Passed ball, not a wild pitch

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:


    Sometimes those calls -- including errors -- due seem arbitrary. I know people have said they sometimes favor the home team, but everything should be up for review in those instances. Later decisions would not change games. If it was the right call, then it would stand as the right call. But it really shouldn't have a different name than an error.



    kimsayswhat

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:

     


    Sometimes those calls -- including errors -- due seem arbitrary. I know people have said they sometimes favor the home team, but everything should be up for review in those instances. Later decisions would not change games. If it was the right call, then it would stand as the right call. But it really shouldn't have a different name than an error.

     



    kimsayswhat

     




    Passed ball calls seem arbitrary.

    Error calls seem arbitrary - but sometimes favor the home team.

    Whether a call is an error or a basehit doesn't change the game, so they could still review the call for the players later for their records.

    A passed ball should be called an error for the catcher -- not a passed ball.

    Having a problem understanding that? Maybe it's the ads you say you enjoy on the board in your way.

     

    Btw, should a Yankee fan be part of the discussion as to whether or not Sox fans appreciate ads all over the board? I would appreciate ads all over Yankee boards, but I don't go there to give them my thumbs up like you did here.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

     

    Passed ball calls seem arbitrary.

    Error calls seem arbitrary - but sometimes favor the home team.

    Whether a call is an error or a basehit doesn't change the game, so they could still review the call for the players later for their records.

    changes happen all the time

    don't know if it's true

    but I even heard a crazy story about a player barging into a mgr PC

    to request such a thing

    guess he couldn't use the phone cause someone beat the heck out of it

     

    A passed ball should be called an error for the catcher -- not a passed ball.

    Having a problem understanding that?

    yeah kinda

    why should it

    why even care

     

     

     

    Maybe it's the ads you say you enjoy on the board in your way.

     why the need to make stuff up

    never said I  enjoyed them

    was just

    U know...............keeping it real

    by saying it's wrong to expect no adds

    why would some biz want 2 own a board without adds to sell

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

     

    Passed ball calls seem arbitrary.

    Error calls seem arbitrary - but sometimes favor the home team.

    Whether a call is an error or a basehit doesn't change the game, so they could still review the call for the players later for their records.

    changes happen all the time

    don't know if it's true

    but I even heard a crazy story about a player barging into a mgr PC

    to request such a thing

    guess he couldn't use the phone cause someone beat the heck out of it

     

    A passed ball should be called an error for the catcher -- not a passed ball.

    Having a problem understanding that?

    yeah kinda

    why should it

    why even care

     

     

     

    Maybe it's the ads you say you enjoy on the board in your way.

     why the need to make stuff up

    never said I  enjoyed them

    was just

    U know...............keeping it real

    by saying it's wrong to expect no adds

    why would some biz want 2 own a board without adds to sell

     

     

     



    For anyone that says I fight with Zac on the board, you should look at the posts I deal with late at night from a Yankee fan monitoring the board all night.

     

    I made my post which has nothing to do with you or the Yankees. I'm not going to argue with you over your insulting comments all over this thread. Go amuse yourself somewhere else. Again, my post on the Mariano thread hasn't bothered you because it's true, and I made that hours ago -- a thread you are all over btw. I wonder what the difference is between that thread and this thread?

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    I say To-MAY-to and you say To-MAT-o, who cares...

    ...the pitch missed it's spot and the catcher didn't catch it, nufced...wild pitch or passed ball it makes no difference in the end result.

    For the record, Saltalamacchia has been very good this season behind the plate and for someone to second guess that Ross would have had it is just ludicrous.

     

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

     

    I say To-MAY-to and you say To-MAT-o, who cares...

    ...the pitch missed it's spot and the catcher didn't catch it, nufced...wild pitch or passed ball it makes no difference in the end result.

    For the record, Saltalamacchia has been very good this season behind the plate and for someone to second guess that Ross would have had it is just ludicrous.

     

     

     



    Disagree; this year, Ross's DWAR per game (0.5 in 31 games) is more than 8.6x higher than Salty's (0.2 in 107 games), who is largely viewed as a below average Defensive C, with a below average arm (19.4% CS vs 34.5% for Ross). Also, Salty's CERA is 3.88, while Ross is 3.10. Ditto similarly for the career #s . In addition, I said 2nd guessers could speculate on whether he WOULD have had it, not WOULD. Because Johnny Bench could miss a play that a high school kid could make. So who's ludicrous?

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

    I say To-MAY-to and you say To-MAT-o, who cares...

    ...the pitch missed it's spot and the catcher didn't catch it, nufced...wild pitch or passed ball it makes no difference in the end result.

    For the record, Saltalamacchia has been very good this season behind the plate and for someone to second guess that Ross would have had it is just ludicrous.



    I think Ross would have had it 99 times out of 100. I also think  Salty would  have had it 99 times out of 100. This just happened to be his one. He mentioned  something about the shadows and not seeing the ball well, which is likely why he didn't handle it. Just a fluke thing.

     

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

     

    I say To-MAY-to and you say To-MAT-o, who cares...

    ...the pitch missed it's spot and the catcher didn't catch it, nufced...wild pitch or passed ball it makes no difference in the end result.

    For the record, Saltalamacchia has been very good this season behind the plate and for someone to second guess that Ross would have had it is just ludicrous.

     

     

     



    Disagree; this year, Ross's DWAR per game (0.5 in 31 games) is more than 8.6x higher than Salty's (0.2 in 107 games), who is largely viewed as a below average Defensive C, with a below average arm (19.4% CS vs 34.5% for Ross). Also, Salty's CERA is 3.88, while Ross is 3.10. Ditto similarly for the career #s . In addition, I said 2nd guessers could speculate on whether he WOULD have had it, not WOULD. Because Johnny Bench could miss a play that a high school kid could make. So who's ludicrous?

     



    Again, look at CERA with each individual pitcher that both have significant sample sizes with and the CERA disparity all but vanishes.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

     

     

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

     

    I say To-MAY-to and you say To-MAT-o, who cares...

    ...the pitch missed it's spot and the catcher didn't catch it, nufced...wild pitch or passed ball it makes no difference in the end result.

    For the record, Saltalamacchia has been very good this season behind the plate and for someone to second guess that Ross would have had it is just ludicrous.

     

     

     



    Disagree; this year, Ross's DWAR per game (0.5 in 31 games) is more than 8.6x higher than Salty's (0.2 in 107 games), who is largely viewed as a below average Defensive C, with a below average arm (19.4% CS vs 34.5% for Ross). Also, Salty's CERA is 3.88, while Ross is 3.10. Ditto similarly for the career #s . In addition, I said 2nd guessers could speculate on whether he WOULD have had it, not WOULD. Because Johnny Bench could miss a play that a high school kid could make. So who's ludicrous?

     

     

     



    Again, look at CERA with each individual pitcher that both have significant sample sizes with and the CERA disparity all but vanishes.

     

     

     



    The CERA factoid was a trivial and impertinent component of my argument. I'm not even sure why you bothered. Now that I think of it, Ditto me.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:

    Yesterday the official scorer did not hesitate to call the run-scoring misplay a wild pitch, but I have looked at it several times and do not think it was that hard to catch.  This is a minor point because that game is history and the team overall played very well at Yankee Stadium.  I also think that game was winnable after the 9th inning dinger by Middlebrooks.

    Interesting that the Sox went with basically their four best starters (even though Doubront needs a rest and will get one) and the best one was Lester, not Lackey or Peavy.  In an interview Nieves (sp) the pitching coach says he has worked on getting Lester to throw more with his hand and a little less with his arm, shoulder, legs, etc.  Interesting.  Two of the three Yankee runs were the result of cheap hits although the 2-run rbi single by Cano was hard hit and not cheap.   I mention this because moonslav does sometimes make a big deal out of CERA, and yesterday was the only game Saltalamacchia caught and the one with far and away the best pitching by the Sox. 




    Kind of like the 1986 World Series when Bob Stanley was given a wild pitch when Gedman clearly should have caught it. Gedman didn't have any issues with the sun/shade. I will never understand that call against Stanley.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    The CERA factoid was a trivial and impertinent component of my argument. I'm not even sure why you bothered. Now that I think of it, Ditto me.

     It may not be pertinent to you, but it is to me, and that's why I bothered.

    Sox4ever

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

     

    The CERA factoid was a trivial and impertinent component of my argument. I'm not even sure why you bothered. Now that I think of it, Ditto me.

     It may not be pertinent to you, but it is to me, and that's why I bothered.

    Sox4ever

     



    I consider CERA important in general; it just doesn't seem that relevant to the WP/PB issue on Sunday. I didn't fully realize it was window dressing in that context until after U responded. My mistake for bringing up CERA at all. Otherwise, the rest of my original comment appears to me to be spot on.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    Sounds to me that DWAR and CERA, which I virtually have no understanding of, and are fairly new recognized statistics, have anything to do with whether your team resides in the standings...

    ...the fact that Salt's stats in these areas may not be the best, he has still contributed enough for the 2013 Red Sox be in 1st place into September. This includes handling of pitchers which I'm not sure what stat covers this effectiveness.

    All in all, I like Salt catching for the Sox more than anyone else these have put behind the plate...Ross may be better defensively but he is a career part time player and Sox fans would be complaining about him if he was the teams everyday catcher.

    A good indicator on whether Salt is satisfying team requirements will be if the FO gives him a new contract next year or begins looking elsewhere for a full time catcher.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    Wow.  Amazing this thread has legs.  I simply disagreed with the scorer's call, but tried to make it clear I was not condemning Salty, who otherwise caught and called a good game, I thought.  So I am delighted others have leaped to his defense. 

    New subject.  Calling checked swings by the 1B or 3B umpires.  It is rare when I might disagree with any of their calls because I think it's ridiculous to expect them to make any call at all.  Checked swings are semi-instantaneous and hard to call, so any call is fine with me, even when it goes against one of our guys.  Even the bat crossing the plane of the plate is not a good criterion, because some hitters can do that and not break their wrists. 

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to nhsteven's comment:

     

    In response to Soxdog67's comment:

     

    I say To-MAY-to and you say To-MAT-o, who cares...

    ...the pitch missed it's spot and the catcher didn't catch it, nufced...wild pitch or passed ball it makes no difference in the end result.

    For the record, Saltalamacchia has been very good this season behind the plate and for someone to second guess that Ross would have had it is just ludicrous.

     

     

     



    Disagree; this year, Ross's DWAR per game (0.5 in 31 games) is more than 8.6x higher than Salty's (0.2 in 107 games), who is largely viewed as a below average Defensive C, with a below average arm (19.4% CS vs 34.5% for Ross). Also, Salty's CERA is 3.88, while Ross is 3.10. Ditto similarly for the career #s . In addition, I said 2nd guessers could speculate on whether he WOULD have had it, not WOULD. Because Johnny Bench could miss a play that a high school kid could make. So who's ludicrous?

     

     



    Again, look at CERA with each individual pitcher that both have significant sample sizes with and the CERA disparity all but vanishes.

     



    Lester----Salty-57.0
    Dempster--Ross-42.0
    Buch------Ross-35.2
    Peavy-----Ross-12.2
    Uehara----Salty-12.2
    Tazawa----Salty-12.0
    Lackey----Ross-11.1
    Doubront--Salty-8.2
    Mortensen-Ross-6.2
    Webster---Ross-6.0
    Breslow---Ross-6.0
    Bailey----Ross-6.0
    Wilson----Ross-3.2
    Aceves----Salty-3.2
    Miller----Ross-3.1
    D L Torre-Ross-3.1
    Britton---Ross-3.0
    D L Rosa--Salty-2.1
    Hanrahan--Ross-2.0
    Workman---Ross-1.2
    Morales---Salty-1.1

     

    If you cherry pick 8 or 12 innings as the significant sample size, then the advantage disapears. If we look at the 6 main starters, Ross has a 4-2 advantage. If we look at 6 innings being "significant" instead of 8 or 12 innings, the advantage is 8-4. If over 15 innings, its 2-1. And with all pitchers, its 14-7. This is also the 3rd straight year where the number 1 backup has had an advantage that is pretty clear in CERA head to head with pitchers with Salty.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

    I love it when people say "_______  would have had it"   As if they know 100% for sure. silly.

    Lavarnway is far worse defensively than Salty is. Sorry if some of you cant see it. The kid doesnt even block balls in the dirt. He tries to backhand and olay them instead of sliding his body in front of them, like salty does. Thats basic stuff there and he cant even do that. Im not saying Salty is a GG defender, but to put the blame on him for that is way off if you ask me.

     




     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from jader. Show jader's posts

    Re: Passed ball, not a wild pitch


    Agree 100% Lavarnway is an awful dewfensive catcher plus he can't hit. Wasn't he behind the plate when the Yanks stole 6 bases, Thurs nite?

     
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