1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    I agree with these moves. The Beckett and Lackey moves HAVE to be made.

    Here are four moves to fix the Red Sox for 2013:


    No. 1: Trade Josh Beckett and $20 million of his remaining $31.5 million to the Braves for shortstop pospect Tyler Pastornicky.


    No. 2: Trade Jacoby Ellsbury for a starter. How about Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers? Ellsbury is going to impossible to sign, or exceedingly costly. Get pitching back now before it's too late.


    No. 3: Sign free agent James Shields.


    No. 4: Release John Lackey. Or trade him for whatever you can get, maybe somebody else's bad contract. Eating $30.50 million would sting. But it would be worth twice as much in positive publicity and send a clear message to the fan base that it's a new era.


    This creates a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, Shields, Billingsley and Doubront. Make Franklin Morales a long reliever/spot starter.

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    Fire Bill James. Send him back to Stokely foods....his theories don't work with this team.
     
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    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    It is great to see the dummy is paid to make the same list out that 50% of this board has been talking baout for 4 months!  We should be getting paid!!!!
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jarretfromportsmouth. Show jarretfromportsmouth's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    I like the idea of making moves, but the Braves would NEVER do that trade.  I dont think they'd do it if the Sox paid all of Beckett's contract.

    As for Lackey they npw have a club option for the 3rd year at the league minimum (because of his TJ surgery), so you have to look at his contract differently, really he is making 30 million, but you get a 3rd year for almost nothing.  its worth it to bring him to ST and see how is attitude and pitching ability are before trying to move him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    I agree with these moves. The Beckett and Lackey moves HAVE to be made. Here are four moves to fix the Red Sox for 2013: No. 2: Trade Jacoby Ellsbury for a starter. How about Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers? Ellsbury is going to impossible to sign, or exceedingly costly. Get pitching back now before it's too late.
    Posted by ADG

    Chad Billingsley, who is nearly a year younger than Jacoby Ellsbury, has been valued at more career WAR* (19.6) than Ellsbury (18.1) despite Ellsbury's stellar 9.4 WAR in 2011.

    Ellsbury remains under his team's control through only next season, working off his 2012 salary of $8.05 million. Billingsley's contract calls for an $11 million salary in 2013 and $12 million in 2014 with a $14 million team option, or $3 million buyout, for 2015.

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    Billingsley, in the AL East/Fenway, is worth what Obama's Hope and Change is worth.
    Posted by TrotterNixon

    And Jacoby Ellsbury would be a .263/.314/.372/.685 hitter in the National League West ...

    ... wait, those are Ellsbury's numbers this year in the American League East.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/ellsbja01.shtml
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    Softlaw good post.  I would say that if you are okay with giving Ortiz a golden parachute year, then you should be open to giving him a 2 yr deal.  He's going to earn his contract next year, so if you are okay w/ overpaying him for a year, give him 2 yrs (the second year being the golden parachute year).  You alluded to this yourself, and I agree.  I would even contemplate a 3 yr deal if the $/yr was reasonable (3 yr / 30M I'd do, 2 yr / 25M I'd do, 1 yr 15M I'd do).  Obviously the more years you tack on , the less I am willing to give per year.

    I disagree when you say the 2004 Schilling and the 2006 Beckett's arent out there. Schilling wasnt particularly young when we got him.  We dont need a young ace.  We need an ace.  

    Id feel much better about

    Acquired Ace
    Buchholz
    Lester
    Doubront
    Lackey
    Morales

    Than 

    Buchholz
    Lester
    Doubront
    Lackey 
    Morales

    Also, our "window" will be closing soon.  We have CC's contract to thank for that.  I think that if we can sign Ortiz to a 2 year deal, this opens up a 2 year window to compete for a championship.  Therefore reliable/durable/pitchers between the ages of 29-31 who do not have absurd contrcats should be considered.  These guys are out there.  We just may need to break the Theo rule, which is: no major leaguer out there is worth any of your prospects (man, did Theo overrate his own prospects or what?)
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    Trotternixon,

    I won't repeat your length, lengthy response to Abraham's commentary, but will say I too mostly agree with it.

    It is astonishing how bad lineup has been since Ortiz left, despite AGon getting hot.  But I disagree with the golden parachute, as does Abraham, who recommends one year at the current salary.  With all your comments about racism, you keep ignoring the fact Ortiz is easily the highest paid DH in MLB by a good margin.  You also ignore the fact the could very well finish this season on the DL because of a ridiculous injury from trotting around the bases after a dinger.  You complain about Ellsbury, but Ortiz is the fragile one at age 36, 37 next year. Also, the Sox can't afford golden parachutes the way the Yankees can.

    I hear you on Iglesias, but an awful lot of Red Sox talent evaluators have looked at him, and Ciriaco got the nod.  And Aviles has mostly kept the SS slot because he is steady in the field and a run producer. As Abraham points out, Iglesias at his best hits singles. 

    I agree Lester should return to form and maybe has, but disagree it's simply confidence.  Buchholz is less confident than Lester--proven over the years--but has a better assortment of pitches which we saw last night.  Lester believes in his fastball and cutter, period.  Curves and changeups are waste pitches which hitters can ignore.  I agree with you and Abraham on Beckett.

    Ortiz signing with the Yankees?  Doubtful.  ARod gets that job. 

    I too have not been impressed with Shields. 

    Hernandez would be worth almost whatever Seattle wants. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    I agree with these moves. The Beckett and Lackey moves HAVE to be made.

    Here are four moves to fix the Red Sox for 2013:


    No. 1: Trade Josh Beckett and $20 million of his remaining $31.5 million to the Braves for shortstop pospect Tyler Pastornicky.

    I think we can pay less of Beckett's deal than $20M, and we are stacked at SS right now with over 5 good to great prospects, some of which are ready by 2013.


    No. 2: Trade Jacoby Ellsbury for a starter. How about Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers? Ellsbury is going to impossible to sign, or exceedingly costly. Get pitching back now before it's too late.

    Won't happen. 1 year of control for several years is not something LAD is looking to do.


    No. 3: Sign free agent James Shields.


    He's not a FA. There's no way TB turns down these options:
    13:$9M club option ($1.5M buyout), 14:$12M club option ($1M buyout)
    They may trade him, but he will not be a FA. By the way, Tb need a catcher real bad.

    No. 4: Release John Lackey. Or trade him for whatever you can get, maybe somebody else's bad contract. Eating $30.50 million would sting. But it would be worth twice as much in positive publicity and send a clear message to the fan base that it's a new era.

    "public publicity" never wins any games. Better to let him play some, then try to trade him. Remember, Lackey plays for the league minimum in 2015 due to the injury clause, so his cost is really $30.5M/3. If he shows he can be a decent #4 starter, someone will give us something decent for him if we pay half his deal. We save $15M and get a player in return. Sure b eats cutting him.


    This creates a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, Shields, Billingsley and Doubront. Make Franklin Morales a long reliever/spot starter.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    Ortiz is an easy case. A year later he is no longer worth the arbitration pay raise because of age, high miles and recent injury status. During the window for FA negotiations for the Red Sox, if Ortiz passes de facto physical test, offer Ortiz a 2 year deal at base 8 with maximum CBA allowed performance options. Likely that Ortiz won't be able to deliver over 2 years, but he's earned the golden parachute. If Ortiz isn't able to recover from the injury, offer him a lifetime services/consultant contract of some sort.

    softy called me a racist for suggesting a 3 year offer (last a club option) that amounted to about $10M/3. Now this silliness.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    Ortiz is an easy case. A year later he is no longer worth the arbitration pay raise because of age, high miles and recent injury status. During the window for FA negotiations for the Red Sox, if Ortiz passes de facto physical test, offer Ortiz a 2 year deal at base 8 with maximum CBA allowed performance options. Likely that Ortiz won't be able to deliver over 2 years, but he's earned the golden parachute. If Ortiz isn't able to recover from the injury, offer him a lifetime services/consultant contract of some sort. softy called me a racist for suggesting a 3 year offer (last a club option) that amounted to about $10M/3. Now this silliness.
    Posted by moonslav59


    I actually don't agree with him on the Ortiz thing. Let me try free agency and see what type of offers he gets. He sure isn't worth $14M. Imagine if that money was put towards a pitcher. If you can trade Beckett and eat only have of that, that's $20M right there.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013 : I actually don't agree with him on the Ortiz thing. Let me try free agency and see what type of offers he gets. He sure isn't worth $14M. Imagine if that money was put towards a pitcher. If you can trade Beckett and eat only have of that, that's $20M right there.
    Posted by ADG


    In today's market $14M will get you a #3 pitcher.  You're going to jettison the best hitter on the team for a #3 pitcher?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    Drew, we have about $28M to spend, not counting Papi. If we spend $14M on Papi, then there is only $14M for a starter.  If we don't sign papi, we could spend $20+M on a starter. (Not my plan, but still an option.)

    For agument's sake, let's say this is the choice:

    $28M to spend...

    Papi $14M
    Marcum $14M
    No OF additions.

    Greinke $19M
    Ross $6M
    2 pitchers like Cook and Padilla for $3M

    Peavy $20M
    Ross $6M
    1 pitcher at $2M

    It's not a slam dunk that signing Papi is the best choice.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013 : In today's market $14M will get you a #3 pitcher.  You're going to jettison the best hitter on the team for a #3 pitcher?
    Posted by Drewski5

    If only 19 MLB pitchers (including one reliever) earn an annual salary of at least $14 million, many teams are getting No. 3 pitchers (and even No. 1 pitchers) for less than $14 million:

    http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/position/p/2012
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from mryazz. Show mryazz's posts

    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    • David Ortiz made a pretty good case for returning in 2013 at the same salary when he was playing. His case got even stronger once he went to the DL. The Sox lineup is not remotely as dangerous without David. Peter, a disciple of Softlaw checking in. Your first bullet point, is that alright to say without harrassment from the Black Panther Party or Eric Holder, is 100% correct, which reflects poorly on the racist fans who, for years, have wanted "that money spent elsewhere". I'm happy for David, because ownership has used Red Sox fan animus to put the GM's office into the hard line approach. Now, most Red Sox fans will be meek over the winter and management will have to temper it's hard line approach. It's really simple, Ortiz has earned his golden parachute and/or one welfare year contract, whereas Crawford, Ellsbury, Beckett, Wakefield and Varitek did not. Ortiz is the only veteran Red Sox player who has produced at a higher league level for every contract year. Disrespected, you betcha! Pink hats are still slobbering over Ellsbury, who has a problem showing up for work, even though he's in his twenties.  Ortiz is an easy case. A year later he is no longer worth the arbitration pay raise because of age, high miles and recent injury status. During the window for FA negotiations for the Red Sox, if Ortiz passes de facto physical test, offer Ortiz a 2 year deal at base 8 with maximum CBA allowed performance options. Likely that Ortiz won't be able to deliver over 2 years, but he's earned the golden parachute. If Ortiz isn't able to recover from the injury, offer him a lifetime services/consultant contract of some sort.   • It's easy to understand why Red Sox players don't like playing for Bobby Valentine. He has his own way of doing things and he's not particularly interested in propping you up emotionally. He wants to be their manager, not their friend. But what did the players think was going to happen when they got Terry Francona fired? The Red Sox weren't going to hire Francona's bench coach or one of Francona's friends or a young Francona. They were going to look for the anti-Francona and that's Valentine. The players created this mess and invited Valentine in. If they liked playing for Francona so much, they shouldn't have had the worst collapse in the history of baseball and disrespected the guy at the same time. Francona said on his way out that he felt like he lost the clubhouse. Did the players think ownership didn't hear that? The players' player lack of leadership is 100% the problem. You have used a lot of words, but you are correct that it's not about the manager. • The Sox have an interesting decision to make with their catchers. Jarrod Saltalamacchia is hitting .229 with a .285 OBP and that negates his power to some degree. It's also tough to ignore that the team was 26-16 when Kelly Shoppach started. Salty clearly was nothing more than back-up catcher and back-up first baseman. You are 100% correct on the fact that Salty isn't cutting it in the starting catcher role, which is why a very smart Daniels put him in the Texas dumpster. Now is probably the time to see what Ryan Lavarnway can do. Then a good decision can be made. Actually, they should already know what Lavarnway can do. They should have moved on from Salty (trade plus he has an option) and cheaply extended Shoppach to a short term contract, and gone ahead with Lavarnway's sink or swim test.   • The people at Pawtucket say that Jose Iglesias is making better contact in recent weeks and looks much more comfortable at the plate. But it's worrisome that he has only 11 extra-base hits all season. Mark Belanger hit .228 and helped the Orioles win a lot of games with his glove. But at this point, Iglesias may not hit .228. The reality is that all a top fielding SS has to do to earn his starting keep is possess good fundamentals on bunting/sacrifice and making contact with the right swing to proficiently move runners up. A SS who kills rallies, with his glove, gives pitchers confidence and changes the W/L record more than the box score slash line of a UIF'er like Aviles. Most fans look at SS as a hitting position, which is why the incompetent InEpstein and Cherry continue to keep trying to find slugging at the position. They times they, by default, ended up with good fielding SS, they didn't have a clue what it brought the team. Between Iglesias and Ciriaco, the Red Sox don't need to spend big on a SS, and they need to write down Punto, over the winter, and trade Aviles for a farm scrap. Who cares that Aviles can hit it over the green wall between his minor league OBP, he can't make the tough plays in critical game moments, at SS. Aviles has more value traded than as the UIF for the Red Sox. • Would love to see Ryan Kalish play a bunch of games this winter in the Dominican Republic. Bet that would get his career on track. Kalish missed an entire season or more, and has very little consistent time and position in the majors. Barring further long time out from injuries, Kalish will end up, worst case, a capable platoon OF'er. I think he will end up with a career that includes several seasons as a MLB season starting OF'er.  • Wonder if Jon Lester and Tim Lincecum, two 28-year-olds from the state of Washington, ever talk? Lester is 6-10, 5.20 with a 1.37 WHIP over 24 starts and 147 innings. Lincecum is 6-13, 5.45 with a 1.50 WHIP over 25 starts and 140.1 innings. Maybe Lester should grow his hair long and Lincecum should get a crew cut. Can't hurt. Lester's issues are a fragile confidence. Due to Beckett's lack of leadership, Lester has not responded well to being the stopper. Lester will return to his better form, already had a good last start, once Buch is officially the quiet but top Red Sox starter and Beckett is long gone. I'm not worried about Lester, but Tim pitches in the NL and is very slightly built and has not shown Pedro like talent in the AL. I'll bet on Lester, over Tim, over the next 3 or 4 years. • Attention Red Sox: An easy way to improve your public image would be to ask Josh Beckett to take down the novelty bottle opener that says "First Class White Trash" hanging from his locker. It shows up in every TV interview he does. Of course, somebody in the organization would have to come up with the moxie to ask Josh to do something first. Beckett represents The Problem, as the failed players' leadership. However, it's his poor work ethic and failure to make he and his fellow players individually accountable that is The Problem. He is the antithesis of Schilling. But to pick on his bottle opener speech is both PC and intellectually weak. Why not timidly tread on the IPOD songs you hear coming from Carl Crawford. Beckett is that white trash that Obama referred to in his racial slur ,"they" cling to their Bibles and Guns. Unfortunately, Beckett isn't clinging to his Bible like he clings to his guns.    • Kevin Youkilis is hitting .198 since the All-Star break. Wonder if the Yankees would sign him on the cheap over the winter as A-Rod insurance? Right idea, wrong profile. The Yankees would be better off singing Ortiz, if they want to sign a one year DH/backup 1B contract. Much better value and fit, and less of washing up. Youk, as much as I like what he brought to the Red Sox, is now washed up as a starter. At best, he's a platoon guy and the Yankees can find a better A-Rod insurance fit than Youk. • Here are four moves to fix the Red Sox for 2013: No. 1: Trade Josh Beckett and $20 million of his remaining $31.5 million to the Braves for shortstop pospect Tyler Pastornicky.   Right concept, at least No. 2: Trade Jacoby Ellsbury for a starter. How about Chad Billingsley of the Dodgers? Ellsbury is going to impossible to sign, or exceedingly costly. Get pitching back now before it's too late. Ellsbury is going to be "impossible to sign" because he's not worth/value what the market will bring, which will be less than Crawford. When the Red Sox got the surprise career year, after AGon was brought in, they should have traded him last winter for J. Upton type of profile. Yes, blocked prospects and Ellsbury for 2 years plus high draft compesnation would have done that trade. No. 3: Sign free agent James Shields (assuming the Rays don't pick up his option). He can handle the AL East. Shields is a bum. He has high miles and the Rays are sticking him in their dumpster for reasons beyond his market value. He'd fit right in to the Red Sox Country Clubhouse. No. 4: Release John Lackey. Or trade him for whatever you can get, maybe somebody else's bad contract. Eating $30.50 million would sting. But it would be worth twice as much in positive publicity and send a clear message to the fan base that it's a new era. Beckett needs to be gone over the winter. Lackey will need to be able to pitch marginally so he passes the de facto physical. Then will be the time to do what you are correclty stating. This creates a rotation of Lester, Buchholz, Shields, Billingsley and Doubront. Make Franklin Morales a long reliever/spot starter. Rotation should not include Little Game James and/or Billingsley: It should be: Buchholz Lester Doubrant One year low single digits veteran/farm One year low single digits veteran/farm One year low single digits veteran/farm x 4 for depth Bettern to spend base 10 to 12M on 4 or 5 veteran pitchers, plus allowed performance incentives, than to spend on bums like Shields and Billingsley, to return to the Lackey method. Felix is the only pitcher good enough and young enough to take on multi-year big contract status. No, there isn't a Schilling 2004 or a young Bekcett 2006 out there. Why not text message the Phillies on Cliff Lee? That was a joke;)
    Posted by TrotterNixon

    i didn't know they piled sh1t this high.

     
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    Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013

    In Response to Re: Peter Abraham on Fixing the Sox for 2013:
    Billingsley, in the AL East/Fenway, is worth what Obama's Hope and Change is worth.
    Posted by TrotterNixon

    what are you worth?