Pedbury

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    Pedbury

    If they continue to bat 1 and 2, both need to get on base a lot more or Boston's offense will sputter. If anything, Ellsbury has looked worse at the plate recently. He's late or not hitting the ball squarely or taking too many good pitches and swinging at too many bad ones. I demurred recently when Bean suggested waiting until Ellsbury has 100 AB's, not because Bean was being unreasonable but because Ellsbury already had enough time to do at least better than he was then doing and certainly better than he is now doing. This is an observation not a moral or personal judgment.
    Pedey  is way off his game at the plate. Injury or not, at this point he's having a down season. Pitchers regularly retire him with FB's up and away. Maybe it's the thumb. Maybe not.
    Rather than put it negatively, let's say that they are not helping the club at the plate. Without their help, Boston's offense is running on two ( maybe four ) cylinders when it needs at least all six. It could in fact be eight if everyone hit to his norms.
    That said, no jury in the country would convict them of homicide if they waylaid the home plate umpire after the game and killed him. Or did it right on the field.
    That umpire never did figure out where the plate was. One of worst jobs I've seen all season.

     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Pedbury:
    If they continue to bat 1 and 2, both need to get on base a lot more or Boston's offense will sputter. If anything, Ellsbury has looked worse at the plate recently. He's late or not hitting the ball squarely or taking too many good pitches and swinging at too many bad ones. I demurred recently when Bean suggested waiting until Ellsbury has 100 AB's, not because Bean was being unreasonable but because Ellsbury already had enough time to do at least better than he was then doing and certainly better than he is now doing. This is an observation not a moral or personal judgment. Pedey  is way off his game at the plate. Injury or not, at this point he's having a down season. Pitchers regularly retire him with FB's up and away. Maybe it's the thumb. Maybe not. Rather than put it negatively, let's say that they are not helping the club at the plate. Without their help, Boston's offense is running on two ( maybe four ) cylinders when it needs at least all six. It could in fact be eight if everyone hit to his norms. That said, no jury in the country would convict them of homicide if they waylaid the home plate umpire after the game and killed him. Or did it right on the field. That umpire never did figure out where the plate was. One of worst jobs I've seen all season.
    Posted by expitch

    You are pretty much right on target with this. Very hard to disagree with any of it.
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    Ellsbury often starts slow. If we win this year it will be because Ellsbury carries them on his back. This is ridiculous. He stays #1 in the lineup. This might be the dumbest post yet expitch.
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    How these two players perform for the remainder of this season has implications and consequences not only for them but also for the Sox and for other teams. 
    For example, if Boston is seriously considering a trade involving Ellsbury, his value would be lessened by a mediocre record. Another club could argue that 2011 was a fluke, or at least not a true indicator of Ellsbury's value, and thus be unwilling to surrender prime beef already in the majors or top-level prospects. 
    That argument would not work, of course, if Ellsbury gets hot and finishes strong.
    But if Ellsbury does not have a resurgence, it would probably be in his interest and in Boston's to keep him on the team at least for the first half of 2013, to hope for much improved performance, and then to make a decision at the trading deadline. At this point, resigning or extending Ellsbury may seem remote, but it cannot be entirely ruled out. 
    Right now, his slow "start" is complicating things for Boston's chances this year and for his own future, in Boston or elsewhere.
    Pedey's situation is mostly but not totally different. It will depend in part on how he and the Sox fare the rest of the way, and, in turn, how that outcome could affect what the FO decides to put on the field in 2013. Pedey is having a troubled and troublesome season in more ways than one, starting apparently in ST, including the injury, a decline in performance ( so far ), and reports of friction between him and BV. Without much more solid information, I hesitate to speculate on how much, if any, substance these reports should be credited. Let's just say for certain that Pedey would be a lot happier if Tito were still the manager. ( I almost said "in charge," but Tito himself said that he ceased being in charge at some point in 2011. ) Pedey's fate in Boston may be ( may be ) connected to BV's and even to Cherrington's if the higher-ups come to believe, for their own reasons, that one or more of this trio should be replaced. If that belief comes to pass, no guesses here on who goes and who stays. 
    Ellsbury has long been thought "touchable" as a result of treatment in Boston and the assumption that big contracts to Gonzalez and, especially, to CC have put Jacoby financially out of reach. 
    We'll see. This one is still very much ongoing. See above.
    Pedey is still considered "untouchable" by the vast majority of Sox fans, or so I assume. As Danny has pointed out, Pedey was given a pass while Gonzalez was being scalded, perhaps in large part because of the injury but at least in part because he's beloved. However, cracks have begun to show. He was taken to task on this board for his comments about Japan and "how things are done here." ( Some of us remarked that the way things were done resulted in an historic collapse -- and the absence of Pedey's favorite manager and cribbage pal. ) Whether true or not, he's being fingered as the snitch in the latest overblown drama. It's significant that people are openly suspecting him of behavior that they deplore. That's another crack, regardless of the facts. The upshot is that he's gradually becoming "touchable" in ways that would have been unthinkable as recently as last season. He's embroiled in stuff. 
    Maybe "touchable" only in the minds of some fans ( at least here ), but that's a far cry from the old virtually immaculate reputation. No one knows what the FO thinks at this point. It does not appear to lend any support to BV, at least on the record; but we are not privy to in-house discussions or to what could be a power struggle upstairs. 
    Should Boston try to move Pedey in the offseason ( the "unthinkable" ), his value, like Ellsbury's, could be reduced unless he turns it on from here on in.
    And, yes, it must be said, if he's regarded as a troublemaker or something of a cry-baby or someone who simply does not know his place, AND he has a mediocre season, other GM's may reasonably hesitate to part with high-value pieces in order to obtain him. MLB is a small fraternity -- and a gossip factory.
    Things get pinned on people, fairly or unfairly, and they tend to stick. 
    All that said, for now, c'mon Pedey and Ellsbury. This club needs you to get it going in a big way.
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    [QUOTE]Ellsbury often starts slow. If we win this year it will be because Ellsbury carries them on his back. This is ridiculous. He stays #1 in the lineup. This might be the dumbest post yet expitch.
    Posted by Boomerangsdotcom[/QUOTE
    You are a bona fide fool. You hang around the board, breathing heavily, your fevered brain geared up, as always, eager to take a shot at me. You get your ears pinned back time and again. Yet you come back for more. A smarter and wiser man than you would have thrown in the towel long ago ( as Harness once pointed out, and someone else who said you'd been wrong twice but seemed to be trying for a third time. )
    Now to some facts:
    I did not say he should be dropped in the lineup.
    I said that he would help the club in that spot if he were doing better now. I pointed out his obvious flaws NOW at the plate. Maybe you haven't noticed them, since your grasp of this game as played on the field would not fill a Lilliputian thimble. As in, we won't win unless Ellsbury carries the club on his back. He virtually did that in 2011. Unless I missed something, we didn't win.
    I did not discount the possibility that he would get it going. I didn't say or imply anything like "we're stuck with this bum for the rest of the season."
    See my last post below, where I speak explicitly of the possibility of an Ellsbury "resurgence."
    I said the offense would sputter as long as Ellsbury and Pedey in the 1 and 2 holes continue to struggle. That statement clearly implies that I want them to pick it up IN THOSE SPOTS.
    You honestly or willfully misunderstand what is being said, and, as Southpaw stingingly reprimanded you for, you put words in people's mouths.
    It is fitting that, just like a boomerang, when you toss something out, it comes back to nail you. You should remember what you say on your website to buyers of boomerangs: "The target is you."



     
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    Re: Pedbury

    Note that I said, "if they continue to bat 1 and 2," not that they SHOULD not continue to bat 1 and 2. BV makes that decision, not me. On the history of the case, they are the right guys to bat 1 and 2. That history has not yet been overthrown. Dented a lot at the moment, but not destroyed. Who knows what will follow?  
    Galehouse read my post exactly as intended. But he has no rabidly emotional agenda. 
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Pedbury:
    If they continue to bat 1 and 2, both need to get on base a lot more or Boston's offense will sputter. If anything, Ellsbury has looked worse at the plate recently. He's late or not hitting the ball squarely or taking too many good pitches and swinging at too many bad ones. I demurred recently when Bean suggested waiting until Ellsbury has 100 AB's, not because Bean was being unreasonable but because Ellsbury already had enough time to do at least better than he was then doing and certainly better than he is now doing. This is an observation not a moral or personal judgment. Pedey  is way off his game at the plate. Injury or not, at this point he's having a down season. Pitchers regularly retire him with FB's up and away. Maybe it's the thumb. Maybe not. Rather than put it negatively, let's say that they are not helping the club at the plate. Without their help, Boston's offense is running on two ( maybe four ) cylinders when it needs at least all six. It could in fact be eight if everyone hit to his norms. That said, no jury in the country would convict them of homicide if they waylaid the home plate umpire after the game and killed him. Or did it right on the field. That umpire never did figure out where the plate was. One of worst jobs I've seen all season.
    Posted by expitch


    In July;

    Ellsbury.............69 AB (17 GP) .304/.351/.406/.757 (1 HR & 3 RBI)

    Crawford...........45 AB (13 GP).244/.306/.356/.662 (1 Hr & 4 RBI)

    Pedrioa.............58 AB (15 GP) .276/.295/483/.778 (4 HR & 8 RBI)

    Gonzalez...........94 AB (24 GP) .372/.385/.543/928 (4 HR & 19 RBI)

    Middlebrooks......68 AB (18 GP) .294/.314/.471/.785 (3 HR & 10 RBI)

    Saltalamaccia.....66 AB (20 GP) .182/.260/.424/.685 (5 HR & 8 RBI)

    Ross.................83 AB (25 GP) .217/.298/.410/.708 (4 HR & 11 RBI)

    Avilies...............72 AB (22 GP) .194/.234/.292/.525 (1 HR & 8 RBI)

    Note Worthy;
    Ciriaco...............69 AB (20 GP) .348/.357/.449/.806 (8 RBI)
    Ortiz.................38 AB (12 GP) .395/.547/.579/.1.126 (2 HR & 5 RBI)

    July
    Team Stats.......
    878 AB (26 GP) .257/.311/.402/.713 (27 HR / 99 RBI)
    Total runs scored.......106
    Average Runs Game...4.07

    Runs Allowed.............125
    Runs allowed Game....4.80

    Run Differential.......... -19

    Team Record...............12-14
    Team ERA...................4.53

    Beckett (6.08 ERA) & Lester (9.36 ERA) combined to go 1-5

    End of the day, this team has more issue than Ellsbury and Crawford....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    In Response to Pedbury : In July; Ellsbury.............69 AB (17 GP) .304/.351/.406/.757 (1 HR & 3 RBI) Crawford...........45 AB (13 GP).244/.306/.356/.662 (1 Hr & 4 RBI) Pedrioa.............58 AB (15 GP) .276/.295/483/.778 (4 HR & 8 RBI) Gonzalez...........94 AB (24 GP) .372/.385/.543/928 (4 HR & 19 RBI) Middlebrooks......68 AB (18 GP) .294/.314/.471/.785 (3 HR & 10 RBI) Saltalamaccia.....66 AB (20 GP) .182/.260/.424/.685 (5 HR & 8 RBI) Ross.................83 AB (25 GP) .217/.298/.410/.708 (4 HR & 11 RBI) Avilies...............72 AB (22 GP) .194/.234/.292/.525 (1 HR & 8 RBI) Note Worthy; Ciriaco...............69 AB (20 GP) .348/.357/.449/.806 (8 RBI) Ortiz.................38 AB (12 GP) .395/.547/.579/.1.126 (2 HR & 5 RBI) July Team Stats....... 878 AB (26 GP) .257/.311/.402/.713 (27 HR / 99 RBI) Total runs scored....... 106 Average Runs Game... 4.07 Runs Allowed............. 125 Runs allowed Game.... 4.80 Run Differential .......... -19 Team Record ...............12-14 Team ERA ...................4.53 Beckett (6.08 ERA) & Lester (9.36 ERA)  combined to go 1-5 End of the day, this team has more issue than Ellsbury and Crawford....
    Posted by Beantowne
    This team has many issues. That is why no one player can carry it to victory on his back. But the offense needs people at the top to get on base. The fact that it has more issues does not negate the fact that it has issues with individual players.
    Ellsbury now has 108 AB's, your "gold standard," and his BA is dropping. Crawford is showing signs of life but has not been a big help overall. It was said repeatedly, including by the FO, that the return of Crawford and Ellsbury would give the club a boost. They were singled out as bound to make a positive difference. It's reasonable and normal to notice whether this anticipation is working out. So far it hasn't. It may yet. Ellsbury may find his stroke and bust out. But he hasn't and seems to be slipping backwards. Let's hope that Crawford's recent hits are a sign of what it to come. 

     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    . If we win this year it will be because Ellsbury carries them on his back. The 2011 Red Sox were big woosers. If the Red Sox win, this year, it will be because Ortiz returns to his 2012 season form and the Red Sox get a top RH OF hitter to put between Ortiz and Agon.
    Posted by TrotterNixon


    who? and you cant say upton because boston is on his no trade list..
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Pedbury:
    If they continue to bat 1 and 2, both need to get on base a lot more or Boston's offense will sputter. If anything, Ellsbury has looked worse at the plate recently. He's late or not hitting the ball squarely or taking too many good pitches and swinging at too many bad ones. I demurred recently when Bean suggested waiting until Ellsbury has 100 AB's, not because Bean was being unreasonable but because Ellsbury already had enough time to do at least better than he was then doing and certainly better than he is now doing. This is an observation not a moral or personal judgment. Pedey  is way off his game at the plate. Injury or not, at this point he's having a down season. Pitchers regularly retire him with FB's up and away. Maybe it's the thumb. Maybe not. Rather than put it negatively, let's say that they are not helping the club at the plate. Without their help, Boston's offense is running on two ( maybe four ) cylinders when it needs at least all six. It could in fact be eight if everyone hit to his norms. That said, no jury in the country would convict them of homicide if they waylaid the home plate umpire after the game and killed him. Or did it right on the field. That umpire never did figure out where the plate was. One of worst jobs I've seen all season.
    Posted by expitch


    Agree with everything here ex...The 1 and 2 spots HAVE to be the table setters for your 3-6...If Gonzo keeps batting with 2 out and bases empty to start games/innings its going to be tough...
    I think Ells can get it going, Pedey not so much...Hes just having a bad year and it started with his mouth when he stepped out of line with his Manager and followed with his injuries and no hitting...
    Were into August now and i honestly would drop pedey a few notches, but Im sure that wouldnt happen...Good post...
     
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    Re: Pedbury



    I coined the nickname last year "BoomerFANGSdotcom" ... I will let you use it expitch
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    lol. Gee wiz this is how far we have all gown down hill with this bunch, we have even turned on the very best.
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    In Response to Re: Pedbury : This team has many issues. That is why no one player can carry it to victory on his back. But the offense needs people at the top to get on base. The fact that it has more issues does not negate the fact that it has issues with individual players. Ellsbury now has 108 AB's, your "gold standard," and his BA is dropping. Crawford is showing signs of life but has not been a big help overall. It was said repeatedly, including by the FO, that the return of Crawford and Ellsbury would give the club a boost. They were singled out as bound to make a positive difference. It's reasonable and normal to notice whether this anticipation is working out. So far it hasn't. It may yet. Ellsbury may find his stroke and bust out. But he hasn't and seems to be slipping backwards. Let's hope that Crawford's recent hits are a sign of what it to come. 
    Posted by expitch


    Since coming off the DL, Ellsbury has had 82 at bats and has struggled for the better part of the last two weeks part of the process, and why they use the term batting "average" remember the guy spent the better part of three months not facing live pitching...it may well take him another month to reach is average, meaning that he's likely to get hot then hopefully he'll ffind some consistency just in time to hit the free agent market...

    End of the day, I get where you're coming from. I agree that we'd benefit greatly fromboth he and Crawford, getting it going. It wouldn't hurt if Pedrioa, Ross & Saltalamaccia squared up a few balls either...Look at the numbers above in the month of July, by amd large our entire lineup struggled with only Gonzalez hitting at or above career norms and Middlebrooks "holding his own". I for one have already resigned my self to the fact that we're pretty much done and it's gatting late early....

    More troubling to me is the season long malaise of Lester and Beckett...
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    2012 -  a perfect storm of injuries, underperforming, crybabies, and dumb leadership...

    its pretty much over i believe
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Pedbury

    ex, spot on about No. 1 and 2. Also, lets take a look at the No. 2 spot in general this season. It's NOT been pretty a lot this year with any of the hitters. The team is spinning its wheels.
    To me this is the whole season in a nutshell for the Sox--In no part of this season can the Sox get more than 2 guys hitting at once, often just 1. It's always just 2 guys at most, and those 2 guys change from week to week, sometimes day to day. They can't get 4 going at the same time. It's getting to be old. Ellsbury and Pedroia are slipping when Craw and Gonzo are hitting. Ortiz was hitting and Agon was not. When Salty was on a binge, that's when the rest of the team did nothing. Ross hits and no one helps. Look at the games--Middlebrooks was on a roll, he slides an no one to pick him up either. When Ciriaco was hitting, there was again a feeling like no one else was doing anything. He won 2 games almost by himself. When is this team going to get 4 or 5 guys going at once? Answer, I have no idea.
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    Maybe it's time to evaluate Pedroia.
    It goes beyond statistics.
    He seems to feel he runs the team, judging by remarks he's made, like, "That's no how we do it in Boston."
    Seems he's a large part of the gang trying to stir the ship.
    He's part of the negative culture in the Sox clubhouse.
    He needs to go, along with Beckett, Lackey and Papi.
    Hiring a new manager isn't going to doany good, while the "gang" is still holding court.
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    I coined the nickname last year "Boomer FANGS dotcom" ... I will let you use it expitch
    Posted by EnchiladaT

    Expitch throws Ellsbury under the bus, after just a few AB this year even though he hit .304 in July apparently, and was 2nd in the MVP vote last year and THAT'S THE PROBLEM according to expitch. Mr. knowitall baseball professor who never cites anything other than his opinion. 

    Go back to your hole in Cambodia Burrito. You are a suck up one day and then get a snipe in here and there only to say it was a joke afterward. Tell us something either:

    1) true
    2) interesting
     
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    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    In Response to Pedbury : In July; Ellsbury.............69 AB (17 GP) .304/.351/.406/.757 (1 HR & 3 RBI) Crawford...........45 AB (13 GP).244/.306/.356/.662 (1 Hr & 4 RBI) Pedrioa.............58 AB (15 GP) .276/.295/483/.778 (4 HR & 8 RBI) Gonzalez...........94 AB (24 GP) .372/.385/.543/928 (4 HR & 19 RBI) Middlebrooks......68 AB (18 GP) .294/.314/.471/.785 (3 HR & 10 RBI) Saltalamaccia.....66 AB (20 GP) .182/.260/.424/.685 (5 HR & 8 RBI) Ross.................83 AB (25 GP) .217/.298/.410/.708 (4 HR & 11 RBI) Avilies...............72 AB (22 GP) .194/.234/.292/.525 (1 HR & 8 RBI) Note Worthy; Ciriaco...............69 AB (20 GP) .348/.357/.449/.806 (8 RBI) Ortiz.................38 AB (12 GP) .395/.547/.579/.1.126 (2 HR & 5 RBI) July Team Stats....... 878 AB (26 GP) .257/.311/.402/.713 (27 HR / 99 RBI) Total runs scored....... 106 Average Runs Game... 4.07 Runs Allowed............. 125 Runs allowed Game.... 4.80 Run Differential .......... -19 Team Record ...............12-14 Team ERA ...................4.53 Beckett (6.08 ERA) & Lester (9.36 ERA)  combined to go 1-5 End of the day, this team has more issue than Ellsbury and Crawford....
    Posted by Beantowne

    But if we listen to expitch, opposing pitchers are scared to death of pitching to Salty and his .182 average. Sometimes it is like whatever the problem is, it is exactly what expitch says it isn't.

     
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    Re: Pedbury

    While I agree with Bean that our main issue remains inconsistent starting pitching, this team has gone from being all about high OBP and taking a lot of pitches to being about swinging for the fences.

             Pit/PA  OBP  OBP-1  OBP-2 (slot)
    2012  3.92    .325  .314    .315  (.314)
    2011  3.95    .349  .366    .371  (.369)
    2010  4.02    .339  .318    .344  (.331)
    2009  3.93    .352  .332    .378  (.355)
    2008  3.86    .358  .322    .377  (.349)
    2007  3.94    .362  .329    .382  (.356)
    2006  3.92    .351  .348    .332  (.341)
    2005  3.86    .357  .363    .352  (.358)
    2004  3.93    .360  .370    .346  (.355)

    As you can see our team OB is the worst in at least the last 9 years.
    Our leadoff and 2 slot OBP are pathetically low.
    Our pitches taken per PA Podshas fallen the last 2 years.

    Taking a look at our top OBP players this year, you will see that most are back-ups, in AAA, on the DL, or with other teams right now:

    Papi   .414
    Pods  .409
    Nava  .373
    Shop  .348
    AGon  .346
    Ciriac  .338
    Ross    .337
    Gomez .323
    Ellsb   .322
    Midds  .319
    Pedey .319
    Youk   .315
    Punto .315
    DMac  .309
    Sween .303
    Craw   .301
    Salty   .288
    Byrd   .286
     



     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Pedbury

    come on boom, you have to concede that in that situation with Nathan, Nathan didn't want to make a poor pitch to him. 20 HR guys whether they are Rob Deer or Wade Boggs (well, 1 season the rabbit ball year) are guys you still have to be careful with. Salty drew a walk. It's not about being scared, it's about being careful to not throw a pitch that could be hit 350 feet.
     
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  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from expitch. Show expitch's posts

    Re: Pedbury

    In Response to Re: Pedbury:
    In Response to Re: Pedbury : Since coming off the DL, Ellsbury has had 82 at bats and has struggled for the better part of the last two weeks part of the process, and why they use the term batting "average" remember the guy spent the better part of three months not facing live pitching...it may well take him another month to reach is average, meaning that he's likely to get hot then hopefully he'll ffind some consistency just in time to hit the free agent market... End of the day, I get where you're coming from. I agree that we'd benefit greatly fromboth he and Crawford, getting it going. It wouldn't hurt if Pedrioa, Ross & Saltalamaccia squared up a few balls either...Look at the numbers above in the month of July, by amd large our entire lineup struggled with only Gonzalez hitting at or above career norms and Middlebrooks "holding his own". I for one have already resigned my self to the fact that we're pretty much done and it's gatting late early.... More troubling to me is the season long malaise of Lester and Beckett...
    Posted by Beantowne
    More  troubling to me too, Bean. 
    I cited what is clearly a problem at the moment at the top of the order. I didn't say it was permament. Ellsbury's struggles the last two weeks are a major part of that problem. I made an observation, gave no one a death sentence. Only the board hysteriac would call my remarks "throwing Ellsbury under the bus."
    I've used the terms "resurgence" as a possibility for Ellsbury and "may bust out." In fact, I think that a fairly good bet. But for now we're waiting. Only Boom went bananas over my remarks. 

     
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