PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Paps has not tailed off at all as many predicted (myself included)  but a great closer is not as valuable as a good starter and i would have rather seen the money spent that way

     



    I don't think people expected him to tail off 1.25 years into a 4+1 contract.  The biggest issue is that most of the posters assessing FAs look at his first year and say 'we should've signed him'.  Most contracts are good in the early portion.

     

    Paps did very well in 2011, so I would expect him to do well in 2012.  But just like Teixeira, Gonzo, ARod, Ryan Howard, Carlos Lee, Helton, etc., the damage is almost always done in the latter half of the contract.



    I thought he was going to tail off immediately Notin - the indicators were there (sort of) - but the Phils prove my point that a great closer on a so so staff is not that important

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to ImagydSportsBos's comment:

     

    like with the celtics, its always amazing to me y many like to break up success and greatness in the "hopes" of getting better somehow esp when injuries and fate play a bigger role than pure talent or coaching or stats of right now. about the grind of attrition. how has the revolving greedy door at SS worked out? how did closa by committee work out? to me, you get a guy in there who proves he can handle the toughest position in the toughest home market in the nation , u give him extra points for that. guy was the second best when he was here (after mariano). plus he stopped getting hurt and took pride in being available. one blown save can entirely ruin a team's psyche and confidence, y risk it? 4 years a t 113m was a STEAL. even for philly if going nowhere, still worth having a guy like him to run out there for the few victories you do want. not everyone can close in boston or philly or NY.. period!

    all that said, i like our guys in taz and koji and even bailey when healthy. but compared to pap, all 3 of those guys are shaky in terms of availability and ultimate big game performance. 1-0 game, ga,e 7 of the ALCS, you want tazawa out there over a pap? come on!

     



    Yes, I always thought he would recover some of his old glory in the NL.  New hitters that may not be as good, or know him well was a huge factor in my opinion.  The top hitters in the AL were beginning to sit on and tag his fastball more often when we let him walk.  

     

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. This post has been removed.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. This post has been removed.

     
  10. This post has been removed.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    not surprised at all.  unfortunately for Paps...the last few times he was on the bump in PO's or "play-in" game for the Sox he walked off with his head down after a stinker.  he had to go because of this.  wish him nothing but the best (except for the 3 or 4 times a year he may face the Sox).....

     
  12. This post has been removed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slasher9. Show slasher9's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to Bill-806's comment:

    In response to georom4's comment:

     

    Paps has not tailed off at all as many predicted (myself included)  but a great closer is not as valuable as a good starter and i would have rather seen the money spent that way

     

    Not to mention, NATIONAL LEAGUE !!


     




    this only really comes into effect for a starters ERA.  closers dont really face the opposing teams pitcher, you know?  rumor has it they do this "pinch hitting" thing.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Yeah, not surprised.  What will surprise me is if he is still sharp down the stretch, in September (if the Phillies are in contention at that point).  The contract that Papelbon got, and the Sox were not willing to give, was based on his ability to get it done when the chips were all on the table.  I am not sure he has the gas in the tank to get through a whole year blowing people away.  

    More significantly to me than this water under the bridge is:  anyone want a re-do on Hamrahan?  Melancon has been lights out in Pittsburgh.  I know, I know, National League/small market and all that.  But Mark came back tough as nails last year: his recovery from suck-itis having gone barely noticed in the putrid rigomortis of August/September 2012.  

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    Yeah, not surprised.  What will surprise me is if he is still sharp down the stretch, in September (if the Phillies are in contention at that point).  The contract that Papelbon got, and the Sox were not willing to give, was based on his ability to get it done when the chips were all on the table.  I am not sure he has the gas in the tank to get through a whole year blowing people away.  

    More significantly to me than this water under the bridge is:  anyone want a re-do on Hamrahan?  Melancon has been lights out in Pittsburgh.  I know, I know, National League/small market and all that.  But Mark came back tough as nails last year: his recovery from suck-itis having gone barely noticed in the putrid rigomortis of August/September 2012.  




    He was also pretty good in Houston.

    He had a couple of games in Aug. where he gave up multiple runs in an inning or less.

    While he had a good Sept, he was used mostly in losing efforts.

    No saves, no holds.

    Not that the Sox had many late-game wining situations by then.

    It could also be argued that the pressure was off the team by them anyway.

    They weren't exactly fighting for a playoff spot.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    Yeah, not surprised.  What will surprise me is if he is still sharp down the stretch, in September (if the Phillies are in contention at that point).  The contract that Papelbon got, and the Sox were not willing to give, was based on his ability to get it done when the chips were all on the table.  I am not sure he has the gas in the tank to get through a whole year blowing people away.  

    More significantly to me than this water under the bridge is:  anyone want a re-do on Hamrahan?  Melancon has been lights out in Pittsburgh.  I know, I know, National League/small market and all that.  But Mark came back tough as nails last year: his recovery from suck-itis having gone barely noticed in the putrid rigomortis of August/September 2012.  

     




    He was also pretty good in Houston.

     

    He had a couple of games in Aug. where he gave up multiple runs in an inning or less.

    While he had a good Sept, he was used mostly in losing efforts.

    No saves, no holds.

    Not that the Sox had many late-game wining situations by then.

    It could also be argued that the pressure was off the team by them anyway.

    They weren't exactly fighting for a playoff spot.



    All true.  But given his promising start in NY, his hoss-ness in Houston, and his retrun to semblance-of-hoss-ness, whether under any pressure or not, was worth keeping him around to me.  Of course, the Pirates also saw that worthiness and were willing to part with their closer for him.  I just think there wasn't enough homework put into that particular deal.  My pirates friends were all fine with letting Joel go.  The pirates announcers had dubbed his closing appearances "Hanrattacks", even at his career apex last year.  

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:

     

    Yeah, not surprised.  What will surprise me is if he is still sharp down the stretch, in September (if the Phillies are in contention at that point).  The contract that Papelbon got, and the Sox were not willing to give, was based on his ability to get it done when the chips were all on the table.  I am not sure he has the gas in the tank to get through a whole year blowing people away.  

    More significantly to me than this water under the bridge is:  anyone want a re-do on Hamrahan?  Melancon has been lights out in Pittsburgh.  I know, I know, National League/small market and all that.  But Mark came back tough as nails last year: his recovery from suck-itis having gone barely noticed in the putrid rigomortis of August/September 2012.  

     




    He was also pretty good in Houston.

     

    He had a couple of games in Aug. where he gave up multiple runs in an inning or less.

    While he had a good Sept, he was used mostly in losing efforts.

    No saves, no holds.

    Not that the Sox had many late-game wining situations by then.

    It could also be argued that the pressure was off the team by them anyway.

    They weren't exactly fighting for a playoff spot.

     



    All true.  But given his promising start in NY, his hoss-ness in Houston, and his retrun to semblance-of-hoss-ness, whether under any pressure or not, was worth keeping him around to me.  Of course, the Pirates also saw that worthiness and were willing to part with their closer for him.  I just think there wasn't enough homework put into that particular deal.  My pirates friends were all fine with letting Joel go.  The pirates announcers had dubbed his closing appearances "Hanrattacks", even at his career apex last year.  

     


    LOL
    Ouch!

    I didn't know much about Hanrahan (and wish I still didn't), but I wasn't upset about letting Melancon go.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    Papelbon may be doing great..and I wish him well..but lets not forget it was his choice to leave. The Sox could have offered him more in my opinion..but what they offered him was fair. Plus..I think he wanted to move on. Part of me thinks that no matter what the Sox did to keep him...it would not have been enough. He didn't seem happy here his last year.

    I always thought he was a bit of a head case..but his talent made up for it somewhat. I wasn't crying any tears when he left.



    I agree with you.  Papelbon didn't want to resign with the Red Sox.  I believe that even if the Red Sox had matched Philadelphia's offer he still would have left.  

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ImagydSportsBos. Show ImagydSportsBos's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    guess many now know how great he is after tonight!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 67redsox. Show 67redsox's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    Pap pitches in the NL where the line up is not as tough as in the AL.  He is a good closer but the NL helps these guys out.

     
  21. This post has been removed.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    The talent gap between the leagues has closed considerably. To continue to think of the NL as inferior is to deny the results. Things change and you need to pay attention, instead of just sticking with the past. As far as NL hitters having to adjust to Papelbon , that is absurd. Baseball is baseball. Papelbon is not trying to fool anyone. Basically , he just challenges the batter with fastballs. Why is it so hard to admit that the Sox sorely miss Papelbon, and have not come close to replacing him despite spending plenty in trying to? It could not be more obvious to any objective observer.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: PAPELBON has allowed ZERO runs in 16 innings, 8 for 8 in saves, did anyone else imagine he would still be this great?

    I could see him and cliff Lee being available at the deadline. I would make a play for Paps. I wanted to offer him close to what hes getting anyway. My offer was 4/48 with a 5th vesting option year. The question is what do you think the going rate for a closer with a big contract is in terms of prospects and how much money philly possibly eats? The less $$ they eat the less of a prospect haul they get. We have 19 prospects that are rule-5 eligible this year, so were going to probably lose a few regardless, so why not get something for them.

    Maybe a guy like Bailey to take over for paps in the short term. He comes cheap and under control for 1 more year. Lavarnway. They have no catchers except for 33yr old Kratz and 34 yr old Quintero and the Sox have Vasquez. Depending on who the Sox see as the future SS, they could give up one of the other ones. Philly looks like they could use a catcher, SS, OF and obviously everyone can use pitching. I just dont think Paps is worth a top line starter. maybe a middle/back of the rotation type guy like Brandon Workman. I dont know, just some food for thought.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share