ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, but for that kind of money with a bad achilles can he nail a corner 3-pointer with the clock running down and the game on the line?

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]

    It doesn't seem like the issue is the 2nd year.  Its the base.  Papi wants his 15.  So, I doubt your 2/20 gets it done for the Birds.  That is more disrespectful than anything I imagine the Sox have on the table.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    Easy...They're working on it...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]

    It doesn't seem like the issue is the 2nd year.  Its the base.  Papi wants his 15.  So, I doubt your 2/20 gets it done for the Birds.  That is more disrespectful than anything I imagine the Sox have on the table.

    [/QUOTE]

    Space,my understanding is that he's looking for 2/25 and the Sox are willing to go 2 but at a lower base

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to mrmojo1120's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]

    It doesn't seem like the issue is the 2nd year.  Its the base.  Papi wants his 15.  So, I doubt your 2/20 gets it done for the Birds.  That is more disrespectful than anything I imagine the Sox have on the table.

    [/QUOTE]

    Space,my understanding is that he's looking for 2/25 and the Sox are willing to go 2 but at a lower base

    [/QUOTE]

    That sounds about right, though I thought maybe he was looking for slightly more base and the Sox would, or will, end up coming in around that 12.5 number.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    Maybe they could get it to 12.5 annually with incentives. I think they'll work it out though.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    The problem is not the incentatives for Big Papi.  The problem is the base pay and year that Papi want.   

    If Baltimore give him 2yrs/20mm plus incentatives that could go to 30mm while Boston give him 2yrs/26mm, Papi would go to Boston.  Cuz he know that his recently achilles injuries could end his career within two years from now.

    That is why he is fighting with Boston to make sure he can get the guarantee money that he wanted.

    I sorted think that he is kinda of being greedy!!

    Give him 2yrs/25 or less, or one year for 14 mm.....if he hate these offers, say bye bye

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]
    Most of us believe that Ortiz will remain with the Red Sox.  Even if he signs with another team, you can't really compare it to Ray Allen.  Unless he decides to sign with another team for 1/2 of what the Red Sox would be willing to pay him.  That is what Ray Allen did when he signed with Miami.  

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    Offer him $13.3M/1 to qualify for the comp pick, and then let the chips fall where they may.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    Will Pedey pull a Garnett and shun Papi when they meet in Baltimore?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem is not the incentatives for Big Papi.  The problem is the base pay and year that Papi want.   

    If Baltimore give him 2yrs/20mm plus incentatives that could go to 30mm while Boston give him 2yrs/26mm, Papi would go to Boston.  Cuz he know that his recently achilles injuries could end his career within two years from now.

    That is why he is fighting with Boston to make sure he can get the guarantee money that he wanted.

    I sorted think that he is kinda of being greedy!!

    Give him 2yrs/25 or less, or one year for 14 mm.....if he hate these offers, say bye bye

    [/QUOTE]


    People need to remember that when papi signed that 4 year extension he wanted a longer deal but was told that the Sox dont like to give out more than 4 year deals. Then they sign Drew for 5, Lackey for 5, CC for 7, Dice-K for 6, and Gonzo for 7...All players that had not yet proved themselves to be able to play in Boston like he had already done. I understand his frustration and feeling like he was lied to by the FO and disrespected. Most anyone here probably would too.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from 56redsox. Show 56redsox's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Will Pedey pull a Garnett and shun Papi when they meet in Baltimore?

    [/QUOTE]


    LOL, Good One.........

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem is not the incentatives for Big Papi.  The problem is the base pay and year that Papi want.   

    If Baltimore give him 2yrs/20mm plus incentatives that could go to 30mm while Boston give him 2yrs/26mm, Papi would go to Boston.  Cuz he know that his recently achilles injuries could end his career within two years from now.

    That is why he is fighting with Boston to make sure he can get the guarantee money that he wanted.

    I sorted think that he is kinda of being greedy!!

    Give him 2yrs/25 or less, or one year for 14 mm.....if he hate these offers, say bye bye

    [/QUOTE]


    People need to remember that when papi signed that 4 year extension he wanted a longer deal but was told that the Sox dont like to give out more than 4 year deals. Then they sign Drew for 5, Lackey for 5, CC for 7, Dice-K for 6, and Gonzo for 7...All players that had not yet proved themselves to be able to play in Boston like he had already done. I understand his frustration and feeling like he was lied to by the FO and disrespected. Most anyone here probably would too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Problem is that Papi's position is DH, and never play defense.  When he first wanted a long term contract his five years contract expired, he was on DL due to wrist injury.   That was why Boston refused to give him another long term contract.  Instead they gave him two years contract with a second year option.  But now he is 36 going to be 37 years old.  Why  he have to complain about what kind of contract he want especially he just DH!!

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    Much ado about nothing.... A little bit of contract posturing on both sides, but there will be a big happy press conference next week with the Sox Front Office & Ortiz slobbering all over each other.  There was about as good a chance of him leaving as Jeter leaving the Yankees when they were negotiating his current deal.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    I would do a sign and trade with Texas before midnight. Daniels must know Josh is signing soon elsewhere--Ortiz would replace his bat in the lineup.

    If I'm BenC-I'm talking with Daniels--how much would they pay Ortiz,  two years @$14 M and we want Andrus and a starting pitcher. Expand the trade to include Ells for a top prospect and David Murphy.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to GoUconn13's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The problem is not the incentatives for Big Papi.  The problem is the base pay and year that Papi want.   

    If Baltimore give him 2yrs/20mm plus incentatives that could go to 30mm while Boston give him 2yrs/26mm, Papi would go to Boston.  Cuz he know that his recently achilles injuries could end his career within two years from now.

    That is why he is fighting with Boston to make sure he can get the guarantee money that he wanted.

    I sorted think that he is kinda of being greedy!!

    Give him 2yrs/25 or less, or one year for 14 mm.....if he hate these offers, say bye bye

    [/QUOTE]


    People need to remember that when papi signed that 4 year extension he wanted a longer deal but was told that the Sox dont like to give out more than 4 year deals. Then they sign Drew for 5, Lackey for 5, CC for 7, Dice-K for 6, and Gonzo for 7...All players that had not yet proved themselves to be able to play in Boston like he had already done. I understand his frustration and feeling like he was lied to by the FO and disrespected. Most anyone here probably would too.

    [/QUOTE]


    Problem is that Papi's position is DH, and never play defense.  When he first wanted a long term contract his five years contract expired, he was on DL due to wrist injury.   That was why Boston refused to give him another long term contract.  Instead they gave him two years contract with a second year option.  But now he is 36 going to be 37 years old.  Why  he have to complain about what kind of contract he want especially he just DH!!

    [/QUOTE]


    I understand that but my point was they told him the teams "policy" was to NOT give more than 4 years and they went ahead and did it 5 times after they said that...And Papi can play 1b. hes not a GG, but whenever hes put on a mit hes done a fine job. Not that he could do it as well now, but back at the time of the deal he could. They just chose not to let him.

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    If Ortiz can get a 2 yr. deal at 14+ Million???  God bless him!

    It would truly be a sad day, as it would be a real end of an ERA, but...  I hate to say it....  It's probably time.  Risk vs. Reward, would dictate not giving him a 2 yr. deal.  PERIOD!  It would be the smart move!!!  Just glad I don't have to make the call!

    I hope he gets it elsewhere, so we don't have to make the move.

    As for Ray Allen.  Grow up!  It's a business.  Ray saw the writing on the wall.  It was the right move for him, & the Celtics.  Sorry!  Deal with it!  I still love the guy!!!!  Just part of growing up.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]
    Most of us believe that Ortiz will remain with the Red Sox.  Even if he signs with another team, you can't really compare it to Ray Allen.  Unless he decides to sign with another team for 1/2 of what the Red Sox would be willing to pay him.  That is what Ray Allen did when he signed with Miami.  

    [/QUOTE]

    BINGO COMRADE! that is exactly my point.. papi can be very vengeful when he feels disrepsepected. i can see him leavung for LESS money and terms just because the owner in balt called him up directly or offered a no-trade and post-playing contract or something like that. papi could easily pull an allen rather take more for less respect! 

    [/QUOTE]

    The assumption that, because the negotiations are taking a little time, this somehow equals disrespect is a little strange.  Papi, and more importantly, Papi's agent, are business people and I highly doubt they are offended at the Red Sox not just jumping in to ink a 37 year old injured DH to a multi year deal willy nilly.  No doubt, as due dilligence requires, Papi's camp came in with a number beyond what they would ultimately be willing to settle on.  Absolutely no reason for the Sox to just accept that figure.  Conversely, no reason for Papi's camp to play softball either.  These are high stakes negotiations.  Warm and fuzzies of Papi's Sox career and legacy etc. will come into play for an extra mil here or there.  But it is, in my estimation, silly to think that both sides were just going to have a big group hug and sign on the dotted line straight away.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]
    Most of us believe that Ortiz will remain with the Red Sox.  Even if he signs with another team, you can't really compare it to Ray Allen.  Unless he decides to sign with another team for 1/2 of what the Red Sox would be willing to pay him.  That is what Ray Allen did when he signed with Miami.  

    [/QUOTE]

    BINGO COMRADE! that is exactly my point.. papi can be very vengeful when he feels disrepsepected. i can see him leavung for LESS money and terms just because the owner in balt called him up directly or offered a no-trade and post-playing contract or something like that. papi could easily pull an allen rather take more for less respect! 

    [/QUOTE]

    The assumption that, because the negotiations are taking a little time, this somehow equals disrespect is a little strange.  Papi, and more importantly, Papi's agent, are business people and I highly doubt they are offended at the Red Sox not just jumping in to ink a 37 year old injured DH to a multi year deal willy nilly.  No doubt, as due dilligence requires, Papi's camp came in with a number beyond what they would ultimately be willing to settle on.  Absolutely no reason for the Sox to just accept that figure.  Conversely, no reason for Papi's camp to play softball either.  These are high stakes negotiations.  Warm and fuzzies of Papi's Sox career and legacy etc. will come into play for an extra mil here or there.  But it is, in my estimation, silly to think that both sides were just going to have a big group hug and sign on the dotted line straight away.

    [/QUOTE]
    you are totally wrong space...the papi negotiations are not required to be, nor should it have been, a draining, brinksmanship negotiation....we know what he wanted, we know what he is worth, we know what he has done for us, and we know what the market will bear...this is a two year deal that should have been done the NEXT DAY after the manager was signed....instead we get this nonsense...over what, 5 million dollars?

     
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  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]
    Most of us believe that Ortiz will remain with the Red Sox.  Even if he signs with another team, you can't really compare it to Ray Allen.  Unless he decides to sign with another team for 1/2 of what the Red Sox would be willing to pay him.  That is what Ray Allen did when he signed with Miami.  

    [/QUOTE]

    BINGO COMRADE! that is exactly my point.. papi can be very vengeful when he feels disrepsepected. i can see him leavung for LESS money and terms just because the owner in balt called him up directly or offered a no-trade and post-playing contract or something like that. papi could easily pull an allen rather take more for less respect! 

    [/QUOTE]

    The assumption that, because the negotiations are taking a little time, this somehow equals disrespect is a little strange.  Papi, and more importantly, Papi's agent, are business people and I highly doubt they are offended at the Red Sox not just jumping in to ink a 37 year old injured DH to a multi year deal willy nilly.  No doubt, as due dilligence requires, Papi's camp came in with a number beyond what they would ultimately be willing to settle on.  Absolutely no reason for the Sox to just accept that figure.  Conversely, no reason for Papi's camp to play softball either.  These are high stakes negotiations.  Warm and fuzzies of Papi's Sox career and legacy etc. will come into play for an extra mil here or there.  But it is, in my estimation, silly to think that both sides were just going to have a big group hug and sign on the dotted line straight away.

    [/QUOTE]
    you are totally wrong space...the papi negotiations are not required to be, nor should it have been, a draining, brinksmanship negotiation....we know what he wanted, we know what he is worth, we know what he has done for us, and we know what the market will bear...this is a two year deal that should have been done the NEXT DAY after the manager was signed....instead we get this nonsense...over what, 5 million dollars?

    [/QUOTE]

    we don't know what the market will bear.  We don't know that it is a draining, brinksmanship negotiation (just looks like standard negotiating procedure to me).  We don't know what he wanted.  

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: ORTIZ will pull a RAY ALLEN!

    In response to georom4's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to susan250's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to COMMIECONTRARIAN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    i am BLAMING BEN for this.. IF I AM DUQUETTE I AM salivating, papi is exactly what they need here in baltimore. for pap its respect. to even debate even this proud man a 2 year deal is ridiculous. balt will give him a 2 year 20m deal with incentives where he could make up to $30m over the 2 year period with a autovesting option for a 3rd year.  

    [/QUOTE]
    Most of us believe that Ortiz will remain with the Red Sox.  Even if he signs with another team, you can't really compare it to Ray Allen.  Unless he decides to sign with another team for 1/2 of what the Red Sox would be willing to pay him.  That is what Ray Allen did when he signed with Miami.  

    [/QUOTE]

    BINGO COMRADE! that is exactly my point.. papi can be very vengeful when he feels disrepsepected. i can see him leavung for LESS money and terms just because the owner in balt called him up directly or offered a no-trade and post-playing contract or something like that. papi could easily pull an allen rather take more for less respect! 

    [/QUOTE]

    The assumption that, because the negotiations are taking a little time, this somehow equals disrespect is a little strange.  Papi, and more importantly, Papi's agent, are business people and I highly doubt they are offended at the Red Sox not just jumping in to ink a 37 year old injured DH to a multi year deal willy nilly.  No doubt, as due dilligence requires, Papi's camp came in with a number beyond what they would ultimately be willing to settle on.  Absolutely no reason for the Sox to just accept that figure.  Conversely, no reason for Papi's camp to play softball either.  These are high stakes negotiations.  Warm and fuzzies of Papi's Sox career and legacy etc. will come into play for an extra mil here or there.  But it is, in my estimation, silly to think that both sides were just going to have a big group hug and sign on the dotted line straight away.

    [/QUOTE]
    you are totally wrong space...the papi negotiations are not required to be, nor should it have been, a draining, brinksmanship negotiation....we know what he wanted, we know what he is worth, we know what he has done for us, and we know what the market will bear...this is a two year deal that should have been done the NEXT DAY after the manager was signed....instead we get this nonsense...over what, 5 million dollars?

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly right Geo.This should have been an easy no-brainer.If they drag out a simple negotiation like this for so long,how are they going to get a complicated one done?This just shows pettiness on the front office's part as far as I'm concerned.It should have been done and on to other business.

     
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