Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    They are over the threshold anyway  and if not Ortiz is going to put them there so this whole smoke screen of fiscal sanity with us is rediulous. Just tired of it spend a chunck of money and pick up somebody good as opposed to throwaways.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    Bobby V. said last night that adding another starter for his rotation is not a high priority for him, at all.  He likes what he has.  Why not just go to camp with roster and (perhaps) payroll flexibility and see how it all shakes out?  I'd rather that than give up three good prospects for Floyd.  If July comes around and Dice-K is not ready to come back and really help the rotation, then you pull the trigger on a trade.  Yeah, you overpay, but you also know better who looks like they fit in your long range plans better. Perhaps the Sox will target a SS if Oswalt and Jackson turn them down, rather than target Floyd?
    Posted by parhunter1

    I have been patiently reading and watching for the Sox to add that 4th starter. While Beckett has been good, his recent history to melt down, Buchholz injury bug  and lack of pitching over 200 innings consistently leaves me with the  comfort feeling that we only have one guy in the rotation who can be counted on to pitch the entire season. When you look at the rotation that way adding untested guys to the 4th and 5th slots, you are playing your way to a third or fourth place season if any of your top three guys fail to pitch a full season at the top of their game. The July trading deadline might be way too late.

    The addition of Bailey was clearly a good move, beyond that, the Sox have added some bench strength to the outfield/infield, traded away the only existing option at Shortstop.  Like the guys added to reclamation pitching deals, beyond Scutaro, the shortstop options are a roll of the dice, both of terms of season long viability and offensive/defensive predictability. At this point the performance of Mr. Cherrington has been uneven.
    Perhaps the bargain signings will catapult someone back from the scrap heap in spring training and we can do what the Yankees did last year, odds are long on that one though.
    As a Sox fan since, 1966, this has been the most confusing offseason I have observed in a long time. Perhaps, there is something serious developing that we are not aware of. I am not trying to be overly critical of my favorite team, just a bit underwhelmed and not very encouraged.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    wheres the hope????...the Tigers offered 2x as much....he's not coming here....i really dont understand the Scutaro trade now.... dumb
    Posted by georom4


    I think it's fairly easy to understand...

    1) Valentine was not a Scutaro advocate
    2) They have a few players ready to backfill at SS (Aviles, Iglesias,
    Punto)
    3) They used half that money to fill their RH bat in RF (Ross) and to cover for Crawford at the beginning of the season if he's not ready to play
    4) They are still in the market for another starter, not necessarily named Oswalt.

    Honestly, I think the Sox are happy with Aviles and this guy is going to be given every chance to be the starter at SS...the only thing to derail that would be Iglesias finding himself offensively a little more and snatching the job away.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In response to "Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?":
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : I have been patiently reading and watching for the Sox to add that 4th starter. While Beckett has been good, his recent history to melt down, Buchholz injury bug  and lack of pitching over 200 innings consistently leaves me with the  comfort feeling that we only have one guy in the rotation who can be counted on to pitch the entire season. When you look at the rotation that way adding untested guys to the 4th and 5th slots, you are playing your way to a third or fourth place season if any of your top three guys fail to pitch a full season at the top of their game. The July trading deadline might be way too late. The addition of Bailey was clearly a good move, beyond that, the Sox have added some bench strength to the outfield/infield, traded away the only existing option at Shortstop.  Like the guys added to reclamation pitching deals, beyond Scutaro, the shortstop options are a roll of the dice, both of terms of season long viability and offensive/defensive predictability. At this point the performance of Mr. Cherrington has been uneven. Perhaps the bargain signings will catapult someone back from the scrap heap in spring training and we can do what the Yankees did last year, odds are long on that one though. As a Sox fan since, 1966, this has been the most confusing offseason I have observed in a long time. Perhaps, there is something serious developing that we are not aware of. I am not trying to be overly critical of my favorite team, just a bit underwhelmed and not very encouraged. Posted by LeftyGrove
    This team won 89 games despite losing 2/5ths of their rotation for most of the season, they had the worst starter in baseball statistically, Youk had an injury plagued off year and they got next to nothing out of the corner outfield spots. This team won 2/3rd of their games over a 4 month stretch. This is a team that needs to be tweaked, not blown up. What would you have liked them to do?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In response to "Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?": This team won 89 games despite losing 2/5ths of their rotation for most of the season, they had the worst starter in baseball statistically, Youk had an injury plagued off year and they got next to nothing out of the corner outfield spots. This team won 2/3rd of their games over a 4 month stretch. This is a team that needs to be tweaked, not blown up. What would you have liked them to do?
    Posted by jasko2248

    Let's see where this team ends,if they make no other moves, Enough said on my part.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In response to "Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?": This team won 89 games despite losing 2/5ths of their rotation for most of the season, they had the worst starter in baseball statistically, Youk had an injury plagued off year and they got next to nothing out of the corner outfield spots. This team won 2/3rd of their games over a 4 month stretch. This is a team that needs to be tweaked, not blown up. What would you have liked them to do?
    Posted by jasko2248
    , IF you read my comments, all I wanted was a durable 4th starter.  That is what I said.  I question the viability of the pitching as it stands today. I  did not say blow up the team, did I?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/01/edwin-jackson-has-multiple-three-year-offers.html
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In response to "Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?":
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : , IF you read my comments, all I wanted was a durable 4th starter.  That is what I said.  I question the viability of the pitching as it stands today. I  did not say blow up the team, did I? Posted by LeftyGrove
    I understand your concern, but who is the durable starter you would like to see them get? By the way it's still only January. They clearly checked in on Garza and Floyd, but they are both supposedly asking for a ton, they made offers to Jackson and Oswalt, what are the other options? They even tried to get Felix Hernandez. You mentioned that you were "confused" with what they were doing and I just mentioned that there is no reason to panic and this team, if relatively healthy, should easily be in the hunt. As far as 4th starters go, I'm excited to see what a guy like Bard can do now that he is being given the opportunity...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : 1) The aforementioned cost savings. 2) The deal opens a spot in the rotation for St. Louis. 3) Lohse shouldn't be judged solely on his 2011 performance. No mention of 2010? And while his AL experience was a long time ago, I actually doubt Lohse has gotten all that much better since then. Also, we are talking about Bobby Jenks.  The table is one place he always shows up prepared...
    Posted by notin

    Given the dearth of starting pitching, I suspect the Cardinals would receive a better offer than Bobby Jenks for Kyle Lohse (assuming Lohse would waive his no-trade clause, which I can't imagine the righthander doing coming off a World Series title).
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    The Cardinals need a crowd-pleaser position player to keep their minds off losing Pujols - how about Ellsbury for Wainwright & Shelby Miller?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    The Cardinals need a crowd-pleaser position player to keep their minds off losing Pujols - how about Ellsbury for Wainwright & Shelby Miller?
    Posted by slomag
    Still trying to peddle Ellsbury, Boston's crowd-pleasing centerfielder.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : Still trying to peddle Ellsbury, Boston's crowd-pleasing centerfielder.
    Posted by expitch


    I think holding onto him will prove a mistake, but it doesn't look like he's going anywhere.

    The Sox have a lot of crowd-pleasers.  The Cards have Matt Holliday?  Yadier Molina?  I think they need him more than we do.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : I think holding onto him will prove a mistake, but it doesn't look like he's going anywhere. The Sox have a lot of crowd-pleasers.  The Cards have Matt Holliday?  Yadier Molina?  I think they need him more than we do.
    Posted by slomag


    wow...when i read post like this? we have crowd-pleasers? what the hell??? i don't care what the cards have...trading ellsbury is just stupid...ellsbury on this team makes us better....to say we have alot of crowd-pleasers just to make a trade is dumb...it's unreal...do you even like the red sox?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : I think it's fairly easy to understand... 1) Valentine was not a Scutaro advocate 2) They have a few players ready to backfill at SS (Aviles, Iglesias, Punto) 3) They used half that money to fill their RH bat in RF (Ross) and to cover for Crawford at the beginning of the season if he's not ready to play 4) They are still in the market for another starter, not necessarily named Oswalt. Honestly, I think the Sox are happy with Aviles and this guy is going to be given every chance to be the starter at SS...the only thing to derail that would be Iglesias finding himself offensively a little more and snatching the job away.
    Posted by Soxdog67


    aviles is not better than scutaro...dumping players to save money, or give it to your over the hill DH, is dumb....no team improves by signing garbage and lowering their costs....i agree that we have a good team and if the yanks, rangers, tigers, and angels had stood pat, and not improved their teams, then this would be ok - but they didnt, and we havent signed/promoted anyone better than the person they replaced....Oswalt was needed badly imho...we are talking 8 million...the amount they gifted to a washed up Smoltz, and Cameron - that was a pretty good bargain to get an Oswalt....

    there is no spinning this - Ben screwed up royally here


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from raider3524. Show raider3524's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : aviles is not better than scutaro...dumping players to save money, or give it to your over the hill DH, is dumb....no team improves by signing garbage and lowering their costs....i agree that we have a good team and if the yanks, rangers, tigers, and angels had stood pat, and not improved their teams, then this would be ok - but they didnt, and we havent signed/promoted anyone better than the person they replaced....Oswalt was needed badly imho...we are talking 8 million...the amount they gifted to a washed up Smoltz, and Cameron - that was a pretty good bargain to get an Oswalt.... there is no spinning this - Ben screwed up royally here
    Posted by georom4



    if oswalt does not want to play for the red sox...how did ben screw up? tigers offered him 10mil and he did not take it? is that on ben also?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : wow...when i read post like this? we have crowd-pleasers? what the hell??? i don't care what the cards have...trading ellsbury is just stupid...ellsbury on this team makes us better....to say we have alot of crowd-pleasers just to make a trade is dumb...it's unreal...do you even like the red sox?
    Posted by raider3524


    There are one of two outcomes with Ellsbury:  1) He performs at or above his 2011 level over the next two years or 2) His performance drops off.  If the latter, we lost an opportunity to get a substantial return.  If the former, we have at best 2 years of his service.  Do you really think the Sox will outbid teams that need LH hitters, and speed, and would slot Ellsbury in the #3 hole, where his SLG is more important than his OBP?  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    If St. Louis signs Roy Oswalt, would the Cardinals try to trade one of Chris Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, Jaime Garcia, Kyle Lohse or Jake Westbrook? Would the Red Sox be interested in any of those starters? If so, whom could the Sox offer in trade?
    Posted by hill55


    Wainwright isn't 100% healthy after surgery.  Oswalt offers protection just in case.  He also wants to be in St. Louis and the NL.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : aviles is not better than scutaro...dumping players to save money, or give it to your over the hill DH, is dumb....no team improves by signing garbage and lowering their costs....i agree that we have a good team and if the yanks, rangers, tigers, and angels had stood pat, and not improved their teams, then this would be ok - but they didnt, and we havent signed/promoted anyone better than the person they replaced....Oswalt was needed badly imho...we are talking 8 million...the amount they gifted to a washed up Smoltz, and Cameron - that was a pretty good bargain to get an Oswalt.... there is no spinning this - Ben screwed up royally here
    Posted by georom4


    Nobody said that Aviles was better or worse or the same as Scutaro...but honestly, Aviles might be just as good a hitter as Scutaro - but time will tell with that.

    Scutaro was dumped for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Plain and simple.

    As others have stated, maybe the issue is that Oswalt does not want to play in Boston - PERIOD...and I do not expect BC to overspend to try to convince him to play here.

    In 2011 the Red Sox were the big spenders, and here we are a year later whining that they're not bringing in a bunch of players that have question marks next to their names...we've made those mistakes enough already.

    The Angels and Tigers now can climb up the fat cat ladder with the Yanks and Sox...and to say the Yanks and Rangers have greatly improved themselves is marginal at best right now...on paper what they did looks good between Darvish, Pineda and Kuroda but let's see how they do on the field before anointing those teams as making great strides for 2012.

    Who says Padilla or Silva might not rebound and be similar to Kuroda? Who knows if Darvish is equivalent to Dice-K...Pineda probably is the best of the group and he cost the Yanks their top prospect. But still a good move by them.

    The Sox moved Reddick to get Bailey which I feel was also a good move by them. So the grass isn't always greener.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from LeftyGrove. Show LeftyGrove's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In response to "Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?": I understand your concern, but who is the durable starter you would like to see them get? By the way it's still only January. They clearly checked in on Garza and Floyd, but they are both supposedly asking for a ton, they made offers to Jackson and Oswalt, what are the other options? They even tried to get Felix Hernandez. You mentioned that you were "confused" with what they were doing and I just mentioned that there is no reason to panic and this team, if relatively healthy, should easily be in the hunt. As far as 4th starters go, I'm excited to see what a guy like Bard can do now that he is being given the opportunity...
    Posted by jasko2248

    I hear what you are saying, but I ask , what is the roadblock to signing Oswalt to a one year deal? If it is money, even with the tax perhaps an issue, why? are we comfortable with the starting three remaining healthy all year?   I am also looking forward to see what Bard can do, but.... we are looking forward to what he can do.... not what will happen, an ocean of uncertainty. That is my reason for concern and caution. I would hope money is not the issue in signing a fourth starter. My hopeful side says we will compete for a playoff spot, my realistic side is still concerned about the rotation. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    From 2011...
    - Papelbon  Bad
    - Lackey      Good
    - Drew          Good
    - Wake          OK
    - VTek           OK
    - Bedard      OK
    - Wheeler    OK
    - Lowrie       OK
    - Reddick     OK
    - Weiland    Good
    - Atchison   OK
    - Cam, Connor Jackson, Oki, Navvaro  Good, good, good, & good

    + Bailey        Good
    + Melancon  Good 
    + Cody Ross Good
    + Sweeney   OK
    + Punto         OK
    + Shoppach  OK
    and...
    + full seasons by Buch, Youk, Aviles, Morales, Doubront, & Tazawa. 
    and...
    + maybe better from Dice-K, Jenks ... 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : I hear what you are saying, but I ask , what is the roadblock to signing Oswalt to a one year deal? If it is money, even with the tax perhaps an issue, why? are we comfortable with the starting three remaining healthy all year?   I am also looking forward to see what Bard can do, but.... we are looking forward to what he can do.... not what will happen, an ocean of uncertainty. That is my reason for concern and caution. I would hope money is not the issue in signing a fourth starter. My hopeful side says we will compete for a playoff spot, my realistic side is still concerned about the rotation. 
    Posted by LeftyGrove

    I suspect that Roy Oswalt does not want to come to Boston. Oswalt reportedly wants to stay nearer his Mississippi home and, who knows, perhaps the righthander perceives a lack of professionalism in the Red Sox clubhouse.

    Then again:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC7K6jyHp9w

    ... and:

    http://www.cafepress.com/+phillies-roy-oswalt+steins
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : if oswalt does not want to play for the red sox...how did ben screw up? tigers offered him 10mil and he did not take it? is that on ben also?
    Posted by raider3524


    the sox offered him 5 million...that was dumb...who cares what the Tigers did? if the sox wanted him, they could have had him for enough cash - and what he was asking for just one year, was perfect for our cash conscious team....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP? : Nobody said that Aviles was better or worse or the same as Scutaro...but honestly, Aviles might be just as good a hitter as Scutaro - but time will tell with that. Scutaro was dumped for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Plain and simple. As others have stated, maybe the issue is that Oswalt does not want to play in Boston - PERIOD...and I do not expect BC to overspend to try to convince him to play here. In 2011 the Red Sox were the big spenders, and here we are a year later whining that they're not bringing in a bunch of players that have question marks next to their names...we've made those mistakes enough already. The Angels and Tigers now can climb up the fat cat ladder with the Yanks and Sox...and to say the Yanks and Rangers have greatly improved themselves is marginal at best right now...on paper what they did looks good between Darvish, Pineda and Kuroda but let's see how they do on the field before anointing those teams as making great strides for 2012. Who says Padilla or Silva might not rebound and be similar to Kuroda? Who knows if Darvish is equivalent to Dice-K...Pineda probably is the best of the group and he cost the Yanks their top prospect. But still a good move by them. The Sox moved Reddick to get Bailey which I feel was also a good move by them. So the grass isn't always greener.
    Posted by Soxdog67


    Aviles is going to hit better than .300? I suppose he is going to win the Gold Glove at ss next year too...the sox moved reddick to get Bailey to replace him for Paps, who they let walk because they didnt want to pay him.....losing two starters last yr to sign up a guy who isnt as good as the guy he replaces?

    the bootlicking here just gets crazier and crazier...stop the spinning please...


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    Aviles is going to hit better than .300?

    Umm... Aviles hit .317 with Boston last year and Scoot never has. Scoot's career average with Boston is .284, and he's getting older.  Aviles has a career BA of .288, and he is still in his prime window.

     I suppose he is going to win the Gold Glove at ss next year too...

    Not even close, but he's certainly a better fielder than Scoot.

    the sox moved reddick to get Bailey to replace him for Paps, who they let walk because they didnt want to pay him.....

    You really think Paps was worth more than $50M/4?

    losing two starters last yr to sign up a guy who isnt as good as the guy he replaces?

    Huh?

    the bootlicking here just gets crazier and crazier...stop the spinning please..

    You're spinning and spinning out of control.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?

    In Response to Re: Oswalt to Cardinals, does Ben still go for a SP?:
    The Cardinals need a crowd-pleaser position player to keep their minds off losing Pujols - how about Ellsbury for Wainwright & Shelby Miller?
    Posted by slomag


    Don't think Cards would do that.  If Wainwright is reasonably healthy, he's a reasonable start for Ellsbury.  A year ago, the Cards would've laughed at Ell for Wainwright straightup.
     
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