People need to start being realistic

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]I've seen some ridiculous posts the last few days and i think its time for people to start thinking clearly 1. The Red Sox are not getting Matt Garza or Starlin Castro for Theo, the person dumb enough to trade a top of the rotation starter or a young shortstop who just led the league in hits, for someone who doesnt even play should be murdered so be realistic we are gonna probably get a prospect or two. 2. I've seen many trade Beckett posts, thats a terrible idea, he was the best pitcher on this team all year and you dont trade a commodity like him when we dont have the luxury of doing so, with our pitching in shambles Beckett is a huge part of the solution not part of the problem. 3. We will be extremely lucky to ever trade Lackey or Crawford, those two contracts will haunt us for years to come and while crawford has a chance at bouncing back he was never worth what we gave him and never will be, Lackey is a total disaster he is untradeable again if someone trades for him they should be killed. 4. Why trade Ellsbury? I've seen multiple trade Jacoby Ellsbury posts, yeah sure trade the guy who was the clear mvp choice before the collapse, and one of the only players who played well in september, the only way you trade Ellsbury is if you get equal value in return, for example Matt Kemp or Ryan Braun who are both highly unlikely to be dealt as should Ellsbury. To sum up all that I have said, think before you post because most of the deals suggested so far wouldnt even work on a video game.
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Were you reading posts from last month??
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    Led Zep, you just showed no qarter, sicking the black dog on all these livin lovin maids.  You left em' dazed and confused.  They all think that just because the levee breaks, there is going to be some kind of stairway to heaven.  Thank you for clearing up this communication breakdown.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

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    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : no this month
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Well... Posts about telling ppl start being realistic were from last month... maybe earlier this month... You get my point???
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    Trading Lackey is a great idea, but probably won't happen--too hard.

    Beckett needs to stay.  Keep Crawford and hope he gets better in 2012.  He can still help. 

    Right now Ellsbury is the best player on the team, so of course the Sox need to dump him for some middle reliever.  Trading him would be an act of insanity.  When everyone else was folding in September, he played hard and delivered, leading the team in dingers rbi's with 8 and 21.  Ortiz, meanwhile, got 1 dinger and 8 rbi's in September.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jgallag1. Show jgallag1's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    Trade Lackey for just about any other mediocre player you can. A bad contract where both players might spring back would be ideal. Especially if said player is a right handed RF or starter. I still say the big fix for all of this is to buy Pujols. He's the most feared right handed bat in the game and would be amazing with the Sox. And it just so happens a massive righty bat like his is the only thing missing for the Sox batting order. Then you only have to worry about starters # 4 and 5 and the Pen. The pen is an adventure every year, and there's a bunch of folks out there who would make servicable 4 and 5's. You may get one for Lackey who can spring back, you might have to go out on the market, or you may use a guy from AAA. But, even though the Sox have been Yankees-esque lately...you're always going to have holes in the team. Not everyone will be an all star...but if one of the greatest the game has seen is a possibility you nab him.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : no this month
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    On #4 - Trading Ellsbury. Those posts / threads since those are from Softlaw / Sons of Softlaw. The rumor is that he painted himself into a corner several years ago about Ellsbury and can't admit that he was wrong. Pay no attention to him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]I've seen some ridiculous posts the last few days and i think its time for people to start thinking clearly 1. The Red Sox are not getting Matt Garza or Starlin Castro for Theo, the person dumb enough to trade a top of the rotation starter or a young shortstop who just led the league in hits, for someone who doesnt even play should be murdered so be realistic we are gonna probably get a prospect or two. 2. I've seen many trade Beckett posts, thats a terrible idea, he was the best pitcher on this team all year and you dont trade a commodity like him when we dont have the luxury of doing so, with our pitching in shambles Beckett is a huge part of the solution not part of the problem. 3. We will be extremely lucky to ever trade Lackey or Crawford, those two contracts will haunt us for years to come and while crawford has a chance at bouncing back he was never worth what we gave him and never will be, Lackey is a total disaster he is untradeable again if someone trades for him they should be killed. 4. Why trade Ellsbury? I've seen multiple trade Jacoby Ellsbury posts, yeah sure trade the guy who was the clear mvp choice before the collapse, and one of the only players who played well in september, the only way you trade Ellsbury is if you get equal value in return, for example Matt Kemp or Ryan Braun who are both highly unlikely to be dealt as should Ellsbury. To sum up all that I have said, think before you post because most of the deals suggested so far wouldnt even work on a video game 
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]  Yeah there have been some crazy ideas for trades on here. Wish some posters were GMs for other teams. Doesnt mean you have to jump on them..let everyone have their dream. I think you are wrong about keeping Beckett but i wouldnt bring it up. He is a bad influence , pitched terrible when it counted, and could care less about being a team guy. Go back and read Lesters comments and he is Becketts friend! I dont understand trading Els, if we cant afford or want to deal with Boras in 2 years what other team would?
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    Trading Beckett might not be a bad idea. In the least, it might have to be considered. The Sox don't have lots of tradeable players. So, he might have to be considered in a trade. He did have a good year, but faultered when it mattered most, as did Lester and Lackey. But if you can package Beckett with let's say Lackey or Youk, then you pull the trigger. Beckett has had his share of injuries and lack of conditioning issues. He is not not replaceable if the right deal comes along. Same with Youk. Love the guy, appreciated all he does, but if he can't remain healthy then it might be time to entertain a trade with him as well. Who would have thought gettin rid of Nomar was the best move. And look how that turned out. So, the idea needs to be open if the Sox have a chance to get better via trade.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : Even if Beckett is a bad influence, with this pitching staff we cant afford to get rid of a top of the rotation starter, Manny was a bad influence and we hung onto him for 7 1/2 years
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Completely different. Manny played everyday and was a factor every day. One of the best clutch hitters. Beckett pitches every 5th game. Big difference. It is not like Beckett is Halladay or Verlander.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]I've seen some ridiculous posts the last few days and i think its time for people to start thinking clearly 1. The Red Sox are not getting Matt Garza or Starlin Castro for Theo, the person dumb enough to trade a top of the rotation starter or a young shortstop who just led the league in hits, for someone who doesnt even play should be murdered so be realistic we are gonna probably get a prospect or two. 2. I've seen many trade Beckett posts, thats a terrible idea, he was the best pitcher on this team all year and you dont trade a commodity like him when we dont have the luxury of doing so, with our pitching in shambles Beckett is a huge part of the solution not part of the problem. 3. We will be extremely lucky to ever trade Lackey or Crawford, those two contracts will haunt us for years to come and while crawford has a chance at bouncing back he was never worth what we gave him and never will be, Lackey is a total disaster he is untradeable again if someone trades for him they should be killed. 4. Why trade Ellsbury? I've seen multiple trade Jacoby Ellsbury posts, yeah sure trade the guy who was the clear mvp choice before the collapse, and one of the only players who played well in september, the only way you trade Ellsbury is if you get equal value in return, for example Matt Kemp or Ryan Braun who are both highly unlikely to be dealt as should Ellsbury. To sum up all that I have said, think before you post because most of the deals suggested so far wouldnt even work on a video game.
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    This team needs pitching, and has a surplus of offense.  Ellsbury is coming off what will probably be the best year of his career - we can either squeeze two more out of him now, hoping he doesn't become injured or ineffective, or we can use him to bolster our weakness, which is pitching.  He's our best trade chip - why is it so unreasonable to want to sell high on him?


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]slomag Ellsbury has become our best all around player you dont trade your best player unless you are rebuilding which clearly the sox are not, so you dont trade him yes the pitching is bad but who are you going to get for elsbury that is worth equal value not if its not Verlander, Hernandez, or halladay then its not worth it and those 3 arent available anyway
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    I would not trade Ellsbury for Verlander or Halladay, but Hernandez is a possibility - it would take more than just Ellsbury though.  My preference would be a young pitcher that frees up some payroll flexibility, or a combination of a starter and reliever like Tommy Hanson & O'Flaherty, Kimbrel or Venters from the Braves.  Bumgarner from the Giants.  Both teams need offense very badly.  I think your mistake is that you can't see past one year at a time.  No matter how we handle this off-season, Ellsbury will not be on the roster in 2014.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    How about the guys like GhostofTito who if you said we could get Fielder at DH, Tulo at SS, Y. Molina at catcher, and Roy Halladay at starter, but had to go with Reddick in RF, he'd blast you for having too much faith in that one bum.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    Hey Moonslob, when did I ever even mention Tulowitzki? When did I ever mention Molina? When did I ever mention Fielder?
    Just make it up as you go along, right Mr.Fake GM/CPA?.
    Also, anyone who'd rather have Felix than Verlander is lacking any baseball acumen.
    How about another endless, unreadable, rambling, drooling post, answering this one? Don't forget to quote Fangraphs, WAR and zone rating, for your fellow souless stat geeks to absorb.
    19,865 coming up!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]I've seen some ridiculous posts the last few days and i think its time for people to start thinking clearly 1. The Red Sox are not getting Matt Garza or Starlin Castro for Theo, the person dumb enough to trade a top of the rotation starter or a young shortstop who just led the league in hits, for someone who doesnt even play should be murdered so be realistic we are gonna probably get a prospect or two. 2. I've seen many trade Beckett posts, thats a terrible idea, he was the best pitcher on this team all year and you dont trade a commodity like him when we dont have the luxury of doing so, with our pitching in shambles Beckett is a huge part of the solution not part of the problem. 3. We will be extremely lucky to ever trade Lackey or Crawford, those two contracts will haunt us for years to come and while crawford has a chance at bouncing back he was never worth what we gave him and never will be, Lackey is a total disaster he is untradeable again if someone trades for him they should be killed. 4. Why trade Ellsbury? I've seen multiple trade Jacoby Ellsbury posts, yeah sure trade the guy who was the clear mvp choice before the collapse, and one of the only players who played well in september, the only way you trade Ellsbury is if you get equal value in return, for example Matt Kemp or Ryan Braun who are both highly unlikely to be dealt as should Ellsbury. To sum up all that I have said, think before you post because most of the deals suggested so far wouldnt even work on a video game.
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Mr. LedZeppelin sir,

    These points are all so logical and well thought out that they must have come from Over The Hills and Far Away.

    You might just say 'That's the way its gotta be......"
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : Completely different. Manny played everyday and was a factor every day. One of the best clutch hitters. Beckett pitches every 5th game. Big difference. It is not like Beckett is Halladay or Verlander.
    Posted by antiqueman1[/QUOTE]

    Why, because unlike Roy and Justin, Josh has World Series rings? 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

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    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]another thing i have seen recently is people severely overvaluing our minor leaguers and players like lowrie kalish and reddick, i saw a proposed deal on here that was lowrie reddick and a prospect for josh johnson and i am not kidding that wouldnt get you ricky nolasco nevermind josh johnson. the truth is the red sox top prospects are all in the lower monor leagues except iglesias whos value is way down after this year
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Are you texting with a Blackberry that has chit on the CAPS and comma keys while riding a horse?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

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    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]slomag first youre telling me you wouldnt want justin verlander? second the braves are not trading tommy hanson and the giants are not trading madison bumgarner even if they need offense they wont trade young potential aces (in the case of hanson already an ace) for someone with 2 years then free agency. Ellsbury is needed here, hes a proven .300 hitting, gold glove caliber, power hitting centerfielder, Who would replace him? also felix hernandez is not a possibility the mariners would want 5 great prospects in return and felix is under contract for 4 more years i believe
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Which is it?  Is Ellsbury too good to let go, or is he not good enough to yield a meaningful return?  It can't be both.

    If you're Frank Wren, you have one year left on your contract, and you have Minor & Teheran scratching for a spot in the rotation, with Delgado and Vizcaino knocking at the door, how do you think you improve your offense in 2012?  They hoarded this talent specifically so they could trade it - somebody is going to get some young Atlanta arms - it might as well be the Sox.

    Felix has 3 more years, but I don't think they're close enough to have much interest in Ellsbury.  They might stand the best chance of extending him, though, being the closest MLB team to his home in OR.


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]another thing i have seen recently is people severely overvaluing our minor leaguers and players like lowrie kalish and reddick, i saw a proposed deal on here that was lowrie reddick and a prospect for josh johnson and i am not kidding that wouldnt get you ricky nolasco nevermind josh johnson. the truth is the red sox top prospects are all in the lower monor leagues except iglesias whos value is way down after this year
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    I don't think Lowrie has much value, but you have to look at what the Marlins have in Josh Johnson - a guy who is eating up a quarter of their payroll, and has developed a reputation for being injury-prone.  If the Marlins deal Johson, they sell low, but if they don't, and he's injured again, they might not be able to give him away.  For a team like the Marlins, a $27M gamble is pretty significant.  I think they deal him somewhere this winter, but hold on to Ramirez.  I think two top propspects would be enough - maybe Ranaudo and Iglesias.


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : I don't think Lowrie has much value, but you have to look at what the Marlins have in Josh Johnson - a guy who is eating up a quarter of their payroll, and has developed a reputation for being injury-prone.  If the Marlins deal Johson, they sell low, but if they don't, and he's injured again, they might not be able to give him away.  For a team like the Marlins, a $27M gamble is pretty significant.  I think they deal him somewhere this winter, but hold on to Ramirez.  I think two top propspects would be enough - maybe Ranaudo and Iglesias.
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]If you are right he's a gamble for the Marlins financially isn't he a risk for the RS in opportunity cost is a minor league system that is not deep?

    Personally I think Loria tries to field his team this year and not make trades that look like he's taking the new stadium money and running but we will see.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

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    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]slomag we dont have enough to get felix and my point with hanson and bumgarner is they wont be traded they are both great young pitchers under team control for at least 5 more years while ellsbury is under control for only 2 more and his agent is boras the braves and giants wont trade great young pitchers for anyone with only 2 years remaining and boras
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    How about Jurjjens and Vizcaino then?  How about Teheran and Venters or Kimbrel?  How about Lincecum straight-up?  How about Cain and Romo?  There are plenty of possibilities to make both teams stronger.  

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : If you are right he's a gamble for the Marlins financially isn't he a risk for the RS in opportunity cost is a minor league system that is not deep? Personally I think Loria tries to field his team this year and not make trades that look like he's taking the new stadium money and running but we will see.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]

    Yes, and I'm not saying make the move, but I think that is what it would take to get it done.  I would prefer to see an Ellsbury trade for some of the other guys I mentioned. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

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    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]teheran venters and kimbrel are going nowhere, same with vizcaino, lincecum isnt going anywhere and neither is cain. you are suggesting number 1 starters and top 20 prospects something about pitching is never trade depth we learned that in 06 when theo traded arroyo for wily mo pena the braves would counter all of the deals you propsed with stuff like either vizcaino or teheran straight up  because they dont want to lose them, and cain and lincecum are two proven ace type starters and no one trades aces unless they are rebuilding.
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    Now you think the Braves will offer a AAA player for the great Jacoby Ellsbury?  It's hard to get a read on how you feel about him.  

    I'll be very surprised if the Braves don't move some of their pitching for offense this off-season.  Their collapse was as bad as ours, and their GM has only one more chance to make a splash.  

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    look, Lackey is still putting up 93/94 on the gun. that tells me all is not lost. I asssume that Young is tossed with the rest of the trash, so focus s/b on a pitching coach that can get him back on track.
    I am also sick of the role model bs. where was Tito, Hale and Bogar? If things are not going the way Tito wanted them to, he should have set some rules and enforced them.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

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    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]slomag just because you want somebody doesnt mean that they will deal them, i would love to have pedro of 2000 but that doesnt mean ill get him, the guys youve mentioned are considered untouchable by their organizations
    Posted by LedZeppelin1969[/QUOTE]

    I mentioned six Braves players - do you think a team coming off one of the biggest collapses in baseball history has six untouchable players?  Do we?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: People need to start being realistic

    In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: People need to start being realistic : Now you think the Braves will offer a AAA player for the great Jacoby Ellsbury?  It's hard to get a read on how you feel about him.   I'll be very surprised if the Braves don't move some of their pitching for offense this off-season.  Their collapse was as bad as ours, and their GM has only one more chance to make a splash.  
    Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]I don't think the Braves John Schuerholz is going to manage Frak Wren in one year windows or that he is going to trade pitching for hitting any more than he did in 90's.
     
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