated by bill trying to refute what he's saying.  A good back and forth on a thread like that is fine as long as it stays civil.

     

    You started a thread bringing up bill's opinion out of the blue to be negative, that is totally different.  Then the softy posts start and he's not even here.  Good grief, when are people going to forget him.  He has influence on this board and he was booted a while back, when is it going to end?

    From what I can see bill is doing his best to be a positive poster. These kinds of threads don't help him move forward.

     Thank-you for your civil post!



    Actually if you read my post, I originally did post it in response to what he wrote. It was an old thread when I responded and by that time, I wasn't sure if anyone was going back to it and read it.

    I thought it was an intersting enough topic and worthy of it's own thread so I started a new thread. I did it because as I responded to another poster, I actually expected Bill to be partly right. Good pitchers are good pitchers because they can get good hitters out. I was surprised that Ortiz was hitting "good pitching" as well as he was.

    Yes, I could have made the original post without mentioning Bill, but I was having a little fun with it. (Remember, you've defended Bill's "humor" in the past.)

    And if you noticed, Bill has been nowhere to be seen on this thread. He's not interested in having an intelligent back-and-forth discussion. He spews his ridiculous comments and when someone responds intelligently with facts to support an opposing view, he doesn't respond.

    And that's fine if that's the way he wants to be. Like I said -- my main reason for starting the new thread was to show how well Ortiz has hit "good pitching."

    As for softy -- he's not worth my time. I haven't responded to a post of his in a long time because he's another one who's not interested in an intelligent discussion.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to royf19's comment:

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Some posters just can't move on.  This thread was started to bash bill then the softy bashing started.

    The sox just clinched a post season berth, unthought of last april and some want to bash others. 

    Ortiz can hit, some said he would fade, some said he would need some rest, some said he would do well.  What difference does it make!












     

     

     



    No, this thread was started to refute an opinion that had no basis in fact. Using facts to debunk someone else's opinion isn't bashing. Sorry you feel that way. You've defending bill before, and that's fine. But I don't get it. It's OK for him to post whatever opinion he wants without facts to back them up, but it's not OK for someone else to take argue against that opinion and not just argue against, but use facts to back up that opinion.

     

     

    I don't get it. Then what the he!! is this message board for.

    Why do you defend bill's and softy's right to post what ever they want then bash those who want to refute their claims? Not just a little bit of a double standard. It's a huge double standard.

     



    I don't think it's a double standat at all.  You are not on a anti-ortiz thread stated by bill trying to refute what he's saying.  A good back and forth on a thread like that is fine as long as it stays civil.

     

    You started a thread bringing up bill's opinion out of the blue to be negative, that is totally different.  Then the softy posts start and he's not even here.  Good grief, when are people going to forget him.  He has influence on this board and he was booted a while back, when is it going to end?

    From what I can see bill is doing his best to be a positive poster. These kinds of threads don't help him move forward.

     Thank-you for your civil post!

     



    Actually if you read my post, I originally did post it in response to what he wrote. It was an old thread when I responded and by that time, I wasn't sure if anyone was going back to it and read it.

     

    I thought it was an intersting enough topic and worthy of it's own thread so I started a new thread. I did it because as I responded to another poster, I actually expected Bill to be partly right. Good pitchers are good pitchers because they can get good hitters out. I was surprised that Ortiz was hitting "good pitching" as well as he was.

    Yes, I could have made the original post without mentioning Bill, but I was having a little fun with it. (Remember, you've defended Bill's "humor" in the past.)

    And if you noticed, Bill has been nowhere to be seen on this thread. He's not interested in having an intelligent back-and-forth discussion. He spews his ridiculous comments and when someone responds intelligently with facts to support an opposing view, he doesn't respond.

    And that's fine if that's the way he wants to be. Like I said -- my main reason for starting the new thread was to show how well Ortiz has hit "good pitching."

    As for softy -- he's not worth my time. I haven't responded to a post of his in a long time because he's another one who's not interested in an intelligent discussion.



    I was enjoying your post until the spewing remark.  Bill is bill, to me he is harmless.  For whatever reason he likes to post here but I don't think he takes it as seriously as some.  I get a kick out of his posts because I take them in the manner that I think they are intended.

     

    Thanks for the great back and forth on this!

     
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    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    royf19, you always write great stuff.  I love moonslav's stuff too because of the barrage of stats, but don't always agree with his conclusions.  Still, the great thing about moonslav is, unlike wimps like me, he does take a position.  And, if he is wrong, he later says so. 




    When it comes to the smartest guys in the room, Roy is one of them. I like the way he reasons to reach his point. Can we all agree to call Moon the "Professor"?

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Ortiz vs. Top Pitchers

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

     

    In response to royf19's comment:

     

    In response to 67redsox's comment:

     

     

     

     

    Some posters just can't move on.  This thread was started to bash bill then the softy bashing started.

    The sox just clinched a post season berth, unthought of last april and some want to bash others. 

    Ortiz can hit, some said he would fade, some said he would need some rest, some said he would do well.  What difference does it make!












     

     

     



    No, this thread was started to refute an opinion that had no basis in fact. Using facts to debunk someone else's opinion isn't bashing. Sorry you feel that way. You've defending bill before, and that's fine. But I don't get it. It's OK for him to post whatever opinion he wants without facts to back them up, but it's not OK for someone else to take argue against that opinion and not just argue against, but use facts to back up that opinion.

     

     

    I don't get it. Then what the he!! is this message board for.

    Why do you defend bill's and softy's right to post what ever they want then bash those who want to refute their claims? Not just a little bit of a double standard. It's a huge double standard.

     



    I don't think it's a double standat at all.  You are not on a anti-ortiz thread stated by bill trying to refute what he's saying.  A good back and forth on a thread like that is fine as long as it stays civil.

     

    You started a thread bringing up bill's opinion out of the blue to be negative, that is totally different.  Then the softy posts start and he's not even here.  Good grief, when are people going to forget him.  He has influence on this board and he was booted a while back, when is it going to end?

    From what I can see bill is doing his best to be a positive poster. These kinds of threads don't help him move forward.

     Thank-you for your civil post!

     

     



    Actually if you read my post, I originally did post it in response to what he wrote. It was an old thread when I responded and by that time, I wasn't sure if anyone was going back to it and read it.

     

     

    I thought it was an intersting enough topic and worthy of it's own thread so I started a new thread. I did it because as I responded to another poster, I actually expected Bill to be partly right. Good pitchers are good pitchers because they can get good hitters out. I was surprised that Ortiz was hitting "good pitching" as well as he was.

    Yes, I could have made the original post without mentioning Bill, but I was having a little fun with it. (Remember, you've defended Bill's "humor" in the past.)

    And if you noticed, Bill has been nowhere to be seen on this thread. He's not interested in having an intelligent back-and-forth discussion. He spews his ridiculous comments and when someone responds intelligently with facts to support an opposing view, he doesn't respond.

    And that's fine if that's the way he wants to be. Like I said -- my main reason for starting the new thread was to show how well Ortiz has hit "good pitching."

    As for softy -- he's not worth my time. I haven't responded to a post of his in a long time because he's another one who's not interested in an intelligent discussion.



    I was enjoying your post until the spewing remark.  Bill is bill, to me he is harmless.  For whatever reason he likes to post here but I don't think he takes it as seriously as some.  I get a kick out of his posts because I take them in the manner that I thinkthey are intended.

     

     

    Thanks for the great back and forth on this!



    Yeah, you're right about "spew" but it's such a great word.

    To be honest, I ignore bill most of the time because his style bores me. However, when he posts something that can be easily refuted with a little research, I might chime in simply because it interests me to dig deeper into stats, etc. and I learn more about the team or players. Like this thread. I found it very interesting to see how Ortiz was doing against those pitchers.

     
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