Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from modod. Show modod's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    In response to southpaw777's comment:

     

    In response to rkarp's comment:

     

    I posted this on the Pats board. Sub Arod for Ray Lewis and MLB for NFL

    Lets relook at the facts. HGH and steroids are miracle drugs that used under doctors supervision can be a huge benefit to the NFL in the recovery and comeback from injury and the usual week to week NFL grind. 

    If teams monitored usage safely, and not some underground supplier, players could greatly benefit.

    does "deer antler" extract have any adverse effects? Does I t really help? Did Ray Lewis come back from a potential season ending injury because of this extract? If he did, shouldn't the NFL be trying to help the players get healthier faster? 

    Prather than ignore the fact, hide it under the rug, or simply ban it, I prefer the NFL to embrace it to help players recover and comeback, as long as there are no adverse effects.

     




    very good point. I really havent looked at it that way, but it does make some sense.

     

     



    No sense in boring you with the fact that I have been inhaling steroids for 20 years under doctors supervision to superbly control asthma. Surely professional sports can find ways to use these drugs to improve players health. 

     

     




    Corticosteroids for asthma control are completely different from anabolic steroids that are PEDs.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    I believe in the early 2000's that 80% of players took PEDs at some point during their careers. I think that number is down to about 60%. The big difference is that then they took the drugs 24-7. Now they take them in a more timely fashion. Between tests, causing reduced benefits.

    I think 95% of football players, 80% of hockey players and even 30% of golfers and basketball players have taken PEDs during the last decade.

    Its sad that sports has been manipulated by these drugs to the point where its hard to compete without taking them.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to georom4's comment:

    if NFL players get any faster and stronger, they will have to outlaw tackling soon - the human body simply cant withstand 260 lb men crashing into you with the speed of a bullet train

    sometimes you just have to say no to "progress" / science

    we can still have great athletes and dynamic competition without drugging our players -  a lifetime ban for anyone caught using PEDs would end this nonsense once and for all and restore integrity to the game - if not they really will have to build a special PED wing in Cooperstown



    Agree 100 percent.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to rkarp's comment:

    Great post. My son is a college prospect down here in Florida. He has never takin anything other than protein drinks. But I can tell you that on his college team...RIGHT NOW, that most of the kids use at his school.what is worse, while playing in high school, a lot of his peers, throughout the state, we're using then also. WITH....the parents full knowledge. It is so easy to get, and I , in fact was asked just 2 weeks ago if I needed any testosterone cream for my son. The preasure is so great for these kids. The difference between throwing 88/90 or 92/93 as an 18 yr old can mean an awful lot to your draft status. Future health is not even being considered I can assure you

     

    I posted this on the Pats board. Sub Arod for Ray Lewis and MLB for NFL

    Lets relook at the facts. HGH and steroids are miracle drugs that used under doctors supervision can be a huge benefit to the NFL in the recovery and comeback from injury and the usual week to week NFL grind. 

    If teams monitored usage safely, and not some underground supplier, players could greatly benefit.

    does "deer antler" extract have any adverse effects? Does I t really help? Did Ray Lewis come back from a potential season ending injury because of this extract? If he did, shouldn't the NFL be trying to help the players get healthier faster? 

    Prather than ignore the fact, hide it under the rug, or simply ban it, I prefer the NFL to embrace it to help players recover and comeback, as long as there are no adverse effects.

     



    I don't know that I agree with "supervised use". At the end of the day the players all are using under doctors supervision...just not a doctor that's sanctioned by the league. Without going in to a prolonged polyanic diatribe (which I'm prone to do)...It's already been established by the medical community that use of anabolic steriods has long term health risk. The greater the use, the greater the risk.

     

    If one think's of the human body as an eco system. Increasing the amount of toxins that are released into the system. Just like the increased CO2 emmisions have on the planets atmoshere. Ulitamately when the balance is out of order the system breaks down and what was the norm becomes the exception and chaos ensues. At some point the planet as it has over the milliniums self corrects and the temperature plummets and the city of Boston will find itself under a couple of hundred feet of ice. Another Ice age is not a question of if but when...We humans, the stewards of the planet can delay the inevitable and if we don't change the current amount being released due to the burning of fossil fuels. We're serving to exipidite the natural cycle...though it might take another millinium or two before the climate gets to the blinking red light stage. As a society it's incumbent of all of mankind to continue the quest to burn cleaner engery and or continue down the road we're on with little regard for the generation to follow...

    By condoning and legilizing the use of performance enchancing drugs in professional sport. We're opening a can of worms that is best left un-opened. Becasue it then places more pressure on those that are now in college and HS to use and if and when the use of PEDS becomes the accepted norm, do we as parents then start cycling kids that are pre-pubesent? In hopes of them being a HS prospect? Where do we draw the line...




     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

    Drugs and Alchohol are poor examples...both are used for recreational purposes...and as such no one is pressured to use them to improve their work performance.

    point taken BT

    but my only point there was  that we do use age limits on such things

     that many consider undesirable behavior

     

    We can trivialize the pressures of the use of steroids at the youth level, but fact is that it is a real concern. We've already seen some of the effects that steroids had on HS and college football players. In the early years when lifting became the norm and bigger, faster, stronger meant that you had to hit the weights and pumping iron alone was replaced with the use of steroids...something that what'd become vogue in the football circles in the late 1960's and into the 70's. Have we now arrived at a place where in the interest of the spector of sport. We're willing to allow athletes to do whatever they want in the interest of bigger faster, stronger...to the point where if you're not inclined to use. You chances of making your HS team become slim....it's not a out the users...it's about those that work hard, eat right and make the most of their god given ability...as a parent of an athlete...one that might well be a legit college player. I'm not looking forward to the day when he and I will be faced with the choice...if it becomes an accepted norm...he won't have that choice if he wants to play..

    didn't mean to sound like I was trivializing anything

    IMO if the adults could use it

    the market for masking agents would shrink

    giving a better chance of catching   the suspected younger users

     

    .

    In the end I am not a strong propent of legalising or condoning the use of Peds at the professional level and think that not only should they continue to work towards purging sport of use. I think that it's is a moral obligation on all sport to stand firm and make the penalty for use so prohibitive if caught you're banned for life...1 strike and you're out.


    2 B honest BT I don't even know if

    there is such a thing as 'a false positive '

    but as long as that myth lives

    I don't see any players union agreeing to a 1 and done



    Zac,

    A couple of things...

    1) Placing an age limit on the use of steriods won't change anything regarding the current dynamics...they're already illigal without a doctors prescription. If you do the math there's millions of teenaged boys today trying to make thier HS teams and playing youth baseball with thousands more playing college ball. So legalizing the use in pro baseball would only serve to drive the use further down the chain and thus the market for ilicit peds would explode...If you add football to the equasion the numbers are staggering...

    2) Clearly MLB the NFL and the NCAA all benefit from and could not exist without the marque athletes. In part due to the moneys they reap from thier respective network tv deals and thier sponsors. So in terms of tougher penalties. It's not the players unions, that I see as the largest stumbling block to tougher penanties for use, it's those that benefit from the players performance that want thier cake and eat it too. MLB had the perfect platform too inact far tougher testing standards and penalties when congress got involved. Under the guise of "cleaning up the game", they negoitaited in the best interest of the bottom line. Make no mistake about it all parties with an interest were invloved in drafting and approving the ammendments to the CBA.

    3) Dispelling the myth? How many players that have been busted, proved that their test was a false positive? Braun used the chain of custody defense to wiggle out of his supension and so to did Sherman with the Seahawks.  I'm not a doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to debate whether it's posible or not. What I will say is that I've never read nor heard of any athlete that tested positive in any sport proving his or her test was eroneous.  


    My position on performance enhancing drugs is farily simple. They have no place in sport. Those that choose to use are cheating not only the game, but themselves. I don't care if Arod one day finds himself in a wheel chair due to the cause and effect of his abusing steriods. Life's about choices and he's made his bed.

    What I do care about is the implied need to use if you want to compete at the big league level. While many dismiss the larger social issue, fact is that every player currently in the game beggining at the HS level and onto and including all levels of college and professional baseball. The question of use is not if but when do they need to begin to ensure they don't get passed on the depth chart by someone that is. I'll repeat a comment I made earlier and that is by legalizing the use at the big league level. It will drive the use further down the chain and the fact of the matter is that are we as a society really ok with our athletes who are supposed to embody the idea of living healthy, all becoming freaks of nature.

    So the age old adage of Pitching, defense and timely hitting are the keys to winning...Will be replaced with Pitching, Defense, timely hitting and the best docters money can buy...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnchiladaT. Show EnchiladaT's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    Ortiz must be innocent, I would bet my entire life savings that he was the "one" player not doping.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    I have no problem with players using corticosteroids. Koufax got Cortisone shots every time he pitched. its the growth hormones that are the problem. If a player has a legitimate injury, a steroid injection for pain and healing is acceptable, IMO.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac35. Show pinstripezac35's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    BT

    1) Placing an age limit on the use of steriods won't change anything regarding the current dynamics...they're already illigal without a doctors prescription. If you do the math there's millions of teenaged boys today trying to make thier HS teams and playing youth baseball with thousands more playing college ball. So legalizing the use in pro baseball would only serve to drive the use further down the chain and thus the market for ilicit peds would explode...If you add football to the equasion the numbers are staggering...

    I can't go with ''wont change anything''

    while there is no perfect solution

    I do think it keeps the big money from working on the masking of the drugs

    thus making it easier to test / catch  the kids



    2) Clearly MLB the NFL and the NCAA all benefit from and could not exist without the marque athletes. In part due to the moneys they reap from thier respective network tv deals and thier sponsors. So in terms of tougher penalties. It's not the players unions, that I see as the largest stumbling block to tougher penanties for use, it's those that benefit from the players performance that want thier cake and eat it too. MLB had the perfect platform too inact far tougher testing standards and penalties when congress got involved. Under the guise of "cleaning up the game", they negoitaited in the best interest of the bottom line. Make no mistake about it all parties with an interest were invloved in drafting and approving the ammendments to the CBA.

    a lot of interesting stuff there BT

    could not exist without the marque athletes

    I'm thinking the fact that you included the ncaa

    kinda debunks your point

    in other words it doesn't take much to replace yesterdays star



    they negotiated in the best interest of the bottom line.

    I have NP with them doing that....more in a min



    3) Dispelling the myth? How many players that have been busted, proved that their test was a false positive? Braun used the chain of custody defense to wiggle out of his supension and so to did Sherman with the Seahawks.  I'm not a doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to debate whether it's posible or not. What I will say is that I've never read nor heard of any athlete that tested positive in any sport proving his or her test was eroneous. 

    I'm OK with all that BT

     as you know I didn't coin the phrase ''false positive''

     we are just entering the world of hgh testing

    which as far as I know ( granted not very far )

    the results are  not as black & white as past urine /roids test







    My position on performance enhancing drugs is farily simple. They have no place in sport. Those that choose to use are cheating not only the game, but themselves. I don't care if Arod one day finds himself in a wheel chair due to the cause and effect of his abusing steriods. Life's about choices and he's made his bed.

    What I do care about is the implied need to use if you want to compete at the big league level. While many dismiss the larger social issue, fact is that every player currently in the game beggining at the HS level and onto and including all levels of college and professional baseball. The question of use is not if but when do they need to begin to ensure they don't get passed on the depth chart by someone that is. I'll repeat a comment I made earlier and that is by legalizing the use at the big league level. It will drive the use further down the chain and the fact of the matter is that are we as a society really ok with our athletes who are supposed to embody the idea of living healthy, all becoming freaks of nature.

    clearly you have more faith  in what the system can accomplish

    than I do BT

    kinda surprising consider your feelings about the ''drug war''

    no news here

    but U R clearly a better man than me

    I'm a lot more selfish

    4 me it's entertainment,  a get away from real life problems

    all I care about is keeping the game going

    and I'm not confident pushing a 1 and done policy will do that

    I appreciate the concern 4 the kids but

    where do we stop

    do we test movie stars and ban them

    to prevent kids from wanting to look good

    or become movie stars






    So the age old adage of Pitching, defense and timely hitting are the keys to winning...Will be replaced with Pitching, Defense, timely hitting and the best doctors money can buy...



    The San Francisco Chronicle, in a May 3rd 2005 article quoted former Major League pitcher Tom House of the Atlanta Braves as saying that steroids were rampant in the game in the late '60s and throughout the '70s.

    House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron's 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and 'whatever steroid' they could find in order to keep up with the competition.

    "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey', House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."

    House, 58, estimated that six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs,

    "We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed", he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them".

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    BT

    1) Placing an age limit on the use of steriods won't change anything regarding the current dynamics...they're already illigal without a doctors prescription. If you do the math there's millions of teenaged boys today trying to make thier HS teams and playing youth baseball with thousands more playing college ball. So legalizing the use in pro baseball would only serve to drive the use further down the chain and thus the market for ilicit peds would explode...If you add football to the equasion the numbers are staggering...

    I can't go with ''wont change anything''

    while there is no perfect solution

    I do think it keeps the big money from working on the masking of the drugs

    thus making it easier to test / catch  the kids



    2) Clearly MLB the NFL and the NCAA all benefit from and could not exist without the marque athletes. In part due to the moneys they reap from thier respective network tv deals and thier sponsors. So in terms of tougher penalties. It's not the players unions, that I see as the largest stumbling block to tougher penanties for use, it's those that benefit from the players performance that want thier cake and eat it too. MLB had the perfect platform too inact far tougher testing standards and penalties when congress got involved. Under the guise of "cleaning up the game", they negoitaited in the best interest of the bottom line. Make no mistake about it all parties with an interest were invloved in drafting and approving the ammendments to the CBA.

    a lot of interesting stuff there BT

    could not exist without the marque athletes

    I'm thinking the fact that you included the ncaa

    kinda debunks your point

    in other words it doesn't take much to replace yesterdays star



    they negotiated in the best interest of the bottom line.

    I have NP with them doing that....more in a min



    3) Dispelling the myth? How many players that have been busted, proved that their test was a false positive? Braun used the chain of custody defense to wiggle out of his supension and so to did Sherman with the Seahawks.  I'm not a doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to debate whether it's posible or not. What I will say is that I've never read nor heard of any athlete that tested positive in any sport proving his or her test was eroneous. 

    I'm OK with all that BT

     as you know I didn't coin the phrase ''false positive''

     we are just entering the world of hgh testing

    which as far as I know ( granted not very far )

    the results are  not as black & white as past urine /roids test







    My position on performance enhancing drugs is farily simple. They have no place in sport. Those that choose to use are cheating not only the game, but themselves. I don't care if Arod one day finds himself in a wheel chair due to the cause and effect of his abusing steriods. Life's about choices and he's made his bed.

    What I do care about is the implied need to use if you want to compete at the big league level. While many dismiss the larger social issue, fact is that every player currently in the game beggining at the HS level and onto and including all levels of college and professional baseball. The question of use is not if but when do they need to begin to ensure they don't get passed on the depth chart by someone that is. I'll repeat a comment I made earlier and that is by legalizing the use at the big league level. It will drive the use further down the chain and the fact of the matter is that are we as a society really ok with our athletes who are supposed to embody the idea of living healthy, all becoming freaks of nature.

    clearly you have more faith  in what the system can accomplish

    than I do BT

    kinda surprising consider your feelings about the ''drug war''

    no news here

    but U R clearly a better man than me

    I'm a lot more selfish

    4 me it's entertainment,  a get away from real life problems

    all I care about is keeping the game going

    and I'm not confident pushing a 1 and done policy will do that

    I appreciate the concern 4 the kids but

    where do we stop

    do we test movie stars and ban them

    to prevent kids from wanting to look good

    or become movie stars






    So the age old adage of Pitching, defense and timely hitting are the keys to winning...Will be replaced with Pitching, Defense, timely hitting and the best doctors money can buy...



    The San Francisco Chronicle, in a May 3rd 2005 article quoted former Major League pitcher Tom House of the Atlanta Braves as saying that steroids were rampant in the game in the late '60s and throughout the '70s.

    House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron's 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and 'whatever steroid' they could find in order to keep up with the competition.

    "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey', House said. "We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses. That was the '60s when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There's a lot more research and understanding."

    House, 58, estimated that six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormone. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs,

    "We didn't get beat, we got out-milligrammed", he said. "And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them".

     




     

    It would be interesting to find out exactly what House refers to as "steroids".

    I'm very skeptical of House's story.

    The East Germans and Russians were at that same time using steroids in their track athletes undetectable to testing.

    Waldemar Cierpinski of Ploand finished ahead of defending Olympic champion Frank Shorter in 1976 Olympics but much later on it was determined Cierpinski dabbled in steroids.

    Very hard to figure what would have been available to House in the USA either on the black market or elsewhere, no internet to speak of, no labs yet in the USA.

    So just where did Mr. House get his steroids from? The east Germans? The Russians?

    Sounds like a bunch of bs. Amphetamines during the time period yes, steroids no.

    There are two sides to amphetamine use. The euphoric high the first day, the depressed down feeling the 2nd day.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to EnchiladaT's comment:

     

    Ortiz must be innocent, I would bet my entire life savings that he was the "one" player not doping.

     



    This thread has some compelling commentary, and then again ......

     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from makonikyman. Show makonikyman's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to pinstripezac35's comment:

     

    Drugs and Alchohol are poor examples...both are used for recreational purposes...and as such no one is pressured to use them to improve their work performance.

    point taken BT

    but my only point there was  that we do use age limits on such things

     that many consider undesirable behavior

     

    We can trivialize the pressures of the use of steroids at the youth level, but fact is that it is a real concern. We've already seen some of the effects that steroids had on HS and college football players. In the early years when lifting became the norm and bigger, faster, stronger meant that you had to hit the weights and pumping iron alone was replaced with the use of steroids...something that what'd become vogue in the football circles in the late 1960's and into the 70's. Have we now arrived at a place where in the interest of the spector of sport. We're willing to allow athletes to do whatever they want in the interest of bigger faster, stronger...to the point where if you're not inclined to use. You chances of making your HS team become slim....it's not a out the users...it's about those that work hard, eat right and make the most of their god given ability...as a parent of an athlete...one that might well be a legit college player. I'm not looking forward to the day when he and I will be faced with the choice...if it becomes an accepted norm...he won't have that choice if he wants to play..

    didn't mean to sound like I was trivializing anything

    IMO if the adults could use it

    the market for masking agents would shrink

    giving a better chance of catching   the suspected younger users

     

    .

    In the end I am not a strong propent of legalising or condoning the use of Peds at the professional level and think that not only should they continue to work towards purging sport of use. I think that it's is a moral obligation on all sport to stand firm and make the penalty for use so prohibitive if caught you're banned for life...1 strike and you're out.


    2 B honest BT I don't even know if

    there is such a thing as 'a false positive '

    but as long as that myth lives

    I don't see any players union agreeing to a 1 and done

     



    Zac,

     

    A couple of things...

    1) Placing an age limit on the use of steriods won't change anything regarding the current dynamics...they're already illigal without a doctors prescription. If you do the math there's millions of teenaged boys today trying to make thier HS teams and playing youth baseball with thousands more playing college ball. So legalizing the use in pro baseball would only serve to drive the use further down the chain and thus the market for ilicit peds would explode...If you add football to the equasion the numbers are staggering...

    2) Clearly MLB the NFL and the NCAA all benefit from and could not exist without the marque athletes. In part due to the moneys they reap from thier respective network tv deals and thier sponsors. So in terms of tougher penalties. It's not the players unions, that I see as the largest stumbling block to tougher penanties for use, it's those that benefit from the players performance that want thier cake and eat it too. MLB had the perfect platform too inact far tougher testing standards and penalties when congress got involved. Under the guise of "cleaning up the game", they negoitaited in the best interest of the bottom line. Make no mistake about it all parties with an interest were invloved in drafting and approving the ammendments to the CBA.

    3) Dispelling the myth? How many players that have been busted, proved that their test was a false positive? Braun used the chain of custody defense to wiggle out of his supension and so to did Sherman with the Seahawks.  I'm not a doctor or a scientist, so I'm not going to debate whether it's posible or not. What I will say is that I've never read nor heard of any athlete that tested positive in any sport proving his or her test was eroneous.  


    My position on performance enhancing drugs is farily simple. They have no place in sport. Those that choose to use are cheating not only the game, but themselves. I don't care if Arod one day finds himself in a wheel chair due to the cause and effect of his abusing steriods. Life's about choices and he's made his bed.

    What I do care about is the implied need to use if you want to compete at the big league level. While many dismiss the larger social issue, fact is that every player currently in the game beggining at the HS level and onto and including all levels of college and professional baseball. The question of use is not if but when do they need to begin to ensure they don't get passed on the depth chart by someone that is. I'll repeat a comment I made earlier and that is by legalizing the use at the big league level. It will drive the use further down the chain and the fact of the matter is that are we as a society really ok with our athletes who are supposed to embody the idea of living healthy, all becoming freaks of nature.

    So the age old adage of Pitching, defense and timely hitting are the keys to winning...Will be replaced with Pitching, Defense, timely hitting and the best docters money can buy...



    I live in S.florida and am closely involved in amateur baseball with my son at THE VERY highest level. Let me assure you....it is already too late. It is already at the freshman/soph hs level. Forget college...they ALL are using. This...I KNOW

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Piazza admits to taking androstenedione

    I'm glad that Tom House is bringing up roids in the 1970s.

    The 70s were a huge Roid era in weightlifting/bodybuilding.  Why wouldn't that translate to other sports? 

    The East germans, russinas, and Bulgarians were taking roids to win olympic medals.  Why wouldn't that translate to professional sports. 

    It did.  I've ALWAYS thought that Mike Schmidt used roids - his arms were ridiculous - like Giambi.

    Drugs are completely no good for sports.

    But deer antler?  Not a drug.  HGF-1?  Not a drug.  Ephedra?  Not a drug.  If baseball banned multivitamins - would a One-a-Day and Centrum vitamins become PEDs?

    Creatine?  Not a drug - but people freak out about it. 

    I think the list of banned substances should only be drugs

     

     

     
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