1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Eufrates. Show Eufrates's posts

    Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/23/2011 10:37 PM EST

    http://twitter.com/#!/ScottLauber/status/139545291660591104

    Then he will sign with Baltimore.

    My guess

     

  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/23/2011 10:48 PM EST

    Inevitably we all will.  What's your point? 

     

  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/23/2011 10:54 PM EST

    But if I celebrate the Jewish holiday of Passover, I may recline instead. 

    When drinking the four cups of wine, and eating the matzot, the korech sandwich, and the afikoman, one is required to recline on a couch, an armchair, or on pillows. This is how royalty and nobility used to eat and on this night the people of Israel are entitled to conduct themselves like royalty.

    I may also recline tomorrow at Thanksgiving if the host owns a Lazy-Boy.

     

  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/23/2011 11:09 PM EST

    Will seek a two year deal to exceed one year 13 to 14M arbitration. That market exists. Red Sox should offer 1 year 13.5 to 14M plus option 8M and buyout of 2.5M. The best 2 year market will be no more than base 8 to 10, and 1 to 2M more over 2 years is not enough for Ortiz to leave soon to be retirement brand for another town.
     
    Ortiz is coming off an excellent league season. But his age makes risk and value a one year deal. His true value is about 1 year and 7 or 8M, but his production in 2011 and his career has earned the 6 or 7M gold watch. But going 2 years is not in the best interest of either party. Ortiz had better not tarnish his good will and career image by doing what Varitek and Wastefield are doing. Just becuase he can do it does not mean the Red Sox should enable it.

       
     

  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackbu. Show jackbu's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 6:45 AM EST

    The arb deadline passed last night and I don't see anything which says the sox's offer to David. David's skills have been declining. His effectiveness against good pitchers and good teams has been less. He produces far less in clutch situations.
     

  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 6:59 AM EST

    In Response to Ortiz will decline:
    http://twitter.com/#!/ScottLauber/status/139545291660591104 Then he will sign with Baltimore. My guess
    Posted by Eufrates


    So let Ortiz sign with Baltimore.       Turn around and sign Vladimir Guerrero for less money who wasn't offered arbitration by the Orioles and is a RH hitter.     At least he runs out ground balls up the 1st base line.
     

  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jackyldo. Show jackyldo's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 7:02 AM EST

    He was offered and will bring   2 picks if he signs elsewhere,
    Wheeler was offered and will bring 1  ..

    Wake and Tek    were not offered, because both would accept..

    If Papi accepts he gets his salary determined in a hearing.. if he and Sox can't agree before hand.  Unlikely he will go DOWN from last year.
     

  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 7:28 AM EST

    Truth be told---put Vlad in the Sox lineup--he would put up numbers like he did in Texas two years ago; pretty comparable to Papi.
    Ells, CC, Pedroia, Agon, Vlad, Beltran, Salty, Aviles and Scutaro
     

  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 9:28 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline:
    In Response to Ortiz will decline : So let Ortiz sign with Baltimore.       Turn around and sign Vladimir Guerrero for less money who wasn't offered arbitration by the Orioles and is a RH hitter.     At least he runs out ground balls up the 1st base line.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle


    Vlad can even steal bases still, albeit against our SoX
     

  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 9:31 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline:
    In Response to Ortiz will decline : So let Ortiz sign with Baltimore.       Turn around and sign Vladimir Guerrero for less money who wasn't offered arbitration by the Orioles and is a RH hitter.     At least he runs out ground balls up the 1st base line.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle


    With ZERO plate discipline and LOTS of singles  and not too many extra base hits, NOT a good idea at all!  Papi is a much better run producer than the wild swinging Vlad!
     

  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 9:35 AM EST

    Vlad's slugging percentage was a paltry .416 this season.  He had 44 extra base hits while our LEADOFF hitter had in excess of 80!  Papi slugged .554 which is stratospheres above Vlad.  No thanks!
     

  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 9:48 AM EST

    swapping Papi for Vlad makes ZERO sense..... 
     

  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 10:20 AM EST

    Either the Red Sox signs Papi or Beltran!!  That is the prediction!!!

    For me, I hope Papi walks, and sign Beltran.  I do not think it is worth to move Youkilis to DH and find another 3B via free agency cuz these free agents for the 3B position are very weak.  Give Middlebrook another year to try to play 3B at AAA and major league level.  If he isnt ready, then the Sox can alway look for a new 3B after the 2012 season.

    Just use most of the money on pitchings such as to find another closer and a starting pitcher.  Stay away from Wilson!!!
     

  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 10:55 AM EST

    As Ortiz gets older, he won't catch up with a good fastball unless he cheats in his swing and will be easy prey against most lefthanded pitchers.
     

  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 11:29 AM EST

    Will seek a two year deal to exceed one year 13 to 14M arbitration. That market exists. Red Sox should offer 1 year 13.5 to 14M plus option 8M and buyout of 2.5M. The best 2 year market will be no more than base 8 to 10, and 1 to 2M more over 2 years is not enough for Ortiz to leave soon to be retirement brand for another town.
     
    Wow! softy just changed his mind. Earlier he had said Papi should get about $6M less base in 2012.  Now, will he admit that he changed his mind or go into denial mode once again. 

    Ortiz is coming off an excellent league season. But his age makes risk and value a one year deal. His true value is about 1 year and 7 or 8M, but his production in 2011 and his career has earned the 6 or 7M gold watch. But going 2 years is not in the best interest of either party. Ortiz had better not tarnish his good will and career image by doing what Varitek and Wastefield are doing. Just becuase he can do it does not mean the Red Sox should enable it.

    Even earlier, he called me a racist for saying Papi should be offered about $10M with easy incentives that could bring him to $12.5M and harder ones that could bring him even higher. (Later, I lowered the base to $8M, but kept the incentives in place that would allow him to not make less money.)

    The silly clown is all over the map on this one.

     

  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 11:44 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline:
    The arb deadline passed last night and I don't see anything which says the sox's offer to David. David's skills have been declining. His effectiveness against good pitchers and good teams has been less. He produces far less in clutch situations.
    Posted by jackbu


    His OPS has risen in each of the two preceding years, so he has not been declining, though he certainly will eventually.

    Extrapolated for 162 games, his number against the NYY, he would wind up with 45 HRs and 108 RBIs.

    You made two points.

    Both points were wrong.

    Other than that, nice post.
     

  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 11:48 AM EST

    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline:
    In Response to Ortiz will decline : So let Ortiz sign with Baltimore.       Turn around and sign Vladimir Guerrero for less money who wasn't offered arbitration by the Orioles and is a RH hitter.     At least he runs out ground balls up the 1st base line.
    Posted by OnDeckCircle


    We have guys in the minors that are better than Vlad.  I think we should hope Papi declines, take the picks, and signing a RH RF.

    But having said that, Papi is twice the hitter Vlad is.
     

  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 12:11 PM EST

    Papi at twelve to fourteen million in arbitration is a terrible outcome.  His limitations even in good season show his upside is very limited.  The home runs and hits he gets are rarely significant in terms of wins as we saw in the month of September.

    What we saw in 2003 to 2008 was worth keeping around as he won games and led the team.  He now appears to be the opposite and if he get unhappier this year with a one year deal he would be more like a malcontent not a leader.
     

  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 12:20 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline:
    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline : With ZERO plate discipline and LOTS of singles  and not too many extra base hits, NOT a good idea at all!  Papi is a much better run producer than the wild swinging Vlad!
    Posted by william93063


    I agree that Ortiz is better than Guerrero, but he would be a good choice if Ortiz does leave the Red Sox.  Not sure who else they would sign, unless the Red Sox make Youk the DH, which has been discussed many times on thie site. 
     

  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from lhtak. Show lhtak's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 12:38 PM EST

    I really hope that he declines. Heyman predicts that Papi's arbitration value can go upto $16M. I always loved Papi on Sox but not at this price at this time of his career. His true value is around $8/year and I will take the heat for saying this but a three year deal with the final year team option, $8M/y, is what is fair for both the parties. $16M/year is way too much! If the Sox are willing to pay him 16M/year, let him walk, add 4-6M to 16 to go after Pujols. Here are my options.
     

  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 1:04 PM EST

    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline:
    In Response to Re: Ortiz will decline : We have guys in the minors that are better than Vlad.  I think we should hope Papi declines, take the picks, and signing a RH RF. But having said that, Papi is twice the hitter Vlad is.
    Posted by Joebreidey

    What players in the Red Sox farm system are better than Vladimir Guerrero?

    I don't think the Red Sox should pursue Guerrero, but Bill James projects a .296/.347/.462/.809 line with 17 homeruns, 62 runs and 73 RBI in 500 plate apearances in 2012.

    Guerrero is no longer great shakes, but the Red Sox are particularly thin on MLB-ready prospects.
     

  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tcal2-. Show tcal2-'s posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 2:03 PM EST

    There is a time for everyone to go and now it's Ortiz's.  Thanks and see ya.
     

  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 2:06 PM EST

    Wastefield and Varitek need to go. The Red Sox certainly would benefit from one more decent year from Ortiz.
     

  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 2:43 PM EST

    WE CAN ONLY HOPE HE GOES !!!

     

  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: Ortiz will decline

    posted at 11/24/2011 2:47 PM EST

    If you want to keep Ortiz around you need to realize his limitations.  If you are attached to him because of the past understand he has not been that man or player for four years.  He is still angry over the humiliation of the way his season's started in 2009 and 2010. Based on his bellyaching this season and his deteriorating skills,  why would we pay him more than last year in arbitration?  If he gets more in arbitration he will be getting more than he would have got for two years with someone else like the Orioles.