Papelbon worth every cent

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent : Fair enough.  but let us not forget that Papelbon hasn't earned anything yet as a Phil.  8 saves makes Phils fans happy?  nah.  It makes them comfortable.  But, Phillies fans are not thinking about how much of a hoss their closer is in April.  The last 2 times the Sox had to win to keep the season alive, the season ended on papelbon's watch.  Last year to the Orioles.  I'm thinking the Phillies fans will keep the verdict out on their 15 million dollar a year closer until he closes a big  money game.
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]
    True , last year ended badly. Still , it was only his third blown save of the year. To be fair , both Pap and Bard were pretty worn down at the end , due to the total inability of the starters to ever pitch a complete game. And , Pap has closed out a number of big money games in his career.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent : True , last year ended badly. Still , it was only his third blown save of the year. To be fair , both Pap and Bard were pretty worn down at the end , due to the total inability of the starters to ever pitch a complete game. And , Pap has closed out a number of big money games in his career.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Yes d.  he has.  but, that was a long time ago in a galaxy far far away.  My own feeling is that, in those big money games, guys can load up on him now in a way they couldn't way, way back in 2007, 2008.  Back then, they could guess fastball and it really didn't matter.  Now, it matters.  I think that is what the Sox brass see too.  And, his usage last year doesn't really have much to do with starters not throwing complete games.  no one throws complete games anymore.  Last year was the least amount of appearances he had had since 2007.  He was gassed because he can't sustain throwing that hard for that long anymore.  
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    I went back and looked at the games' box scores and believe Aceves' one bad game, a blown save, was at Detroit, game two, when he gave up a 3 run lead in the 9th.  He was charged with a blown save in the 15-9 debacle against the Yankees, but that was a group effort with plenty of blame to spread around.   

    Since then, however, he has three 1 run saves and a total of 5 (of 7).  We have seen him throw heat almost exclusively, and we have seen him mixed in breaking stuff, which means he is versatile, more so than Pap ever was. 

    As I wrote earlier, Pap going to the NL was not only the right move for him, but almost inevitable.  Had he stayed in Boston and the AL East, he would not have been worth anywhere near the salary he is getting with the Phillies. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

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    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I wonder how much the red sox had to do with his leaving. He made it pretty clear by cleaning out his locker and leaving ASAP after his last blown save he wanted no part of boston. How many long term deals offered by the sox were turned down. I think he wanted away from Beckett and Lackley and the attitude/cancer they spread throughout the organization. Do I wish he had stayed? Hell yes. Would I have paid him what Philly paid him? Hell yes. But, again, I wonder if it mattered. This team gave off a stench in September and you can still smell it today. Paps doesn't have to smell it any longer.
    Posted by teddybaseball009[/QUOTE]

    I really hate comments like that.  You have not a shred of evidence, or at least you don't include any, that Beckett and Lackey were a cancer and if they were a problem, that it impacted Pap. By all accounts, Lackey was a good clubhouse guy.  And I hate Lackey.

    If anything, I would think he had a problem with ownership.  I think a lot of players had a problem with ownership last year.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    All I've got to say about Papelbon is I really hope he's on the hill when Papi comes striding to the plate in the 9th inning of a close game. That would be high theater. Other than that he doesn't play for the Red Sox anymore and hasn't since he blew the save against Baltimore. He's a Phillie now and we might all want to think about moving on.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

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    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent : I really hate comments like that.  You have not a shred of evidence, or at least you don't include any, that Beckett and Lackey were a cancer and if they were a problem, that it impacted Pap. By all accounts, Lackey was a good clubhouse guy.  And I hate Lackey. If anything, I would think he had a problem with ownership.  I think a lot of players had a problem with ownership last year.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover[/QUOTE]

    Beckett called lackey his "hero"....hmmm....me first prima donna who gained weight like a pig emulting his hero??? do you really need "proof" that the Boston starting rotation was fat, lazy, and stupid?? get real
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    There's no right answer on this one because it's way too early.  I thought Papelbon was a great closer, though some of his recent big-game performances were certainly disappointing.  I think people underestimate him in some ways.  I think he is now a very dedicated and motivated athlete, and I would not bet against him having 4 seasons for the Phillies as one of the top closers in baseball.

    Durability is a big factor.  Look at all the closers on the long-term DL, including Bailey. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

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    I think Pap could have four terrific years in Philly and the Sox would still be right.  He needed to move to the NL and knew it, so all he needed was a good offer.  Right now I like what I see in Aceves, and he is a whole lot cheaper.  Meanwhile, the money saved from not keeping Pap allowed Ben C to re-sign Ortiz, who only just completed the best April in his career. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

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    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I think Pap could have four terrific years in Philly and the Sox would still be right.  He needed to move to the NL and knew it, so all he needed was a good offer.  Right now I like what I see in Aceves, and he is a whole lot cheaper.  Meanwhile, the money saved from not keeping Pap allowed Ben C to re-sign Ortiz, who only just completed the best April in his career. 
    Posted by maxbialystock[/QUOTE]And I'll definitely take Papi over Pap. Heck I'd take Papi over anybody in MLB right now.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Papi's been awesome.  But our bullpen has been gruesome.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

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    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]Papi's been awesome.  But our bullpen has been gruesome.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]True enough about the bullpen. I think there's more there than we've seen as of yet though. Aceves looks like a guy who could really settle into the closer role. I also like Franklin Morales and color me loco Vicente Padilla. Rich Hill just came up too and I think he'll be death on lefties. If Cook can provide some high quality long relief innings we could have a pretty good bullpen by July. And with the way Papi's been hitting we're not going to fall out of the race anytime soon.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from teamguy. Show teamguy's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    I want to see how Aceves performs for an entire season before I proclaim what caliber closer he is.  I 'had' seen that from Papelbon many times over and, to me, he's 'worth' the 12.5M.

    Is any player 'worth' a certain amount of money? Crawford isn't.  Lackey isn't. Daisuke isn't. But they paid anyway.  Boston has a lot of problems, but money isn't one of them.

    Known quantities are good things to have in baseball and the FO blew it by letting him walk.  The bullpen was like watching the Bad News Bears at the beginning of the season.  Some of them are getting their sea legs now, but let's see how it pans out.

    cheers.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I want to see how Aceves performs for an entire season before I proclaim what caliber closer he is.  I 'had' seen that from Papelbon many times over and, to me, he's 'worth' the 12.5M. Is any player 'worth' a certain amount of money? Crawford isn't.  Lackey isn't. Daisuke isn't. But they paid anyway.  Boston has a lot of problems, but money isn't one of them. Known quantities are good things to have in baseball and the FO blew it by letting him walk.  The bullpen was like watching the Bad News Bears at the beginning of the season.  Some of them are getting their sea legs now, but let's see how it pans out. cheers.
    Posted by teamguy[/QUOTE]That's all I'm saying too. I said he looks like a guy who could settle in at closer and I stand by that. Will he be another Mo? That would be nice. Aceves is only making 1.2 this year as opposede to Pap's 12.5. If Pap were back with the Red Sox Papi wouldn't be, and I'll take Papi thank you very much.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    I'm not claiming Aceves is a world beater, but am claiming Papelbon would only have saved one game--to date--Aceves did not save. To me that ain't worth the extra $10.5M or whatever. I completely agree the season is very young, but that also applies to Pap, who was lights out early on for Boston.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    as soon as the NL sees paps tired fastball once around, his ERA will rise....these folks crying about the closwer position are hilariious....Aceves will save more games this year than paps did last yr...count on it
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    If Papelbon was closing Aceves would be pitching in the 7th and 8th and probably doing the same kind of great job he did last year.  Let's not kid ourselves, our bullpen is downgraded.  Obviously a healthy Bailey and an effective Melancon would have helped a lot.  But it is what it is.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

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    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]If Papelbon was closing Aceves would be pitching in the 7th and 8th and probably doing the same kind of great job he did last year.  Let's not kid ourselves, our bullpen is downgraded.  Obviously a healthy Bailey and an effective Melancon would have helped a lot.  But it is what it is.
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]All true, C'est vraie. However to me it's time to move on. The Cards had no closer until like July last year, and they did pretty well. It looks to me too like Big Papi might be on an Albert kind of roll this year. I think you might like what you see out of Ace by September too. All I'm saying is take heart my friend, the fight's not done yet.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    Didn't care for Paps, glad he's gone, he did well here but his last two big time situations, against the Os and Angels, he lost both; plus, way too much dough for a closer.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

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    In response to "Re: Papelbon worth every cent": [QUOTE]If Papelbon was closing Aceves would be pitching in the 7th and 8th and probably doing the same kind of great job he did last year.  Let's not kid ourselves, our bullpen is downgraded.  Obviously a healthy Bailey and an effective Melancon would have helped a lot.  But it is what it is. Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE] Actually, in the last ten games the bullpen has gone 29 innings while giving up 2 runs, neither of which hurt. Without Bard or Papelbon. And then new guy tonight looked pretty good. Time will tell, of course, but I found it hard to like last years bullpen when they were blowing six of nine saves in September. Bard weakened in September, and Papelbon was hardly great.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]I agree.   The problem is the Red Sox mindset on the closing position.  The Sox feel anyone can close and still do.  Remember the closer by committee.  LMAO.  The other thing the Sox need to realize is everyone can't play in Boston.  When you have a guy who can handle Boston and has a proven track record in the AL east, you need to pay him and keep him on the team.  Forget free agents like Lackey, Crawford, etc.  They are not worth the money and never will be, I like the low cost guys like Ross, Aceves, etc...you can bring in a few and hit on one or two to go with your stars.  
    Posted by Mchampion[/QUOTE]

    The fact that you set it uop this way in fact proves you do NOT remember closer by commitee.

    And a few other problems with your post.

    1.  You prefer guys who can "handle Boston" but don't want to spend for costly free agents.  Do you realize that the Sox don't have Beckett and Youkilis right now, who clearly can "handle Boston," but are not able to play and this is part of the problem.

    2.  Is Crawford's problem that he cannot "handle Boston"?   You don't suppose the bad wrist had anything to do with it?  Or is he having Boston Nerves implanted this offseason?

    3.  By the way, does any fan who thinks "handling Boston" is actual pressure moreso than trying to keep an MLB job in other cities actually realize that they are admitting to be part of the problem?  Maybe the real problem is that Boston has too many fans who cannot handle baseball?

    For example, the whole "Edgar Renteria couldn't handle Boston" myth is the most laughable.  So the kid who grew up in the streets of Bogota, Columbia - a city that makes Roxbury look like the French Riviera - who struggled to get noticed, dealt with con artist agents, dealt with the pressure of rising to the top in the minors, battled to stay on an MLB roster, and once struck a walkoff hit to win the World Series - something only 4 batters in MLB history have done.  Yet somehow Red Sox fans think he got ruffled in Boston because some guy wrote a bad thing about him in a newspaper in a language Renteria doesn't even speak unless he has to. 

    Some Sox fans need to get over themselves...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    CoolIn Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent : The fact that you set it uop this way in fact proves you do NOT remember closer by commitee. And a few other problems with your post. 1.  You prefer guys who can "handle Boston" but don't want to spend for costly free agents.  Do you realize that the Sox don't have Beckett and Youkilis right now, who clearly can "handle Boston," but are not able to play and this is part of the problem. 2.  Is Crawford's problem that he cannot "handle Boston"?   You don't suppose the bad wrist had anything to do with it?  Or is he having Boston Nerves implanted this offseason? 3.  By the way, does any fan who thinks "handling Boston" is actual pressure moreso than trying to keep an MLB job in other cities actually realize that they are admitting to be part of the problem?  Maybe the real problem is that Boston has too many fans who cannot handle baseball? For example, the whole "Edgar Renteria couldn't handle Boston" myth is the most laughable.  So the kid who grew up in the streets of Bogota, Columbia - a city that makes Roxbury look like the French Riviera - who struggled to get noticed, dealt with con artist agents, dealt with the pressure of rising to the top in the minors, battled to stay on an MLB roster, and once struck a walkoff hit to win the World Series - something only 4 batters in MLB history have done.  Yet somehow Red Sox fans think he got ruffled in Boston because some guy wrote a bad thing about him in a newspaper in a language Renteria doesn't even speak unless he has to.  Some Sox fans need to get over themselves...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent : All true, C'est vraie. However to me it's time to move on. The Cards had no closer until like July last year, and they did pretty well. It looks to me too like Big Papi might be on an Albert kind of roll this year. I think you might like what you see out of Ace by September too. All I'm saying is take heart my friend, the fight's not done yet.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]
     Hey, I pretty much agree with your post but I think it's c'est vrai not "c'est vraie" (went to school in France some years back). Sorry about the nitpicking!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    In Response to Re: Papelbon worth every cent:
    [QUOTE]Papelbon is an elite closer. Not perfect , by any means , but still one of the best. The Sox could not compete for his services due to the money spent/wasted on the Crawford, Lackey and Jenks contracts. Like it or not , that is a fact. There is no sense crying about it now, or demeaning Pap. Have to move on. Aceves looks like he can do a good job , probably better than Bailey would have done. But there is absolutely no question that Papelbon is missed.
    Posted by dgalehouse[/QUOTE]

    Exactly.  I thought keeping Paps was a must but the contract he got was out of our price range given what we gave the StrawMan.......Also, I don't think his tenure is going to end well there....too long of a contract......
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from stuartr29. Show stuartr29's posts

    Re: Papelbon worth every cent

    8 for 8 in April and May is nice but it's those big ones in September and October then we will see if it was a mistake to let him go.
     
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