Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    When choosing whether or not to sign Papelbon this offseason, the real question for the team is how do they feel with Daniel Bard as the closer? 15 million or so a year for a closer is a lot of money, money that can be spent elsewhere in the future (such as looking for a right fielder, or shoring up the rotation when Matsusaka is off contract), but that doesn't make this a no brainer.

    The question that the front office should be asking themselves I now pose to all of you. How comfortable would you be with Daniel Bard closing day in and day out?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    There's another issue here that might be overlooked.  Bard is now probably one of the premier set-up guys in baseball.  If he can take over as closer it might save the team the $15 million, but they also have to replace him as set-up guy, and that could take up a chunk of it.  Maybe Jenks could replace him, but right now that looks iffy. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    I'm more and more thinking the FO should resign Papelbon, do we have any near-impact pitchers in the farm that could take an immediate role in the 'pen like Bard did? This doesn't count guys like Doubrant who really should continue to develop as a starter.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]I'm more and more thinking the FO should resign Papelbon, do we have any near-impact pitchers in the farm that could take an immediate role in the 'pen like Bard did? This doesn't count guys like Doubrant who really should continue to develop as a starter.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    I think it should include people you you deem should continue as a starter.  Afterall, Bard had been starting (prior to a move to the pen).
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    Wrong question. How comfortable would you be by turning 2 elite league pen arms into just 1. Not very comfortable.

    If they decide not to go two years at a premium base, they need to have a backup plan to get another elite league pen arm. No, Theo, that's not covering value mistakes that have blown the payroll up off the charts, by looking in the dumpsters of other GM's.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]Wrong question. How comfortable would you be by turning 2 elite league pen arms into just 1. Not very comfortable. If they decide not to go two years at a premium base, they need to have a backup plan to get another elite league pen arm. No, Theo, that's not covering value mistakes that have blown the payroll up off the charts, by looking in the dumpsters of other GM's.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]
    I believe that if you think Bard would do a better job than Paps, there is no reason to resign Paps, the money spent there could be spent elsewhere. The Yankees currently have the best pen by looking at ERA. It is not full of big contract guys sans Mo. When constructing a pen, you get a closer, and if you're lucky, a setup guy, and build from there.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    What do you know about constructing a pen? Who said anything about "big contract guys"? The Yankees have two big contract guys, one is on the DL. It's early June, so painting a pen by Yankee numbers shows how misguided and clueless you are.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]What do you know about constructing a pen? Who said anything about "big contract guys"? The Yankees have two big contract guys, one is on the DL. It's early June, so painting a pen by Yankee numbers shows how misguided and clueless you are.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]
    Personal attacks do nothing but take away any credit you wish to have.

    ERA and WHIP are the primary ways to look at pitching success, unless you think the numbers are outliers in which case you should look at things like BABIP, K/9, Walks/9, however that doesn't change how well the pitchers did. Right now the Yankees bullpen has performed the best in the league due to a low ERA and WHIP. Period.

    Your knowledge of constructing a pen is no greater than mine, as we are all posters on a public forum, chances are we are not GM's or Managers. You can take your lies and slander elsewhere, topics I create are for conversation, not for your lies and psychotic rants.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaffyDan. Show DaffyDan's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement : Personal attacks do nothing but take away any credit you wish to have. ERA and WHIP are the primary ways to look at pitching success, unless you think the numbers are outliers in which case you should look at things like BABIP, K/9, Walks/9, however that doesn't change how well the pitchers did. Right now the Yankees bullpen has performed the best in the league due to a low ERA and WHIP. Period. Your knowledge of constructing a pen is no greater than mine, as we are all posters on a public forum, chances are we are not GM's or Managers. You can take your lies and slander elsewhere, topics I create are for conversation, not for your lies and psychotic rants.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    You just poked it with a stick....

    -Daf. 

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    Your premise is totally flawed. It's not about replacing Papelbon with Bard, it's about replacing Papelbon with another quality pen arm in a pen that hardly has had depth in qaulity. Cry and whine about it all you want, your thread is polyanish and out to lunch.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from 1for89. Show 1for89's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement : Personal attacks do nothing but take away any credit you wish to have. ERA and WHIP are the primary ways to look at pitching success, unless you think the numbers are outliers in which case you should look at things like BABIP, K/9, Walks/9, however that doesn't change how well the pitchers did. Right now the Yankees bullpen has performed the best in the league due to a low ERA and WHIP. Period. Your knowledge of constructing a pen is no greater than mine, as we are all posters on a public forum, chances are we are not GM's or Managers. You can take your lies and slander elsewhere, topics I create are for conversation, not for your lies and psychotic rants.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]

    Re: Battle for 1st place Sox @ Yankees -Your Predictions

    posted at 6/6/2011 10:06 AM EDT
     
    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=56a518097c6ae48ff7ed76858b4f8a16&plckUserId=56a518097c6ae48ff7ed76858b4f8a16">
    Posts: 196
    First: 5/22/2011
    Last: 6/7/2011
    In Response to Re: Battle for 1st place Sox @ Yankees -Your Predictions:
    Well since everyone else is basing their predictions off starting pitching, I have to say the Sox have done a good job to get runs later in the game and finish games off(except for that horrid White Sox series). However the Yanks pitching has been very good and their pen haven't been giving up many leads lately.  The way A-Gon, Ortiz and Crawford have been hitting I think this team has a chance to put up as many runs as the Yanks. I think guys like Pedroia and Lester will step it up for this series and the Sox will go 2-1. Although I will be happy as long as the Sox don't get swept.
    Posted by freediro

    I'm basing things off SP because our hitting is pretty much even, both lineups rake, and both 'pens have been shown to be able to do well, or suck.

    Re: Battle for 1st place Sox @ Yankees -Your Predictions

    posted at 6/6/2011 10:23 AM EDT
     
    www.boston.com/community/persona.html?UID=56a518097c6ae48ff7ed76858b4f8a16&plckUserId=56a518097c6ae48ff7ed76858b4f8a16">
    Posts: 196
    First: 5/22/2011
    Last: 6/7/2011
    In Response to Re: Battle for 1st place Sox @ Yankees -Your Predictions:
    In Response to Re: Battle for 1st place Sox @ Yankees -Your Predictions : The Yankee bullpen has a 2.78 ERA in 165.1 innings this season while the Red Sox bullpen has a 4.26 ERA in 181.2 innings. http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=p&team=NYY&year=2011 http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=p&team=BOS&year=2011
    Posted by hill55

    My post is base 100% of the games I've watched (Sox vs. Yankees), where the Yankee bullpen has blown leads handed over by starters. Unless I'm wrong and the starters blew it at the very end of their starts?


    Make up your mind before you start spouting drivel.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    Whatever the Sox decide about Papelbon, the kangaroo court ( if the Sox have one ) should fine him for walking a banjo hitter to start the ninth with a three-run lead.  You have to make Gardner hit the ball, even if it means piping a pitch, especially with three balls.  
    You ask for trouble if you walk a speedy runner to open an inning. Papelbon got trouble. The fact that he ultimately got out of it doesn't excuse the mental mistake. I wonder if Papelbon threw strikes warming up on the mound. That's what a  reliever is supposed to do.
    A veteran catcher might even go to the mound after the third ball and say sternly,
    "Concentrate. Throw a strike."
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    I'm just glad Salty was catching, insteak of Tek. Tek is a disaster behind the plate. He can't block the ball, he has a paper arm, and although he has nothing to do with it, he is the kiss of death for pitching results. His last 8 starts have resulted in 44 Earned runs against the pitcher. Salty took a couple of months, would have been nice to have him start in AAA, but he has improved enough to play marginal defense and platework. I would expect to see very little Tek the rest of the year, but they may be wishful thinking. If the Red Sox resign Tek for another year, Theo should be attacked by a bunch of fans in gorilla suits.

    Papelbon's worth comes from having 2 top end arms in the pen in Paps and Bard. His replacement would not be Bard, it would be whoever takes Papelbon's place on the pen active roster. Who wrote this lame thread?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]I'm just glad Salty was catching, insteak of Tek. Tek is a disaster behind the plate. He can't block the ball, he has a paper arm, and although he has nothing to do with it, he is the kiss of death for pitching results. His last 8 starts have resulted in 44 Earned runs against the pitcher. Salty took a couple of months, would have been nice to have him start in AAA, but he has improved enough to play marginal defense and platework. I would expect to see very little Tek the rest of the year, but they may be wishful thinking. If the Red Sox resign Tek for another year, Theo should be attacked by a bunch of fans in gorilla suits. Papelbon's worth comes from having 2 top end arms in the pen in Paps and Bard. His replacement would not be Bard, it would be whoever takes Papelbon's place on the pen active roster. Who wrote this lame thread?
    Posted by betterredthandead[/QUOTE]
    Mr. Literal is on a roll as usual. Idiot.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    Last night was vintage Papelbon--imperfect, but effective.  A guy who thrives in closing situations.  Last night it was basically fastballs, but good fastballs all over the strike zone, including a strikeout of ARod to end the game.  Papelbon is the quintessential closer, and those guys are hard to find.  He reached 200 saves faster than anyone in MLB history because closing defines what he is and wants to be.  He is a huge Mariano Rivera fan for that reason. 

    If Pap keeps this up, the Sox are nuts not to keep him--and Bard.  Last time I checked, the Sox have no starters who regularly go 8 innings. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jpBsSoxFan. Show jpBsSoxFan's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    The question is how much will the Papelbon camp really demand. Will there be a hometown discount to stay in Boston?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    I believe Papelbon has been quoted saying he wants Mo like numbers right?
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    Last night Papelbon got out of the inning. I suppose that's one definition of "effective." But his performance was ragged and risky.  He never should have had to face ARod, who has gone deep on him.  
    He has given up earned runs in 5 or his last 7 appearances.  Though some people dismiss ERA for a reliever, his is still too high.  
    At this point the fact that he reached 200 saves at the youngest age is not strictly relevant.  His is pitching for a contract now.  He is not likely either to give the Sox a hometown discount or to get a contract like Mo's. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from betterredthandead. Show betterredthandead's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    I agree, expitch. As shaky as he can be, at times, he's improved over last year and the pickings are slim out there in the GM dumpsters. I think he's in a spot where he's not going to realize the contract base he was hoping for because of his own recent performance curve and the terrrible economy black cloud that is stuck over the United States. This translates to valid Red Sox interest in bringing him back on a two year contract, in my opinion, and a market that may make him worth bringing back. We'll see.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement

    In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Papelbon's worth comes from his replacement : Mr. Literal is on a roll as usual. Idiot.
    Posted by StatsFromLouie[/QUOTE]

    While that is a bit over the top, it isn't far from the truth either.  The market is going to be flooded with closers.  If the Sox don't like Bard or Jenks or Aceves for the role, they can pick someone up who has closing experience, who would end up being his replacement in both role and roster spot.
     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share