Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : While some of what you say has merit, I don't believe Mitre came up through the Yankee system.
    Posted by nhsteven



    He didn't he was with Fla when injured then picked up by the Yankees.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : He didn't he was with the Cubs when injured then picked up by the Yankees.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    And, FWIW, in 2011, the Yankee FS was ranked 4 or 5 (depending on the survey), while the RS was consistenty ranked 14-15. Regardless with those who try to pooh pooh these professional scouting surveys, and while no assessment is perfect, they still are far more reliable than some fan's take.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : And, FWIW, in 2011, the Yankee FS was ranked 4 or 5 (depending on the survey), while the RS was consistenty ranked 15. Regardless with those who try to pooh pooh these professional scouting surveys, they still are far more reliable than some fan's take.
    Posted by nhsteven


    Mitre came up with the Cubs went to Fla then the Yankees. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Weiland is two years older than Betances.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    A year and a half.  This year will be to Betances what 2011 was to Weiland.  Weiland's never been on anybody's top prospect list.  Let's see if Betances can beat a 1.270 WHIP at AAA before we label one as a 'killer b' and the other as 'underperforming garbage'.

    My bad on Mitre.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : A year and a half.  This year will be to Betances what 2011 was to Weiland.  Weiland's never been on anybody's top prospect list.  Let's see if Betances can beat a 1.270 WHIP at AAA before we label one as a 'killer b' and the other as 'underperforming garbage'. My bad on Mitre.
    Posted by slomag


    Betances is not considered a prospect in the mold of Banuelos or Montero.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : And, FWIW, in 2011, the Yankee FS was ranked 4 or 5 (depending on the survey), while the RS was consistenty ranked 14-15. Regardless with those who try to pooh pooh these professional scouting surveys, and while no assessment is perfect, they still are far more reliable than some fan's take.
    Posted by nhsteven


    It's hard to characterize unknown prospects as 'underperforming'.  There was some fanfare surrounding Hansen and Brandon Moss, but beyond that just about every prospect the Sox believed strongly in over the past decade has delivered.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Betances is not considered a prospect in the mold of Banuelos or Montero.
    Posted by nhsteven


    Last year he was - Banuelos was BA #41, and Betances was #43.  This year it's 29 & 63.

     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    Thanks for the page Zac - I would not have wanted to miss the chance to annihilate the meanderings of the feeble-minded. paging WilcyMoore paging WilcyMoore you scored some points slomag as did WM defending against your mantra of  past posts about nyy kids always being over hyped & never having value BTW "" jeter needs to rebound '' LMAO
    Posted by pinstripezac

    My mantra is more that BA and other scouts cannot be trusted when it comes to the top ranked Yankee prospects.  I think they are being manipulated by outside forces.  I do recognize that the Yankees have had some nice lesser-touted prospects, like Gardner, Nova and Robertson, rise through the ranks recently.

    If anything WilcyMoore supports my mantra - Tabata and Jackson were #27 and #36 respectively.  They're still young, but neither is even above-average.  When Tabata was ranked #27 in 2007, he was sandwiched between Ryan Braun and Adam Jones.   Jackson was sandwiched between Yonder Alonso and Elvis Andrus.  Karstens and Clippard were never considered top 100, and Kennedy is the lone exception where the Yankee top prospect seems to be living up to his hype.  And all of this ignores the biggest offenders in Hughes and Chamberlain who were every bit as hyped as Jesus Montero at #4 and #3 in 2007 & 08 respectively, and have never even come close to delivering on that promise.  I am willing to discount Chamberlain because of injuries, but when you put it all together it's a pattern that's hard to ignore.


     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : It's hard to characterize unknown prospects as 'underperforming'.  There was some fanfare surrounding Hansen and Brandon Moss, but beyond that just about every prospect the Sox believed strongly in over the past decade has delivered.
    Posted by slomag

    For the most part, I don't see how this response is applicable. And, I don't completely agree with your last sentence: What about Lars Anderson, Tazawa, Chris Carpenter (OFer), Bowden, Miller, & the OFer with great promise who got sick? Also, Lowrie, Reddick, Doubront, Wieland, Rizzo, Fuentes, and even the highly regarded Lavarnway & former super prospect Buchholz (admittedly, with a great 2010 MLB season under his belt) have something to prove this yr. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : A year and a half.  This year will be to Betances what 2011 was to Weiland.  Weiland's never been on anybody's top prospect list.  Let's see if Betances can beat a 1.270 WHIP at AAA before we label one as a 'killer b' and the other as 'underperforming garbage'. My bad on Mitre.
    Posted by slomag


    Betances was signed at age 18 had TJ surgery in late 2009 came back in 2010, didn't pitch too badly in 2011 control issues but a nasty repetriore particularly his curve.

    I expect Betances to be at AAA for the 2012 season we'll see what he's done at the years end.

    Manny B the better of the two and a lefty I think just turned 20 another pitcher the Yankees (they say) will spend the year at SWB AAA. Clearly rated #1 in the Yankee system.

    Under performing garbage? Not an objective opinion for a young guy with limited MLB experience.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Betances was signed at age 18 had TJ surgery in late 2009 came back in 2010, didn't pitch too badly in 2011 control issues but a nasty repetriore particularly his curve. I expect Betances to be at AAA for the 2012 season we'll see what he's done at the years end. Manny B the better of the two and a lefty I think just turned 20 another pitcher the Yankees (they say) will spend the year at SWB AAA. Clearly rated #1 in the Yankee system. Under performing garbage? Not an objective opinion for a young guy with limited MLB experience.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    Its still only ST but the Yanks could be the 2012 version of last years Red Sox if this continues. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : My mantra is more that BA and other scouts cannot be trusted when it comes to the top ranked Yankee prospects.  I think they are being manipulated by outside forces.  I do recognize that the Yankees have had some nice lesser-touted prospects, like Gardner, Nova and Robertson, rise through the ranks recently. If anything WilcyMoore supports my mantra - Tabata and Jackson were #27 and #36 respectively.  They're still young, but neither is even above-average.  When Tabata was ranked #27 in 2007, he was sandwiched between Ryan Braun and Adam Jones.   Jackson was sandwiched between Yonder Alonso and Elvis Andrus.  Karstens and Clippard were never considered top 100, and Kennedy is the lone exception where the Yankee top prospect seems to be living up to his hype.  And all of this ignores the biggest offenders in Hughes and Chamberlain who were every bit as hyped as Jesus Montero at #4 and #3 in 2007 & 08 respectively, and have never even come close to delivering on that promise.  I am willing to discount Chamberlain because of injuries, but when you put it all together it's a pattern that's hard to ignore.
    Posted by slomag


    Cano and Chien Ming Wang came up through the Yankee system virtually unknown because they were not hyped, not nearly as much as Pedroia or Ellsbury.




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

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    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Its still only ST but the Yanks could be the 2012 version of last years Red Sox if this continues. 
    Posted by craze4sox



    How so?

    I don't recall the Red Sox last season with the pitching depth at the farm level that the Yankees currently have either to promote or trade and why the Sox after losing Lackey and Dice finished 3rd.

    Btw the pitching with the loss of Paps out of the pen, Dice-K, Lackey hurting not what it was last season at this time.

    The Yankees had injuries last season too but still won 97 games with Colon and Garcia in the rotation.

    Don't forget they were without Rodriquez and Chavez for most of the season with Nunez filling in. Nunez hit .357 while jeter was on the DL.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : For the most part, I don't see how this response is applicable. And, I don't completely agree with your last sentence: What about Lars Anderson, Tazawa, Chris Carpenter (OFer), Bowden, Miller, & the OFer with great promise who got sick? Also, Lowrie, Reddick, Doubront, Wieland, Rizzo, Fuentes, and even the highly regarded Lavarnway & former super prospect Buchholz have something to prove this yr. 
    Posted by nhsteven


    Let's leave Westmoreland out of the equation - we'll probably never know how good he could have been, but I don't think anybody with a soul would ever characerize him as underperforming.

    Anderson had a terrific spring - he has not lived up to his hype yet, but I'd wait until the end of the year before making a final judgement.  

    Miller was never a Sox prospect - they acquired him after several other teams gave up on him.  I don't recall Chris Carpenter - was he a top prospect?  You won't find Doubrount, Weiland, Fuentes or Lavarnway (prior to this year) on anybody's top prospects list.  Lowrie was as high as #73, which, injuries aside, is about what he has delivered.  

    Reddick's 109 OPS+ in 2011 is a promising start, and the A's thought enough of him to trade an all-star closer.

    Tazawa is coming off tommy-john surgery, so he hasn't played enough games to evaluate fairly, but this year should be telling.

    Did I miss anybody?

     
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    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : How so? I don't recall the Red Sox last season with the pitching depth at the farm level that the currently have either to promote or trade and why they finished 3rd. Btw the pitching with the loss of Paps out of the pen, Dice-K, Lackey hurting not what it was last season at this time. The Yankees had injuries last season too but still won 97 games with Colon and Garcia in the rotation. Don't forget they were without Rodriquez and Chavez for most of the season with Nunez filling in. Nunez hit .357 while jeter was on the DL.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    I was referring to injuries to the staff mostly.  Depth at the minor league level is great unless they pitch like Weiland did for us.  The Yanks and Sox usually find a way to hang around but you don't want to rely on a youngster from the farm unless its absolutely necessary. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Let's leave Westmoreland out of the equation - we'll probably never know how good he could have been, but I don't think anybody with a soul would ever characerize him as underperforming. Anderson had a terrific spring - he has not lived up to his hype yet, but I'd wait until the end of the year before making a final judgement.   Miller was never a Sox prospect - they acquired him after several other teams gave up on him.  I don't recall Chris Carpenter - was he a top prospect?  You won't find Doubrount, Weiland, Fuentes or Lavarnway (prior to this year) on anybody's top prospects list.  Lowrie was as high as #73, which, injuries aside, is about what he has delivered.   Reddick's 109 OPS+ in 2011 is a promising start, and the A's thought enough of him to trade an all-star closer. Tazawa is coming off tommy-john surgery, so he hasn't played enough games to evaluate fairly, but this year should be telling. Did I miss anybody?
    Posted by slomag

    My bad on Miller (I thought he was reacquired), Carpenter (never a top prospect) and Westmoreland. However, I thought the criteria was a prospect the Sox strongly believed in, not the Scouting Rankings; make up your mind.

     
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    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

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    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Its still only ST but the Yanks could be the 2012 version of last years Red Sox if this continues.  Posted by craze4sox
    Only if they get lucky.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : Cano and Chien Ming Wang came up through the Yankee system virtually unknown because they were not hyped, not nearly as much as Pedroia or Ellsbury.
    Posted by ThatWasMe


    That supports my mantra - I'm not saying that the Yankees prospects are all cr*p, just that the most heralded among them have failed to fulfill their promise.  I only have BA data dating back to 2004.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : That supports my mantra - I'm not saying that the Yankees prospects are all cr*p, just that the most heralded among them have failed to fulfill their promise.  I only have BA data dating back to 2004.
    Posted by slomag


    Actually the Yankee farm system has been in the dumper for quite awhile.

    George let it go to hell opting for free agents.

    It has since come back after the responsibility to run it was given to Cashman and Damon Oppenheim about 5 years ago.

    And could explain the dearth of talent until recently.

    Mike Lowell was pretty highly touted but moved by george when he signed Scott Brosious. Thats how George ran things.

    The Yankees best position players are down at A ball but there is pitching depth at all levels.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from ThatWasMe. Show ThatWasMe's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : That supports my mantra - I'm not saying that the Yankees prospects are all cr*p, just that the most heralded among them have failed to fulfill their promise.  I only have BA data dating back to 2004.
    Posted by slomag



    Hopefully the one that was way overhyped was Melancon.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa:
    In Response to Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa : My mantra is more that BA and other scouts cannot be trusted when it comes to the top ranked Yankee prospects.  I think they are being manipulated by outside forces.  I do recognize that the Yankees have had some nice lesser-touted prospects, like Gardner, Nova and Robertson, rise through the ranks recently. If anything WilcyMoore supports my mantra - Tabata and Jackson were #27 and #36 respectively.  They're still young, but neither is even above-average.  When Tabata was ranked #27 in 2007, he was sandwiched between Ryan Braun and Adam Jones.   Jackson was sandwiched between Yonder Alonso and Elvis Andrus.  Karstens and Clippard were never considered top 100, and Kennedy is the lone exception where the Yankee top prospect seems to be living up to his hype.  And all of this ignores the biggest offenders in Hughes and Chamberlain who were every bit as hyped as Jesus Montero at #4 and #3 in 2007 & 08 respectively, and have never even come close to delivering on that promise.  I am willing to discount Chamberlain because of injuries, but when you put it all together it's a pattern that's hard to ignore.
    Posted by slomag


    This post is a joke

    You forgot Cano.

    Karstens was PIttsbugh’s best SP last yr (3.38 ERA)

    Tabata has a lifetime .284 BA after 2 seasons and over 700 ABs.

    Clippard has had not 1, like you claim, but 3 consecutive good seasons (and counting); he is considered one of baseball’s best setup men

    Austin Jax is considered one of baseball’s best CFers, and bats leadoff for the favored Detroit Tigers. The Granderson trade didn't look too good after 2010.

    Hughes was a key factor in the ’09 championship, and despite the 2nd half meltdown in 2010 (and afterwards), won 18Gs, was on the AST, and was baseball’s best pitcher the 1st 2 months of that season. This season is a big one for him.

    Chamberlain was otherworldly as a rookie, and, despite losing his killer slider afterwards due to injuries, has still been a key contributor. However, my guess is he’ll be out of baseball in a few yrs.

    Robertson (1.08 ERA, 100 Ks in 66.2 IP for 2011) is just nice?

    Melancon & Aceves were not mentioned either; now the RS have them, of course.

    The jury is still out on Nunez.

    Your homerish take on the Scouting Analyses network is hilarious, and your credibility IMO has taken a hit.

     
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  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa

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    In response to "Re: Pineda booed off mound in Tampa": Only if they get lucky.
    Posted by small-package


    This type of banter might work well in a schoolyard of 7 yr olds.
     
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