Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    As Notin said above, comparable prospects for the Red Sox to give up would have been Ranaudo and Inglesias plus a third and $2 mil. I am glad that we stood pat.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]     All they gave up for him was 2 decent, but not blue chip AA prospects...and another so-so prospect, plus a "player to be named later". Highway robbery to land an all-star caliber right-fielder: http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2011/07/29/pence-trade-may-be-wades-defining-moment-need-to-vent-im-here-for-ya/#finalframe  
    Posted by TexasPat3[/QUOTE]

    Pence was a steal for the Phillies because Domonic Brown should have been part of the Astros demands.  Very poor move on the part of Houston, especially not to trade Pence out of the NL, or get Brown.  If they trade Bourne as well Astro fans "if any left" may as well save their money and not go to the park.

    We all know how these rankings of youngsters usually pan out and Brown in my opinion is better than probably any of the other three prospects will ever be.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    Was he litterally traded in the middle of the game?  Did anyone see how he was taken out mid game.  Can someone explain exactly what happened?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    Phillies will be tough to be beat that's for sure - is Lidge or Oswalt back yet?

    Ian Kennedy or Clayton Kershaw - why haven't those names come up?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    I'll only add that Pence, while a very good all around ball player, is not today, nor has he been in his career an impact bat "middle of the order bat". He profiles as a six hole hitter in our lineup and I assume will hit 5th for the Phillies. As such the Phil's deal seems to be more than enough compensation for a career .280 hitter with a little pop. he's no Ryan Braun who would command a blue chip package similar to the Teixera deal with the Braves and the Lee deal last year...

    That said, I would have loved to see him in a Sox uniform, reminds me of a young Dewey Evan's but that's water under the bridge now...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from thewags. Show thewags's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence : It shows very little faith or care by the Astros GM for his clubs future to trade their star player to another NL club for peanuts.
    Posted by craze4sox[/QUOTE]

    Yeah this was a weird one. This has been the strangest deadline. Unless offers werent really coming in, but that doesnt seem to be the case based on how hot he was reported to be in the trade market discussions.

    I wonder if the Astros dont think Pence is as good of a player as everyone else seems to think.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ice-Cream. Show Ice-Cream's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]So the Phillies "stole" Hunter Pence? Jonathan Singleton was the #39 prospect in MLB according the Baseball America's 2011 pre-season ranking. Jarred Cosart was #70 on the same list. The only 2 Red Sox prospects in the top 70 were Jose Iglesias (#52) and Anthony Ranaudo (#67). So if you have faith in those polls/rankings, the Phillies gave up a package the Sox could not even equal, yet somehow we were supposed to beat it easily?  I know there have been some changing in the rankings since then, but lets' not pretend it makes these players worthless and suddenly worse than ours...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you.

    The Phillies still gave up a lot for Pence. 


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]I'll only add that Pence, while a very good all around ball player, is not today, nor has he been in his career an impact bat "middle of the order bat". He profiles as a six hole hitter in our lineup and I assume will hit 5th for the Phillies. As such the Phil's deal seems to be more than enough compensation for a career .280 hitter with a little pop. he's no Ryan Braun who would command a blue chip package similar to the Teixera deal with the Braves and the Lee deal last year... That said, I would have loved to see him in a Sox uniform, reminds me of a young Dewey Evan's but that's water under the bridge now...
    Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE]

    Beantowne your right its all water under the bridge but I would still rather have Pence who hits all pitchers well than Quentin who hits lefties better.  If Reddick gets traded I guess that still leaves Kalish in the picture as our fourth OF next season.

    I'm hoping Theo is saving our chips for a SP and maybe LH in the pen over a RF.  Just the fact the Phils kept Brown is a huge steal for them and I can't believe the Astros also threw in some cash.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    Beantowne your right its all water under the bridge but I would still rather have Pence who hits all pitchers well than Quentin who hits lefties better. 

    Umm....
    Career:
    Quentin:
    vs RHPs: .854 (2011: .843)
    vs LHPs: .795 (2011: .913)

    Pence:
    vs RHPs: .814 (2011: .843)
    vs LHPs: .832 (2011: .780)

    Quentin hits RHPs better than lefties and better than Pence.
    Pence hits lefties better than Quentin career, but much worse this year.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SonicsMonksLyresVicars. Show SonicsMonksLyresVicars's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]So the Phillies "stole" Hunter Pence? Jonathan Singleton was the #39 prospect in MLB according the Baseball America's 2011 pre-season ranking. Jarred Cosart was #70 on the same list. The only 2 Red Sox prospects in the top 70 were Jose Iglesias (#52) and Anthony Ranaudo (#67). So if you have faith in those polls/rankings, the Phillies gave up a package the Sox could not even equal, yet somehow we were supposed to beat it easily?  I know there have been some changing in the rankings since then, but lets' not pretend it makes these players worthless and suddenly worse than ours...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    Notin, if I've paraphrased once I've paraphrased a thousand times:  puppet show first, Burrito second.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    That's one classy dumpster!

    If Quentin "reverts to his career norm" as you like to project, and at age 28 there is no reason to expect otherwise, here's his 162 game career norm:

    .253/.348/.491/.839

    32 HRS
    100 RBIs
    35  2B + 3Bs

    Now, imagine how AGon would help his numbers improve as he did with Jake. (LOL)
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]Beantowne your right its all water under the bridge but I would still rather have Pence who hits all pitchers well than Quentin who hits lefties better.  Umm.... Career: Quentin: vs RHPs: .854 (2011: .843) vs LHPs: .795 (2011: .913) Pence: vs RHPs: .814 (2011: .843) vs LHPs: .832 (2011: .780) Quentin hits RHPs better than lefties and better than Pence. Pence hits lefties better than Quentin career, but much worse this year.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    moon, look at career BA splits, OPS can easily be skewed by SLG. percentages etc.  If you want more power Quentin is the guy, a more consistent hitter its Pence.  Neither are incredible OBP guys.

    Pence career: BA against LHP 290
    Against RHP 290

    Quentin career: BA against LHP 222
    Against RHP 264
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    OBP is widely considered more important than BA. OBP is half of OPS. Slugging percentage is very important.

    Bill James considers OPS a better indicator of helping a team win than BA. He is not alone.

    Career OBP vs RHPs/LHPs:
    Quentin: .349/.345 (Very consistent)
    Pence:    .338/.340 (Very consistent, but slightly worse than Carlos and Carlos is much cheaper)

    By the way, going by your criteria (BA), Quentin does much better vs RHPs than LHPs: .264 to .222.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]OBP is widely considered more important than BA. OBP is half of OPS. Slugging percentage is very important. Bill James considers OPS a better indicator of helping a team win than BA. He is not alone. Career OBP vs RHPs/LHPs: Quentin: .349/.345 (Very consistent) Pence:    .338/.340 (Very consistent, but slightly worse than Carlos and Carlos is much cheaper) By the way, going by your criteria (BA), Quentin does much better vs RHPs than LHPs: .264 to .222.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    But we do need a RH bat that can hit lefties pretty well.  Carlos struggles badly but again has a better SLG. percentage.  I'm just not sure Carlos is the RH bat we need. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from brdbreu. Show brdbreu's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    i was just going to post the same thought, the phillies gave up viurtually nothing for an all star right fielder. i love josh reddick. dont mind keeping him. but who was smart and who wasnt re gm's and who got pence and who didnt (including atlanta and boston) and for how much.

    agree with texpat3

    re:"   With the Sox...it's championship, or bust. Right now, I don't see the Sox to be on the same level with the Phillies...who appear to be the best team in baseball. 

         I'm not saying that the Sox should have done whatever it took to get Pence. The Buchholtz back injury has made pitching their greatest need. I'm simply saying that the Phils got Pence cheap. "
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    Houston didn't want Domonic Brown. They don't want ML ready talent. Of they dod, they would've kept Pence.

    As for the Phils giving up nothing...if that's the case, the Sox had less than nothing to offer.

    I like our chances against PHI. Utley was hurt again this year, we'll see how he lasts. Howard is not the same guy of a few years ago. I'll take the Sox lineup over PHI any day of the week.

    I'll give PHIs staff, and bullpen, a slight nod. Yes, slight. Beckett/Halladay - Close, we've seen it before, nod to Halladay. Lee/Lester - Seen THAT before also, I'll take Lester by a half a length. Buchholz/Hamels - Assuming health for both, I'll say even. Oswalt/Lackey - Again assuming health for both, it's closer than people would think. Oswalt hasn't been great this year, under .500 and an ERA close to 4 in the NL, not having to pitch against his own lineup. 4 starters is more than enough to consider for playoff ball. Pap/Madsen - I'd rather, MUCH rather have Pap on the mound in the 9th of a WS game. But, the pen including Bastardo/Contreras/Lidge is better than what the Sox can trot out there.

    So, to me, the Phillies only have a slight advantage over the Sox at the top end of the rotation, and back end of the bullpen, but overall, it's very close. Both have been there and done that...I think it would make for a very interesting, 7 game World Series. Those first 2 games with those 4 pitchers would be simply amazing to watch.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]Houston didn't want Domonic Brown. They don't want ML ready talent. Of they dod, they would've kept Pence. As for the Phils giving up nothing...if that's the case, the Sox had less than nothing to offer. I like our chances against PHI. Utley was hurt again this year, we'll see how he lasts. Howard is not the same guy of a few years ago. I'll take the Sox lineup over PHI any day of the week. I'll give PHIs staff, and bullpen, a slight nod. Yes, slight. Beckett/Halladay - Close, we've seen it before, nod to Halladay. Lee/Lester - Seen THAT before also, I'll take Lester by a half a length. Buchholz/Hamels - Assuming health for both, I'll say even. Oswalt/Lackey - Again assuming health for both, it's closer than people would think. Oswalt hasn't been great this year, under .500 and an ERA close to 4 in the NL, not having to pitch against his own lineup. 4 starters is more than enough to consider for playoff ball. Pap/Madsen - I'd rather, MUCH rather have Pap on the mound in the 9th of a WS game. But, the pen including Bastardo/Contreras/Lidge is better than what the Sox can trot out there. So, to me, the Phillies only have a slight advantage over the Sox at the top end of the rotation, and back end of the bullpen, but overall, it's very close. Both have been there and done that...I think it would make for a very interesting, 7 game World Series. Those first 2 games with those 4 pitchers would be simply amazing to watch.
    Posted by ma6dragon9[/QUOTE]

    Buch may not pitch in this futuristic series. And Papi will spend 4 potential games
    waiting to PH. That affects the line-up big time. Right now, Philly is the team to beat.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence : Buch may not pitch in this futuristic series. And Papi will spend 4 potential games waiting to PH. That affects the line-up big time. Right now, Philly is the team to beat.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    And neither may Oswalt.

    And the Phils will have to run out a third rate DH for 3 and probably hit him 9th. And it's not such a bad thing to have him coming off the bench in what would likely be close games against a team with a good bullpen.

    There's always two sides of the coin.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Phillies Stole Hunter Pence

    It's still way to early to talk WS matchups, if both teams get there it'll come down who's 1-2 outpitches the others, timely hitting and quality innings from the middle relivers. Which is exactly what the Giant's with Lincecum and Cain did last year in both the NLCS and WS. In the end both teams are formitable foes, but they also have to run the table in thier respective league first.

    In the NL San Francisco might still be the team to beat? Thier pitching 1-4matches up with any in the NL or AL, and they just added Beltran and Cabrera to bolster thier lineup (the loss of Posey was huge). The Brewers are legit, they're starting pitching might be the 3rd best 1-4 in the NL and thier lineup matches up with the best, along with the addition of KRod thier pen is also stout...

    In the AL the Rangers and Yanks, both are teams that can crush the ball and let's remember in the post season the bullpens play a hugh role in bridging the 6th, 7th and 8th to get to the closer. On paper I'd give the edge to the Rangers staff Wilson, Holland & Ogando are a pretty good 1-2-3...Hard to hanicap the Central, but the Indians just got a whole lot better with the Jimenez pickup, I still like the Tiger's to prevail and they won't be a team that'll role over either.
    Suffice to say there's a lot of ball left to be played...

    My wishlist for today would be a solid RH bat to play RF and another quality lefty option out of the pen both would serve us well in the post season...
     

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