Passed ball, not a wild pitch

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    Yesterday the official scorer did not hesitate to call the run-scoring misplay a wild pitch, but I have looked at it several times and do not think it was that hard to catch.  This is a minor point because that game is history and the team overall played very well at Yankee Stadium.  I also think that game was winnable after the 9th inning dinger by Middlebrooks.

    Interesting that the Sox went with basically their four best starters (even though Doubront needs a rest and will get one) and the best one was Lester, not Lackey or Peavy.  In an interview Nieves (sp) the pitching coach says he has worked on getting Lester to throw more with his hand and a little less with his arm, shoulder, legs, etc.  Interesting.  Two of the three Yankee runs were the result of cheap hits although the 2-run rbi single by Cano was hard hit and not cheap.   I mention this because moonslav does sometimes make a big deal out of CERA, and yesterday was the only game Saltalamacchia caught and the one with far and away the best pitching by the Sox. 

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from lasitter. Show lasitter's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    Just saw the replay. Workman certainly missed the target, but Salty should have caught it.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThefourBs. Show ThefourBs's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Yesterday the official scorer did not hesitate to call the run-scoring misplay a wild pitch, but I have looked at it several times and do not think it was that hard to catch.  This is a minor point because that game is history and the team overall played very well at Yankee Stadium.  I also think that game was winnable after the 9th inning dinger by Middlebrooks.

    Interesting that the Sox went with basically their four best starters (even though Doubront needs a rest and will get one) and the best one was Lester, not Lackey or Peavy.  In an interview Nieves (sp) the pitching coach says he has worked on getting Lester to throw more with his hand and a little less with his arm, shoulder, legs, etc.  Interesting.  Two of the three Yankee runs were the result of cheap hits although the 2-run rbi single by Cano was hard hit and not cheap.   I mention this because moonslav does sometimes make a big deal out of CERA, and yesterday was the only game Saltalamacchia caught and the one with far and away the best pitching by the Sox. 




    I don't believe a wild pitch has to be uncatchable, to be considered a wild pitch.

    Missing his spot by as much as Workman did, I think it's reasonable to call that last pitch a wild one.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    Just saw the replay. Workman certainly missed the target, but Salty should have caught it.

    Agree ........ I think Salty's sore back had a little to do with that .........  With today off, salty should have missed yesterdays game, as  "Carlton Lavarnway Fisk" has been playing well enough to get another day .........  J F missed the boat on that one !!

     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to lasitter's comment:

    Just saw the replay. Workman certainly missed the target, but Salty should have caught it.

    i thought Salty was setting up for down and away, he shifted to the corner and Workman threw up and in, was also a bad break(for Salty) the carom went left causing him to circle away from the plate


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to ThefourBs' comment:

     



    I don't believe a wild pitch has to be uncatchable, to be considered a wild pitch.

     

    Missing his spot by as much as Workman did, I think it's reasonable to call that last pitch a wild one.




    I agree 4B's

    but I guess it's reasonable to go either way

     

    4 a quick peek

    skip to the 1.58 minute mark

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    Salt said he lost the ball in the shadows. Stupid way to keep from getting a four game sweep at NY, but oh well. I would have been happy with a split. I'll take it.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

    Yesterday the official scorer did not hesitate to call the run-scoring misplay a wild pitch, but I have looked at it several times and do not think it was that hard to catch.  This is a minor point because that game is history and the team overall played very well at Yankee Stadium.  I also think that game was winnable after the 9th inning dinger by Middlebrooks.

    Interesting that the Sox went with basically their four best starters (even though Doubront needs a rest and will get one) and the best one was Lester, not Lackey or Peavy.  In an interview Nieves (sp) the pitching coach says he has worked on getting Lester to throw more with his hand and a little less with his arm, shoulder, legs, etc.  Interesting.  Two of the three Yankee runs were the result of cheap hits although the 2-run rbi single by Cano was hard hit and not cheap.   I mention this because moonslav does sometimes make a big deal out of CERA, and yesterday was the only game Saltalamacchia caught and the one with far and away the best pitching by the Sox. 

     




    Max, it appeared he was looking for a pitch low in the zone. Thats where Salty's glove was heading when he had to try and stop momentum heading down and try to extend his arm as high as it could go as fast as he could. They crossed signals, but Workman still missed his mark by a mile. That was ALL on Workman

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    Salt said he lost the ball in the shadows. Stupid way to keep from getting a four game sweep at NY, but oh well. I would have been happy with a split. I'll take it.

     




    That absolutely makes sense to me--and makes the PB very forgivable.    I would have been ecstatic with a split, so 3 of 4 is manna from heaven. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    Salt said he lost the ball in the shadows. Stupid way to keep from getting a four game sweep at NY, but oh well. I would have been happy with a split. I'll take it.

     

    it's funny right as the ball hit off of Salty's mitt, Ken Singleton said the shadows could affect the catchers also...


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    Salt said he lost the ball in the shadows. Stupid way to keep from getting a four game sweep at NY, but oh well. I would have been happy with a split. I'll take it.

     

     




    That absolutely makes sense to me--and makes the PB very forgivable.    I would have been ecstatic with a split, so 3 of 4 is manna from heaven. 

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Good point about the shadows too. Salty's eyes were looking for a low pitch and the ball went sailing through the shadows. Even though it was tough to lose like that, we took 3 of 4 in enemy territory. I'll take it.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

     

     

    Salt said he lost the ball in the shadows. Stupid way to keep from getting a four game sweep at NY, but oh well. I would have been happy with a split. I'll take it.

     

     

     

     




    That absolutely makes sense to me--and makes the PB very forgivable.    I would have been ecstatic with a split, so 3 of 4 is manna from heaven. 

     

     

     

     




    Good point about the shadows too. Salty's eyes were looking for a low pitch and the ball went sailing through the shadows. Even though it was tough to lose like that, we took 3 of 4 in enemy territory. I'll take it.

     

     





    SP, even Sori's lean back was late, like he didn't pick up the pitch right away

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to jete02fan's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

     

     

    In response to TheExaminer's comment:

     

     

     

    Salt said he lost the ball in the shadows. Stupid way to keep from getting a four game sweep at NY, but oh well. I would have been happy with a split. I'll take it.

     

     

     

     




    That absolutely makes sense to me--and makes the PB very forgivable.    I would have been ecstatic with a split, so 3 of 4 is manna from heaven. 

     

     

     

     




    Good point about the shadows too. Salty's eyes were looking for a low pitch and the ball went sailing through the shadows. Even though it was tough to lose like that, we took 3 of 4 in enemy territory. I'll take it.

     

     





    SP, even Sori's lean back was late, like he didn't pick up the pitch right away




    They were just starting to talk about the shadows being a possible issue on NESN and TBS. Makes sense.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    The ball should have been caught.

    That being said, that is not the definition of a passed ball. Many WPs could have been caught and might have by another catcher.

    Bad scoring. It will hurt Workman's ERA, but other than that, no big difference.

    Sox4ever

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The ball should have been caught.

    That being said, that is not the definition of a passed ball. Many WPs could have been caught and might have by another catcher.

    Bad scoring. It will hurt Workman's ERA, but other than that, no big difference.

    Sox4ever

     



     

    YES announcers believed shadows may have factored in.

    Also, 2nd guessers could speculate on whether Ross would have had it and/or gunned down Ichiro. In that situation, even though it's a tie, I would want my best C in the game.

    IMO, PB

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The ball should have been caught.

    That being said, that is not the definition of a passed ball. Many WPs could have been caught and might have by another catcher.

    Bad scoring. It will hurt Workman's ERA, but other than that, no big difference.

    Sox4ever

     



     

    YES announcers believed shadows may have factored in.

    Also, 2nd guessers could speculate on whether Ross would have had it and/or gunned down Ichiro. In that situation, even though it's a tie, I would want my best C in the game.

    IMO, PB

     




    Also they got their signs crossed up. Saltys glove was going low and outside. He had just shifted his body that way when the ball went sailing to the backstop. Add in the shadows and theres no way you can say that ball should have been caught.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The ball should have been caught.

    That being said, that is not the definition of a passed ball. Many WPs could have been caught and might have by another catcher.

    Bad scoring. It will hurt Workman's ERA, but other than that, no big difference.

    Sox4ever

     



     

    YES announcers believed shadows may have factored in.

    Also, 2nd guessers could speculate on whether Ross would have had it and/or gunned down Ichiro. In that situation, even though it's a tie, I would want my best C in the game.

    IMO, PB

     

     




    Also they got their signs crossed up. Saltys glove was going low and outside. He had just shifted his body that way when the ball went sailing to the backstop. Add in the shadows and theres no way you can say that ball shouldhave been caught.

     




    Perhaps, and your point makes my thinking on the matter murkier, but here's guessing Ross would of had it.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    Good thing it wasn't Lava back there who let the ball bounce off his mitt for the game-losing run! (the pitch was eminently catchable).  The litany of diatribes condemning his supposed execrable defensive skills would have commenced in full force when, truth is, Lava is certainly no worse than Salty as a catcher.  Some posters just have this great inexplicable love for all things Salty, while the interested and impartial observer is at a complete loss to understand why.  I mean, here's a catcher who is average or worse defensively, with a less than average arm, who produces offensively, though almost never when the game is on the line.  As someone said on chatzy the other day, maybe it's the hair.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    I wouldn't have hesitated to call it a passed ball.

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    I love it when people say "_______  would have had it"   As if they know 100% for sure. silly.

    Lavarnway is far worse defensively than Salty is. Sorry if some of you cant see it. The kid doesnt even block balls in the dirt. He tries to backhand and olay them instead of sliding his body in front of them, like salty does. Thats basic stuff there and he cant even do that. Im not saying Salty is a GG defender, but to put the blame on him for that is way off if you ask me.

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    So the pitch that was supposed to be low and away and was over the hitters head and some here think it was NOT a wild pitch. If that was not a wild pitch then what is? A ball in the dirt that the catcher should block based upon the theory expressed by some here becomes a passed ball if the catcher does not stop it.

    Folks a pitched ball that is that high and inside is a WILD PITCH.

    If you have ever caught and I have and you are expecting a ball in one spot and it goes in the totally oposite direction it is not the catcher's fault for not catching it. The guy that threw it totally screwed up not the catcher and I do not care how many times you watch a play

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to JimfromFlorida's comment:

    So the pitch that was supposed to be low and away and was over the hitters head and some here think it was NOT a wild pitch. If that was not a wild pitch then what is? A ball in the dirt that the catcher should block based upon the theory expressed by some here becomes a passed ball if the catcher does not stop it.

    Folks a pitched ball that is that high and inside is a WILD PITCH.

    If you have ever caught and I have and you are expecting a ball in one spot and it goes in the totally oposite direction it is not the catcher's fault for not catching it. The guy that threw it totally screwed up not the catcher and I do not care how many times you watch a play

    LOVE my  Red Sox, Bs, Cs, Pats and enjoy the ride every year. 



    jim,

    You need to look at the video.  The pitch was over the middle of the plate and absolutely not over anyone's head.  It was at eye level for Soriano, but of course he was in a hitter's crouch.  It was also at eye level for the umpire, and he too was in a crouch.  Plus he was set up over the inside corner and didn't even have to move because the ball was centered over the plate.   Saltalamacchia was not standing up, but still got a glove on it.  It is a good bet he called for a fastball, which he got.  It is a reasonable assumption he was looking for a ball on the outside of the plate, but not low and away because it is likely both of them wanted a first pitch strike. 

    This is not intended as an attack on Saltalamacchia, because, as the OP makes clear, I thought he caught a good game and certainly better than Ross or Lavarnway.  I also believe his explanation that he lost the pitch in the shadows, which is very forgivable but is also a passed ball. 

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    It's all relative.

    It's a conspiracy to keep Salty's CERA high to show up all thos eposter who "love all things that are Salty"...

    like chips and peanuts, and...

    Sox4ever

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch


    Sometimes those calls -- including errors -- do seem arbitrary. I know people have said they sometimes favor the home team, but everything should be up for review in those instances. Later decisions would not change games. If it was the right call, then it would stand as the right call. But it really shouldn't have a different name than an error.

     
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