Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]...but I'm not sure how far you can go in the AL East with Kyle Farnsworth as your closer and Longoria, Zobrist,and Joyce as your offense.... Last year, nobody expected great things from Soriano either. As for the offense, don't let the numbers deceive you. Last year the Ray won the division with these numbers: #1 hitter hit .249 #2 hitter hit .265 #3 & 4 had OPS below .832 #5 hit .221 with an OPS of .717 #6 hit .221 with an OPS of .691 If these were our guys, we'd have said there was no hope. The Rays find other ways to win. It's not a FLUKE!
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Are you that stupid? The guy was coming off of a fantastic year where he ran with the co-closer job. Everybody knew he was an elite pitcher when healthy, and he did that in 2009 and 2010. Not so much this year. Don't compare Soriano to Farnsworth, idiot.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    Are you that stupid? The guy was coming off of a fantastic year where he ran with the co-closer job. Everybody knew he was an elite pitcher when healthy, and he did that in 2009 and 2010. Not so much this year. Don't compare Soriano to Farnsworth, idiot.

    Sounds like you are upset that the Yanks got a rollercoaster releiver on the down swing.

    Yes, Soriano had a very good 2009 season despite the 1-6 record and more than his share of blown saves, but it was his first season with extended time as a closer.

    Have you seen what releivers make these days? What just average closers get? Why did no other team but TB sign him to only $7.25M? Could it be that most GMs doubted whether he could duplicate his pretty good 2009 season, let alone improve on it?

    Are that "stupid" to say you expected a 1.73 ERA and 45 saves in 2010?
    Nobody expected that. I didn't say I expected bad things. His WHIP was about 0.300 better than his career number before 2010. His ERA wasmore than 1.20 less than his career ERA after 2009.

    I'm not saying Farnsworth is or ever will be as good as Soriano is/was, but TB has a knack for picking up pen guys who go on to have career or near years with them. Maybe it's the lower pressure atmosphere in TB, who knows, but I can see that this year's TB pen is doing great after 107 IP. Greater than expected. Same as last year's greater than expected.

    Updated pen numbers for 2011: 3.12 ERA and a 1.209 WHIP (.619 opponent's OPS). Not great, but better than their starter numbers, and better than expected.

    2010 pen numbers: 3.33 and 1.174 (.672 opponents OPS)

    My guess is these numbers will come down, but they will end up being much better than people expected to see.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mlgvt48. Show mlgvt48's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    The Rays are 1 pitching injury away from last place.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    They are one offensive acquisition from being a sure bet to the play-offs.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    TBR scaring me more each day.  The AL East is going to be a worse scrum than it was last year, methinks. 

    And Johnny Damon - on his third team within the division - can still light up a scoreboard.  Must be an oil portrait of him in the attic that looks like heck.

    And while nobody was looking, TOR tied with NYY and BOS for third.  Bautista hitting .429 BA, .571 OBP, 1.095 SLG at home in the Rogers Centre. (I still want to call it the Sky Dome, but I digress.)

    Something else to worry about in the AL East.  I don't think TOR has the pitching to go the distance, but they are certainly good enough to make life miserable on occasion.

    "Mercy!" as the late Ned Martin (RIP) used to say.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    My biggest doubt about this team comes from the fact that they've played the Sox a grand total of twice, and play game 2 against the NYY tonight. That's 33 games left against their top competition (and yet, 8 games against MIN in the books, bery fortunate timing for them), if I had to bet. I'd say the Rays will lose both of those season series, and will end up somewhere close to .500. Which, admittedly, is better than most expected out of them.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]They are one offensive acquisition from being a sure bet to the play-offs.  
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    So you think one more offensice player, assuming something decent, makes them obvious playoff entries over the Sox AND Yankees. I don't agree, they'll need more than that.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    I disagree entirely.... you are forgetting they have the experience and have a great starting pitching staff.... there offense is good too.  

    I am talking Reyes, or Fielder or someone of course.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from billsrul. Show billsrul's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]Are you that stupid? The guy was coming off of a fantastic year where he ran with the co-closer job. Everybody knew he was an elite pitcher when healthy, and he did that in 2009 and 2010. Not so much this year. Don't compare Soriano to Farnsworth, idiot. Sounds like you are upset that the Yanks got a rollercoaster releiver on the down swing. Yes, Soriano had a very good 2009 season despite the 1-6 record and more than his share of blown saves, but it was his first season with extended time as a closer. Have you seen what releivers make these days? What just average closers get? Why did no other team but TB sign him to only $7.25M? Could it be that most GMs doubted whether he could duplicate his pretty good 2009 season, let alone improve on it? Are that "stupid" to say you expected a 1.73 ERA and 45 saves in 2010? Nobody expected that. I didn't say I expected bad things. His WHIP was about 0.300 better than his career number before 2010. His ERA wasmore than 1.20 less than his career ERA after 2009. I'm not saying Farnsworth is or ever will be as good as Soriano is/was, but TB has a knack for picking up pen guys who go on to have career or near years with them. Maybe it's the lower pressure atmosphere in TB, who knows, but I can see that this year's TB pen is doing great after 107 IP. Greater than expected. Same as last year's greater than expected. Updated pen numbers for 2011: 3.12 ERA and a 1.209 WHIP (.619 opponent's OPS). Not great, but better than their starter numbers, and better than expected. 2010 pen numbers: 3.33 and 1.174 (.672 opponents OPS) My guess is these numbers will come down, but they will end up being much better than people expected to see.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I just wanted to correct you saying taht Soriano wasn't a free agent when the Rays "signed him".  He actually had accepted arbitration from the Braves already as a type A.  The Rays actually traded Jesse Chavez (who ended up being a nobody) for him.  Your point still remains though that these are the types of moves the Rays make.  They get a bunch of great prospects, and then try to add to that by getting a couple guys for "fair" one-year prices.  By doing this, they avoid hamstringing themselves with overbloated contracts.  Especially at non-critical positions like reliever, there's very little reason to go with 3-year deals or more, when sufficient options are usually available on low-risk, one-year deals...
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from billsrul. Show billsrul's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]My biggest doubt about this team comes from the fact that they've played the Sox a grand total of twice, and play game 2 against the NYY tonight. That's 33 games left against their top competition (and yet, 8 games against MIN in the books, bery fortunate timing for them), if I had to bet. I'd say the Rays will lose both of those season series, and will end up somewhere close to .500. Which, admittedly, is better than most expected out of them.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    This is true, there's a heck of a lot of season left to be played between these two and plenty of drama to play out.  But the Rays certainly still do look tough, you have to remember they played 35 games or so without Longoria, who's their star player.  I think they win 90-92 games, pretty easily.  That may or may not be good enough to make playoffs.  I also agree with Burrito that if they traded for a big-time offensive player (fielder would be a perfect fit, since Rays are basically running naked at 1B), they would be nearly set for playoffs assuming no more major injuries.  If anything the Rays still need to worry about offensive depth, they don't have much if one of their big bats (Joyce, Damon, or Longoria) goes down again.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    They lost Crawford and Garza in the offseason, lost Longoria early on to an injury, and started out something like 2-10.  Then they came roaring back. 

    I agree with the OP. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from majorleague. Show majorleague's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    The Rays are more than 1 starting pitching injury away from last place. They have some newer faces who are floating amidst the under the radar that newer places get. Despite that, they do not have the offensive weapons or pen to sustain being a contender for a 162 game season. Their start was terrible, and that will sink them well before the end of the season. They do not have the kind of team than can survive the terrible start they had. Their next slump will push them down closer to .500, where they will flounder back and forth until folding the tent before they are eliminated by all but the math in the last few weeks of the season. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from StatsFromLouie. Show StatsFromLouie's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]The Rays are more than 1 starting pitching injury away from last place. They have some newer faces who are floating amidst the under the radar that newer places get. Despite that, they do not have the offensive weapons or pen to sustain being a contender for a 162 game season. Their start was terrible, and that will sink them well before the end of the season. They do not have the kind of team than can survive the terrible start they had. Their next slump will push them down closer to .500, where they will flounder back and forth until folding the tent before they are eliminated by all but the math in the last few weeks of the season. 
    Posted by majorleague[/QUOTE]
    That first sentence is very supportive of the Rays, yet the rest is very negative. Please elaborate.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    Ummm, they have already overcome their poor start.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    I just wanted to correct you saying taht Soriano wasn't a free agent when the Rays "signed him".  He actually had accepted arbitration from the Braves already as a type A.  The Rays actually traded Jesse Chavez (who ended up being a nobody) for him. 

    I totally forgot that trade. My bad. I stand corrected.

    Your point still remains though that these are the types of moves the Rays make.  They get a bunch of great prospects, and then try to add to that by getting a couple guys for "fair" one-year prices.  By doing this, they avoid hamstringing themselves with overbloated contracts.  Especially at non-critical positions like reliever, there's very little reason to go with 3-year deals or more, when sufficient options are usually available on low-risk, one-year deals...

    They also have a knack for getting rid of players and prospects that decline or don't pan out. My guess is anyone could have given more than Jesse Chavez for Soriano. To me, that tells me that GMs did not expect great things from him in 2010, but apparently Louie is the king.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    It is probably unconventional to project them for 90 wins but I'm pretty confident they will be above that. They have a solid team. Anything could happen.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    I'm starting to think I underestimated them as well, boom.

    They should still have Manny's left over money to get a helpful piece in July.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from billsrul. Show billsrul's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]I just wanted to correct you saying taht Soriano wasn't a free agent when the Rays "signed him".  He actually had accepted arbitration from the Braves already as a type A.  The Rays actually traded Jesse Chavez (who ended up being a nobody) for him.  I totally forgot that trade. My bad. I stand corrected. Your point still remains though that these are the types of moves the Rays make.  They get a bunch of great prospects, and then try to add to that by getting a couple guys for "fair" one-year prices.  By doing this, they avoid hamstringing themselves with overbloated contracts.  Especially at non-critical positions like reliever, there's very little reason to go with 3-year deals or more, when sufficient options are usually available on low-risk, one-year deals... They also have a knack for getting rid of players and prospects that decline or don't pan out. My guess is anyone could have given more than Jesse Chavez for Soriano. To me, that tells me that GMs did not expect great things from him in 2010, but apparently Louie is the king.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I'm also getting the feeling that not only do the Rays have a knack for understanding the players they have, but also the economics of the market.  The last 2-3 years were really "owners' markets", meaning that it was in the best interest of small market teams to buy players (which the Rays did a bit of with guys like Soriano, Garza, not through free agency but via trade. they also extended a few players in that timespan).  This past offseason was 100% a players' market.  Therefore, the Rays barely invested.  Smart way to play it really.  THe longoria deal also helps them a ridiculous amount.....
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    Yes it does.

    Fuld is in a funk. How long do you think they go until they bring up Jennings or find someone else?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    Jennings isn't lighting it up so far. I think they give Fuld a little more time. The way he's playing he probably will get hurt soon anyway. Last I looked Jennings was around .290. They do lack some power but the pitching may well carry them and some of their guys are over producing.

    Your guess is as good as mine Moon!

    EDIT: Probably better!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from billsrul. Show billsrul's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]Yes it does. Fuld is in a funk. How long do you think they go until they bring up Jennings or find someone else?
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Zobrist get moved back to the OF for a few months.  Then Brignac or Rodriguez would take over 2B.  Also Damon could play a little LF as the Rays have a whole bunch of guys who could DH...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away : I wouldn't be surprised to see Zobrist get moved back to the OF for a few months.  Then Brignac or Rodriguez would take over 2B.  Also Damon could play a little LF as the Rays have a whole bunch of guys who could DH...
    Posted by billsrul[/QUOTE]

    Solid points. I like Rodriguez. Brignac and Rodriguez could be a good combo if Fuld or Jennings are not ready. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Zobrist get moved back to the OF for a few months.  Then Brignac or Rodriguez would take over 2B.  Also Damon could play a little LF as the Rays have a whole bunch of guys who could DH...

    Yes, this very well could happen.

    It's amazing what Kotchman has done. If he keeps it up, he will win comeback player of the year hands down.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    In Response to Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away:
    [QUOTE]I wouldn't be surprised to see Zobrist get moved back to the OF for a few months.  Then Brignac or Rodriguez would take over 2B.  Also Damon could play a little LF as the Rays have a whole bunch of guys who could DH... Yes, this very well could happen. It's amazing what Kotchman has done. If he keeps it up, he will win comeback player of the year hands down.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    He is really solid defensively also. He has been a great pickup so far. He's probably been an improvement over Pena overall.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Part II: Tampa Bay Not Going Away

    Kotch is one of the best fielding 1st baggers in baseball. He has remarkable range and instincts. I was sorry to see him go, but he was too young to be a back-up.

    Glad he's doing well. 
     

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