Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    hmm..we get the yanks late season averages but not papis??? is this what passes for honesty on this site?  you can take Papi... i will take tex or cano or grandy or pedroia or agon or ells arod? youk? if healthy (and didnt have to play the field like big sloppy?) stop this insanity that Papi in 2012 is a great bargain at 14 mil for a dh...stupid...
    Posted by georom4



    Do you always do this when you're proven wrong? Change the argument?

    Not a single person on this thread said Ortiz was a "great bergain".

    Sorry the rest of us aren't as upset about having a damned good hitter in the lineup this year as you are.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    In Response to Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox : 309-----29-----96----84= 15 MIL   worth every penny
    Posted by donrd4


    FOUR  BS -doesnt that mean a bargain?   you do understand the meanings of words, right?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox : FOUR  BS -doesnt that mean a bargain?   you do understand the meanings of words, right?
    Posted by georom4



    Worth the money isn'a a bargain. Make sure you know the difference the next time you buy a car.

    You're wrong, Georom. Get over it.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    lol OK Four BS...next time read all the posts before making an azz out of yourself
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    After looking at all those numbers I think the Red Sox got a great deal on only paying Ortiz $14million...of course I know our boy Geo doesn't use stats to form his opinions. The stats don't matter only what he believes
    Posted by thepeskypole6


    FOUR BS apparently didnt read this one either...
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    He better make sure he proves early that he is worth every cent. His contract is not guarunteed money and madden is not about to baby sit like Tito did.
    Posted by jackbu


    Madden?  Did we hire John Madden now?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In response to "Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox":
    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox : Madden?  Did we hire John Madden now? Posted by Hfxsoxnut
    Sweet, NESN will have him using a telestrator to diagram plays from the dugout.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    ...and yelling "BAM!"
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    because they fit what the team needed!

    Obviously Wastefield and Varitek did not fit what the team needed!!!!!

    Softlaw did not call for Wastefield to retire in 2007. Softlaw called for Wastefield to retire at the end of 2009 when he embarrassed the team over the 2nd half.

    And Ortiz, despite 2008 and 2009 poor starts and injuries, was still one of the top tier MLB hitters. And Tim Wastefield has been one of the bottom tier MLB pitchers for years. The whining about Ortiz being overpaid are pathetic! Wastefield needed to be kicked to the curb years ago! Ortiz is the first class citizen that bigoted Boston likes to claim Wastefield is!
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    $14 million is not a good investment in Ortiz and linking people who disagree with you to being "bigoted" is entirely uncalled for.  Too bad.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    He better make sure he proves early that he is worth every cent. His contract is not guarunteed money and madden is not about to baby sit like Tito did.
    Posted by jackbu


    His contract is guaranteed.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    Yes, it is guaranteed. If it had gone to arb, then it would not have been.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    because they fit what the team needed! Obviously Wastefield and Varitek did not fit what the team needed!!!!! Softlaw did not call for Wastefield to retire in 2007. Softlaw called for Wastefield to retire at the end of 2009 when he embarrassed the team over the 2nd half. And Ortiz, despite 2008 and 2009 poor starts and injuries, was still one of the top tier MLB hitters. And Tim Wastefield has been one of the bottom tier MLB pitchers for years. The whining about Ortiz being overpaid are pathetic! Wastefield needed to be kicked to the curb years ago! Ortiz is the first class citizen that bigoted Boston likes to claim Wastefield is!
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    Again, it is a fact that Wakefield has been a poor pitcher the past two years, but that's it. He was an ABOVE AVERAGE pitcher before seven consecutive seasons before that...you make it sound like he was a bum for 4+ years. Get it right.

    We all know softlaw is a biased fool, thanks for citing some of his idiotic history. How could Wakefield "embarrass the team over the second half" when he was hurt almost the entire time (and only had terrible second half numbers because of his last two starts of the year, when he clearly wasn't 100%). Are injuries embarrasing?

    Ortiz is an excellent citizen. But you don't think Wakefield is? Really?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    Excellent citizens don't have giant beer guts that produce herniated discs during millions of dollar contracts. Excellent citizens don't beg for contracts and take advantage of former good will, long after they are washed up and need to put ego and individual record chasing aside.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox : i am not the one who stated that PAPI IS ONE OF THE 8 BEST HITTERS IN MLB...those stats are a joke...as someone else posted, Papis numbers are good but 25-30 players in mlb are in that same area....i watched just about everygame last yr, there is no way Papi was clutch in big moments, nor did he even play hard it seemed...he was lazy on the bases, and complained a lot about aceves not starting, his rbis, and his lack of a contract...i know those realities dont seem to matter to the bootlickers, but i promise you that this is what matters in baseball, not baseball reference.com....but if you are going to at least compare players, try to use the same yardstick...not just a sample....i dont have to look that up to know the answer...Papi is a pampered, overpriced, one dimensional veteran...just like that other guy with the beer gut on the mound today...
    Posted by georom4


    I agree with you that someone calling Ortiz a top-8 hitter was overblown, but you take it far too much in the other direction. For the record, don't twist my words about there being 30-40 hitters who can hit 28 hrs/95 rbis as meaning Ortiz is roughly as good as those hitters. Many 28/95 candidates have poor BAs and poor OBPs...one reason Ortiz is still clearly in the 10-25 range among the best hitters in baseball is because he has power while still getting on base...it's quite hard to get that combo.

    Here are some hard and fast facts for you. Let's take a minimum of 27 HRs, 85 RBIs, and a .370 OBP (a very reasonable projection for Ortiz this year as of now). How many players have met or exceeded those numbers the past three years?

    2011: 12 players
    2010: 13 players
    2009: 17 players

    Given that Ortiz isn't likely to greatly exceed those thresholds, it's fairly clear he is NOT a top 8 hitter overall, but it's also clear that he is a top 10-20 hitter. That means that on most teams, he would be their best hitter, and is essentially irreplaceable, especially on a short-term contract basis.

    Stop citing "clutch" as part of this discussion. Provide actual tangible evidence, or drop your anecdotes.

    Stop saying Ortiz is a jerk who "complained a lot about...his rbis" (plural?)  because you watched ONE video of Ortiz seemingly complaining about one RBI that just as likely was one big joke and you have no flipping idea whether it really was or not. I'm sure there are dozens of snapshots of your day that make you look like a jerk...doesn't mean you are one.

    And stop referencing "bootlickers"...some people take a question, analyze the evidence at hand, and produce a result, without bias. The question here was about how good or not Ortiz is. NEARLY ALL THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE PROVIDED HERE has sided with Ortiz being good...that's not biased bootlicking, that's knowledge triumphing over biased idiocy.

    And relentlessly criticizing a player in contradiction of evidence, as you've done "geo", makes you an Ortiz-hating bootlicker. So you're actually the biggest bootlicker here. Stop throwing rocks when you live in a glass house!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    Right on, redsoxu571. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    Excellent citizens don't have giant beer guts that produce herniaded discs during millions of dollar contracts. Excellent citizens don't beg for contracts and take advantage of former good will, long after they are washed up and need to put ego and individual record chasing aside.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    Cite your evidence that Wakefield begged for his contract. Or don't mention it again.

    Wakefield's last contract with the Sox came immediately after a season when he posted a BETTER THAN LEAGUE AVERAGE ERA+. He was aging and had injury issues, so he certainly wasn't going to be paid as a league average pitcher, but in what way did he not merit a contract for only $5m guaranteed over two years?

    What is wrong with you people? Is it fun living in a world where you create a opinion and stick with it no matter how clearly your points are disproven?
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox : FOUR  BS -doesnt that mean a bargain?   you do understand the meanings of words, right?
    Posted by georom4


    G- This is baseball.  Land of guaranteed contracts and no cap.  I feel bad for you if you are seriously talking about bargains, as if they exist, when discusssing any good player that has reached free agency.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    What is wrong with you people? Is it fun living in a world where you create a opinion and stick with it no matter how clearly your points are disproven?
    Posted by redsoxu571


    I believe that hank is a litigator.  And as I know from watching countless legal dramas LOL, litigators don't actually care about the truth, they care about succeeding as litigators.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    +. He was aging and had injury issues, so he certainly wasn't going to be paid as a league average pitcher,

    He was old and old men who live on bar stools were in better physical condition!

    He begged for a contract he knew the Red Sox did want to give him by having the arrogance to claim "I think fans deserve the opportunity to see me (chase another individual record)". He begged by not calling off his pitiful agent, who was whining about if the Red Sox didn't offer him his blankie then he would win 15 games elsewhere.

    Wastefield is an albatross than only a bartender wants to see.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxu571. Show redsoxu571's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    + . He was old and old men who live on bar stools were in better physical condition! He begged for a contract he knew the Red Sox did want to give him by having the arrogance to claim "I think fans deserve the opportunity to see me (chase another individual record)". He begged by not calling off his pitiful agent, who was whining about if the Red Sox didn't offer him his blankie then he would win 15 games elsewhere. Wastefield is an albatross than only a bartender wants to see.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    If you think Wakefield is woefully out of shape, you haven't paid attention to the historical standard of knuckleballers (and pitchers in general). Irrelevant and not really all that true regardless...

    His agent sounds fairly subdued to me (for a baseball agent)...are you saying he shouldn't be doing his job by arguing for his client?

    I don't see begging in anything above. I see someone arguing his own merits. Show me some actual begging, please (I ask because I doubt you'll be able to find it).

    If you're arguing that Wakefield should have the grace to walk off into the sunset NOW, given that he's pretty clearly out of gas, I'm totally with you. But every time you say he "begged for a contract" two years ago or that "the Red Sox didn't want to give him the contract they gave him" (which ignores every way that Theo Epstein ran his team), you look like a fool.


    By the way, your quotes are from this past season, not from 2009. Here's more for context: "I’ve definitely made up my mind that I definitely want to come back next year...I have another goal in front of me that I’d like to accomplish, and that’s the all-time record for the Red Sox in wins. I’m only seven away. I think the fans deserve an opportunity to watch me chase that record. We’ll see what happens...[getting 200 wins] meant the world to me. It’s a memory I’ll cherish for the rest of my life.”

    My my, how arrogant. He has A goal (so it's not his only goal...I'm sure his top goal is to help the team win) that he'd LIKE to accomplish (but is likely not a top priority). He's also a competitive athlete who, as with all athletes, has some degree of personal pride, and he sees a milestone that seems so close...10 years ago 7 wins would have been nothing, and he wants to think he's not so "done" that he can't get another 7 wins. Just because he is probably wrong about him doesn't make him arrogant or a begger, and he might not even be wrong about that.
     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox

    In Response to Re: Papi's Last Year with the Red Sox:
    Excellent citizens don't have giant beer guts that produce herniaded discs during millions of dollar contracts. Excellent citizens don't beg for contracts and take advantage of former good will, long after they are washed up and need to put ego and individual record chasing aside.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr


    Cite your evidence that Wakefield begged for his contract. Or don't mention it again.

    Wakefield's last contract with the Sox came immediately after a season when he posted a BETTER THAN LEAGUE AVERAGE ERA+. He was aging and had injury issues, so he certainly wasn't going to be paid as a league average pitcher, but in what way did he not merit a contract for only $5m guaranteed over two years?

    What is wrong with you people? Is it fun living in a world where you create a opinion and stick with it no matter how clearly your points are disproven?

    He went from making $4M in 2009, an allstar season, to $5M/2. I don't think he begged for that deal. Also, before his back injury in mid 2009, Wake had just racked up his best 50 consecutive start streak of his career.

    Then, he busted his you know what to be able to be ready to start day 1 after back surgery! He was bounced to the pen and back to starter 10 times in 2010, and did not do very well.

    mr hanky has been all over Wake since the Boone HR. He's struggling hard to finally get one right. It's all he has to cling to.
     
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