Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah Bill James has no connections to any organization.

    And that disqualifies him from voting for Teixeira in what way?

    [/QUOTE]


    Typical James pick fluff Tex so you can diss Cano.

    Folks here trying to sell this award as more reputable as the GG is a joke, my first problem.

    As if these picks are beyond favoritism.

    I don't know what James watches but from where I sit Robinson Cano is the best defensive second baseman in all of baseball hands down, he certainly has the best arm I've ever seen.

    That being said If I had a team and had to pick a 2nd baseman I'd pick Pedroia.

    Knowing he doesn't have the skills at second Cano has.Not that he is bad.

    But Pedroia is more focused has more desire and intangibles imo.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The play across his body is as good as it gets.  But on all other scores, pedey is better.  Cano has never gooten high votes by anyone in the Fielding Bible, and James probably has a higher opinion of Cano than the rest.  And the UZR/150, while very inconistent, still has Cano as a -3.8, while Pedey is +9.9 for their careers.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Dont get me wrong, some deserve it, but the GG award is mostly a popularity contest based on prior GG's...

    [/QUOTE]

    The GG awards were proven to be a joke when Derek Jeter won his last. Don't get me wrong, although I'm a Sox fan it would have been nice to see Jeter in a Sox uniform but he won his last award I believe last year. Much older, doesn't cover much ground yet wins a GG. 

    Hetch

    [/QUOTE]

    They were a joke long before that.  The lost any relevancy when Palmeiro won the GG when he played 28 games at 1B in '99.  Given that that means that Raffy only played 1 of every 6 games at 1B, there is a really good chance that some of the writers never even saw Raffy play that year.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For those who hate fielding metrics, this is a much better indicator of fielding talent that the GG award voting.

    [/QUOTE]


    Dont get me wrong, some deserve it, but the GG award is mostly a popularity contest based on prior GG's...

    [/QUOTE]

    The GG glove award is a total joke. 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Folks here trying to sell this award as more reputable as the GG is a joke, my first problem.

    Why is that TWM?  Because Bill James votes for these awards?

    The GG voters base their decisions largely on fielding %, not a very good way to measure defensive ability. 

    I don't know what James watches but from where I sit Robinson Cano is the best defensive second baseman in all of baseball hands down, he certainly has the best arm I've ever seen.

    A case could be made for Cano to get the 2nd place finish over Pedroia, although an equally strong case could be made in support of Pedroia for a 2nd place finish.  I would have no problem with either one of them being the runner up.

    However, neither one of them comes close to Darwin Barney in terms of defense this season.  Unless you have watched all the 2nd basemen play every game (or at least the vast majority of games) this season,  you really have no basis for saying that Cano is the best defensive 2nd baseman in baseball.  

    [/QUOTE]

     

    Shocking news.


    James has an agenda just like everyone else.

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Yeah Bill James has no connections to any organization.

    And that disqualifies him from voting for Teixeira in what way?

    [/QUOTE]


    Typical James pick fluff Tex so you can diss Cano.

    Folks here trying to sell this award as more reputable as the GG is a joke, my first problem.

    As if these picks are beyond favoritism.

    I don't know what James watches but from where I sit Robinson Cano is the best defensive second baseman in all of baseball hands down, he certainly has the best arm I've ever seen.

    That being said If I had a team and had to pick a 2nd baseman I'd pick Pedroia.

    Knowing he doesn't have the skills at second Cano has.Not that he is bad.

    But Pedroia is more focused has more desire and intangibles imo.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    The play across his body is as good as it gets.  But on all other scores, pedey is better.  Cano has never gooten high votes by anyone in the Fielding Bible, and James probably has a higher opinion of Cano than the rest.  And the UZR/150, while very inconistent, still has Cano as a -3.8, while Pedey is +9.9 for their careers.

    [/QUOTE]


    Baloney. Cano has better range making plays going into the outfield then making throws same is true of balls out of play down the first baseline.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to southpaw777's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    For those who hate fielding metrics, this is a much better indicator of fielding talent that the GG award voting.

    [/QUOTE]


    Dont get me wrong, some deserve it, but the GG award is mostly a popularity contest based on prior GG's...

    [/QUOTE]

    The GG glove award is a total joke. 

    [/QUOTE]

    And why the two players being compared have shared the award in recent years.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    Dont get me wrong, some deserve it, but the GG award is mostly a popularity contest based on prior GG's...

    [/QUOTE]

    The GG awards were proven to be a joke when Derek Jeter won his last. Don't get me wrong, although I'm a Sox fan it would have been nice to see Jeter in a Sox uniform but he won his last award I believe last year. Much older, doesn't cover much ground yet wins a GG. 

    Hetch

    [/QUOTE]


    There are few annual awards in baseball without controversy.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    im not sure Pedey is better than Cano at 2b but i dont watch a lot of Yankee games - but i doubt he is much better defensivily...pedroia's defense is the only thing i enjoyed about him this year with his constant whining and calling out of people

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    There are few annual awards in baseball without controversy.

    Not like that.  You don't have to see pitchers and hitters to pick MVP.  Miggy will MVP.  You don't need to have seen him for that.  Almost all MVPs and CY's, even when controversial, will result in the 2nd best candidate perhaps being the best.

    OCab, in 2005, had perhaps the greatest single fielding season as a SS in history.  His UZR/150 came in at 24.1, and Jeter came in at -13.4.  GG to Jeter.

    In 2006, Gonzo was 1st in UZR/150 at 14.6, Jeter came in at -7.7.  Fielding Bible had Gonzo 4th overall in MLB, and jeter 15th.  GG to Jeter.

    OTOH, I've seen Gardner in LF live a whole lot.  He is virtually flawless.  Great speed, and I have never seen him take even a single bad route.  

    In 2011, the F.B. gave him a 99, and Tony Gwynn was 2nd with a 74.  In 2010, the F.B. gave Gardner a 96, with Crawford in 2nd with an 86.  They too consider Gardner near flawless.

    In 2011, his UZR/150 was 31.0 and Fuld was second with 18.8.  In 2010, Gardner's UZR/150 was 45.7, with Crawford coming in at 20.8.  I'll admit that UZR is not as precise as the F.B.  But the UZR pretty much says Gardner is flawless as well.

    How many times has Gardner woon the GG?  -0-.  And why?  Because a lot of the writers don't even know position he plays.

    If that doesn't disqualify the GG from any meaning whatsoever, nothing does.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are few annual awards in baseball without controversy.

    Not like that.  You don't have to see pitchers and hitters to pick MVP.  Miggy will MVP.  You don't need to have seen him for that.  Almost all MVPs and CY's, even when controversial, will result in the 2nd best candidate perhaps being the best.

    OCab, in 2005, had perhaps the greatest single fielding season as a SS in history.  His UZR/150 came in at 24.1, and Jeter came in at -13.4.  GG to Jeter.

    In 2006, Gonzo was 1st in UZR/150 at 14.6, Jeter came in at -7.7.  Fielding Bible had Gonzo 4th overall in MLB, and jeter 15th.  GG to Jeter.

    OTOH, I've seen Gardner in LF live a whole lot.  He is virtually flawless.  Great speed, and I have never seen him take even a single bad route.  

    In 2011, the F.B. gave him a 99, and Tony Gwynn was 2nd with a 74.  In 2010, the F.B. gave Gardner a 96, with Crawford in 2nd with an 86.  They too consider Gardner near flawless.

    In 2011, his UZR/150 was 31.0 and Fuld was second with 18.8.  In 2010, Gardner's UZR/150 was 45.7, with Crawford coming in at 20.8.  I'll admit that UZR is not as precise as the F.B.  But the UZR pretty much says Gardner is flawless as well.

    How many times has Gardner woon the GG?  -0-.  And why?  Because a lot of the writers don't even know position he plays.

    If that doesn't disqualify the GG from any meaning whatsoever, nothing does.

    [/QUOTE]


    The biggest thing Gardner has had to overcome to familiarize himself with the national baseball public and acceptance as a great defensive player are his history of injuries which have denied him a consistent basis of work.

    I agree he is a good option when he is out there but like Ellsbury like Nick Johnson his career has been marred by injury.

    I disagree with a few others here on whether my opinion might be flawed because I did not watch every game of both Pedroia and Cano last season.

    Over the course of both of their careers I have seen enough of each player to provide to what I consider to be a well informed opinion.

    My rule of thumb has always been if the Yankees are not on TV then the Red Sox are, when they are both on I use pip, but as I pointed out in an earlier post because the Sox were out of the race early this season I did not watch their games as much as I have in years past.

    I sincerely doubt any of you will change my opinion on this one. Have a great day, get the chain saws ready.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    Furthermore this imo is just another one of those endless arguments over great players.

    Ted v Joe D., Carlton v Thurman, the short lived Derek v Nomar.

    As a boy it was who was better Willie, Duke or Mickey? All three now in the Hall.

    Cano and Pedroia are both great players but I sure wish Cano would display the ever burning fire I see in Pedroia.

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    I disagree with a few others here on whether my opinion might be flawed because I did not watch every game of both Pedroia and Cano last season.

    Over the course of both of their careers I have seen enough of each player to provide to what I consider to be a well informed opinion.

    I'm not questioning your ability to give a well informed opinion TWM.  As I've told you in the past, I have no doubt that you know a good ballplayer when you see one, and that you know good defense when you see.   I'm only questioning your claim that Cano is the best defensive 2B in baseball, when you haven't seen the all the other 2B play regularly.

    I'm also questioning your opinion that the GGs have more merit than the FB awards, not that the GG voters don't get it right sometimes.  If I'm not mistaken, you said yourself that Jeter was given, and deservedly so, some of his recent GG awards based on his reputation.  Is that a good way to determiine the best defender at SS?

    By the same token, Gardner has been passed over for the award, when he clearly deserved to win it.

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I disagree with a few others here on whether my opinion might be flawed because I did not watch every game of both Pedroia and Cano last season.

    Over the course of both of their careers I have seen enough of each player to provide to what I consider to be a well informed opinion.

    I'm not questioning your ability to give a well informed opinion TWM.  As I've told you in the past, I have no doubt that you know a good ballplayer when you see one, and that you know good defense when you see.   I'm only questioning your claim that Cano is the best defensive 2B in baseball, when you haven't seen the all the other 2B play regularly.

    I'm also questioning your opinion that the GGs have more merit than the FB awards, not that the GG voters don't get it right sometimes.  If I'm not mistaken, you said yourself that Jeter was given, and deservedly so, some of his recent GG awards based on his reputation.  Is that a good way to determiine the best defender at SS?

    By the same token, Gardner has been passed over for the award, when he clearly deserved to win it.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    " If I'm not mistaken, you said yourself that Jeter was given, and deservedly so, some of his recent GG awards based on his reputation."

     

    Don't know where you got that from Kimmi. Certainly not from me. Imo no doubt Bill James sterling reputation (in New England) bouyed over the years by his criticism of Jeter.

    Jeter when he hangs them up will be considered as one of a handful as the greatest all around SS of all time.

    With or without James approval (doesn't matter) that is the way he will be inducted into Cooperstown..

    Because I am a Yankee first and foremost I wasn't happy with the manner Jeter handled his last contract negotiations coming off of bad numbers.

    I also criticized him for continuing to bat first in the order when he was struggling, his average was at or below .200 for over a month. I felt it was adversly effecting the team and at a time Gardner was healthy and putting up much better numbers then he.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I disagree with a few others here on whether my opinion might be flawed because I did not watch every game of both Pedroia and Cano last season.

    Over the course of both of their careers I have seen enough of each player to provide to what I consider to be a well informed opinion.

    I'm not questioning your ability to give a well informed opinion TWM.  As I've told you in the past, I have no doubt that you know a good ballplayer when you see one, and that you know good defense when you see.   I'm only questioning your claim that Cano is the best defensive 2B in baseball, when you haven't seen the all the other 2B play regularly.

    I'm also questioning your opinion that the GGs have more merit than the FB awards, not that the GG voters don't get it right sometimes.  If I'm not mistaken, you said yourself that Jeter was given, and deservedly so, some of his recent GG awards based on his reputation.  Is that a good way to determiine the best defender at SS?

    By the same token, Gardner has been passed over for the award, when he clearly deserved to win it.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    GG awards are not perfect but I personally feel that over the course of time they get much more right than they do wrong.

    The voters are the managers and coaches of both leagues who cannot vote for their own players. I can't think of a more fair system.

    I'm still upset John Wayne (True Grit) beat out Jon Voight (Midnight Cowboy) for the Oscar.

    Life isn't fair.

    Gardner was passed over 2010 the one season he has remained relatively healthy for Carl Crawford.

    As a Yankee fan I've been far more disappointed for other choices and awards down through the years than 2010 with Gardner.

    Gardner will be recognized but he needs to be more consistent and healthy before that happens.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    Cano has the tools to be better defensively than Pedroia, but doesn't concentrate at times. Dropping the ball when tranferring it too casually.  It looks great, because it is so smooth, when it comes off though.

    Pedroia has two things over Cano: he is quicker to his feet after diving (he is short) and he hardly ever makes a lazy mental error in the field.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cano has the tools to be better defensively than Pedroia, but doesn't concentrate at times. Dropping the ball when tranferring it, too casually.  It looks great, because it is so smooth, when it comes off though.

    Pedroia has two things over Cano: he is very quicker to his feet after diving (he is short) and he hardly ever makes a lazy mental error in the field.

    [/QUOTE]


    Cano doesn't need to dive or waste time doing it.

    Cano gets to balls in the outfield that Pedroia does not.

    Now that I have your attention the Sox do not have an edge in talent over the Yankee in the farm system.

    Gold Glove awards tomorrow night at 9 on ESPN II.

    Toodles.

     

     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to wallyisdead's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Cano has the tools to be better defensively than Pedroia, but doesn't concentrate at times. Dropping the ball when tranferring it, too casually.  It looks great, because it is so smooth, when it comes off though.

    Pedroia has two things over Cano: he is very quicker to his feet after diving (he is short) and he hardly ever makes a lazy mental error in the field.

    [/QUOTE]


    Cano doesn't need to dive or waste time doing it.

    Cano gets to balls in the outfield that Pedroia does not.

    Now that I have your attention the Sox do not have an edge in talent over the Yankee in the farm system.

    Gold Glove awards tomorrow night at 9 on ESPN II.

    Toodles.

     

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

    Cano sucks.

    [/QUOTE]


    You can make an argument for either when it comes to the GG.

    Cano had more innings and his post season pct was 1.000.

    One of the two will win.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/fielding/_/seasontype/2/position/2b/league/al/order/true

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    Gardner was passed over 2010 the one season he has remained relatively healthy for Carl Crawford.

    Gardner played in more games in 2011 than 2010.  But it doesn't matter.  The award shouldn't be dependent on whether Gardner can stay on the field enough years for writers to notice.  He was the best both of those years.  The writers didn't notice.  If the writers deciding the vote cannot tell that Gardner is better than Crawford, then the award is meaningless.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Gardner was passed over 2010 the one season he has remained relatively healthy for Carl Crawford.

    Gardner played in more games in 2011 than 2010.  But it doesn't matter.  The award shouldn't be dependent on whether Gardner can stay on the field enough years for writers to notice.  He was the best both of those years.  The writers didn't notice.  If the writers deciding the vote cannot tell that Gardner is better than Crawford, then the award is meaningless.

    [/QUOTE]


    GG award is based on a vote by the coaches and managers of both leagues not writers.

    They are not allowed to vote for their own players.

    They see these players enough to make an honest vote.

    I've never read where there were politics involved in the vote.

    Always a lot of disgruntled fans. 

    In 2011 Gardner was coming off of off season wrist surgery which did effect his play.

    I for one would love to see what he could do if he could stay healthy.

    Crawford had a decent year in LF in 2010. Gardner lost out to Alex Gordon in 2011 who is also a finalist again this season.

     

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    Robinson Cano's defensive lapse costs Yankees dearly in series ...  article.wn.com/.../2012/.../Robinson_Canos_defensive_lapse_costs_Y... 4 Sep 2012 – He was wrong, to be sure, not to dive for that ground ball in the ...published: 

      Sickels 120 top prospects

        Sox  11   36    41   59     90   105    119  

      NY   31   37   67   82  

    Nice call on Montero!  Must be sad to be desperate for attention, yawn.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Robinson Cano's defensive lapse costs Yankees dearly in series ...  article.wn.com/.../2012/.../Robinson_Canos_defensive_lapse_costs_Y... 4 Sep 2012 – He was wrong, to be sure, not to dive for that ground ball in the ...published: 

      Sickels 120 top prospects

        Sox  11   36    41   59     90   105    119  

      NY   31   37   67   82  

    Nice call on Montero!  Must be sad to be desperate for attention, yawn.

    [/QUOTE]


    The nerve of me. Defending Cano and Jeter, being a yankee fan and a Bill James agnostic too.

    All of the things you love to hate, nice to see you can still use google.

    Calling Montero dead after one season?

    Shows just how much you know.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to tom-uk's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Robinson Cano's defensive lapse costs Yankees dearly in series ...  article.wn.com/.../2012/.../Robinson_Canos_defensive_lapse_costs_Y... 4 Sep 2012 – He was wrong, to be sure, not to dive for that ground ball in the ...published: 

      Sickels 120 top prospects

        Sox  11   36    41   59     90   105    119  

      NY   31   37   67   82  

    Nice call on Montero!  Must be sad to be desperate for attention, yawn.

    [/QUOTE]


    Btw I based my opinion of the Yankee farms on where they were ranked 2012 preseason vs who they lost, gained.

    They had a few youngsters step up, Banuelos tj surgery the big news.

    I know of no scouts or rankings that I saw that had the Sox farm system ranked over the Yankees.

    Of course there has been one draft since that time.

    And the Sox might have picked up a few decent prospects in the recent trades.

    Soon enough that stuff will start coming out prior to the 2013 season.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Pedroia runner-up on Fielding Bible list

    In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

    Btw I based my opinion of the Yankee farms on where they were ranked 2012 preseason vs who they lost, gained. They had a few youngsters step up, Banuelos tj surgery the big news. I know of no scouts or rankings that I saw that had the Sox farm system ranked over the Yankees.Of course there has been one draft since that time. And the Sox might have picked up a few decent prospects in the recent trades. Soon enough that stuff will start coming out prior to the 2013 season.

    Baseball America ranked the Red Sox (No. 9) ahead of the Yankees (No. 13) in its 2012 preseason organization talent rankings:

    http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-talent-rankings/2012/2613155.html

    The FanGraphs preseason rankings had the Yankees at No. 10 and the Red Sox No. 11:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/ranking-the-30-minor-league-systems/

    John Sickels of Minor League Ball had the Red Sox at No. 11 and the Yankees at No. 16:

    http://www.minorleagueball.com/2012/1/23/2728027/2012-baseball-farm-system-rankings-prospects

     

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