Pitching acquisition ideas.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    Chris Young, in a report last May:  He has missed significant time due to shoulder issues in each of the last four seasons.

    I'd sign him to a minor league deal, but at 32 years old, he has had 40 innings pitched in the last two years, and then a shoulder operation to fix a capsule tear.  You cannot pencil him in to be a possible 5th starter, replacement for Bard in the pen.

    Oh, and my bad on Chiang.  He is still listed on Soxprospects.com as being a Sox prospect.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chain-reaction. Show chain-reaction's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    Chris Young, in a report last May:  He has missed significant time due to shoulder issues in each of the last four seasons. I'd sign him to a minor league deal, but at 32 years old, he has had 40 innings pitched in the last two years, and then a shoulder operation to fix a capsule tear.  You cannot pencil him in to be a possible 5th starter, replacement for Bard in the pen. Oh, and my bad on Chiang.  He is still listed on Soxprospects.com as being a Sox prospect. Posted by parhunter1
    Yf
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    Sox don't have the budget or the prospects.  But they have a great arm in Bard.  Making him the closer is a no-brainer.  All closers get their first Big League Save with ZERO Experience..........I believe this is how Rivera, Eckersley and Quisenbery all got their starts, no???? Posted by andrewmitch
    Yup, making Bard the closer is a "no brainer." Unless you've been living in a cave for 2 months, you'd be aware that Bard WANTS an opportunity to start, he's going to be GIVEN every opportunity to start and rightfully so. Why would the Sox EVER "make" a guy a closer who's never done it for a significant period of time before?! Here's a novel thought...how 'bout we let some guys compete for the closer role in Spring Training? Even better, let's see if they make any more moves in the next MONTH or so before Spring Training starts?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": Yup, making Bard the closer is a "no brainer." Unless you've been living in a cave for 2 months, you'd be aware that Bard WANTS an opportunity to start, he's going to be GIVEN every opportunity to start and rightfully so. Why would the Sox EVER "make" a guy a closer who's never done it for a significant period of time before?! Here's a novel thought...how 'bout we let some guys compete for the closer role in Spring Training? Even better, let's see if they make any more moves in the next MONTH or so before Spring Training starts? Posted by jasko2248
    Wasn't Paplbon a starter his entire minor league career and "made" a relief pitcher once Foulke lost it?
     
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    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": Wasn't Paplbon a starter his entire minor league career and "made" a relief pitcher once Foulke lost it? Posted by rkarp
    Nope...players actually have a say where they would like to play once they have some success in the Majors...Paps was a closer in college but converted to starter when drafted...he came up to Boston as a starter, but he's the one who suggested he could close when Foulk went down...he was successful, yet Sox still wanted to stretch him out the following spring, until HE convinced them he wanted to close...
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": There are serious concerns about Beltran being able to play right at Fenway as well. Not a guy Id want on a multi year deal or someone I want to go over the luxury tax for....
    Posted by jasko2248


    I agree with you on that and of course it is now a moot point as far as Beltran goes.  The Sox are saddled with Youk's last year (although the club has an expensive option for another year) who will spend about 40 games on the DL next year and the one thing the Sox don't need is another aging star that can't perform or that rents a house on DL Lane beside their pitching staff.  The Sox need to somehow get younger and healthier...not older and slower.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": Nope...players actually have a say where they would like to play once they have some success in the Majors...Paps was a closer in college but converted to starter when drafted...he came up to Boston as a starter, but he's the one who suggested he could close when Foulk went down...he was successful, yet Sox still wanted to stretch him out the following spring, until HE convinced them he wanted to close... Posted by jasko2248
    But the point is Pap was a starting pitcher his entire minor league career and even his first year with the Sox. ( 3 games started) Paps first relief appearance was his first as a professional Point being a great closer can come from the unlikeliest of places.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": But the point is Pap was a starting pitcher his entire minor league career and even his first year with the Sox. ( 3 games started) Paps first relief appearance was his first as a professional Point being a great closer can come from the unlikeliest of places. Posted by rkarp
    Exactly...which is why you don't "make" a guy a closer who wants to start. Andrewmitch doesn't have a clue, yet posts in absolutes, so I harp on him a bit. Every year, it seems at least 5 new guys emerge as closers and at least 5 "closers" blow up. My point is that let's see how the off-season plays out before we "make" someone a closer...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    there is one starter left who is likely available and makes alot of sense for the sox. His name is matt garza. according to mlbtr the cubs are planning a complete rebuild. Garza has pitched in the AL east and woul provide the sox with a solid top 4. He is the sox best option as of right now. Trading for garza and bailey would make the sox a lot better and younger. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    there is one starter left who is likely available and makes alot of sense for the sox. His name is matt garza. according to mlbtr the cubs are planning a complete rebuild. Garza has pitched in the AL east and woul provide the sox with a solid top 4. He is the sox best option as of right now. Trading for garza and bailey would make the sox a lot better and younger.  Posted by redsoxpride34
    If the Sox don't have the prospects to land Latos, Cahill or Gio, how do they have the prospects to land Garza?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    Good God, are you suggesting the Sox offer the same package for League (one year of arbitration left, only one good full season, up and down production overall, some injury history) as Bailey (three arbitration years to go, extremely good production, some injury history)? Plus, have you watched League? He's quite a bit rough on the eyes. I could not handle having him come in to pressure situations through 162+ games. At the right trade cost, Harrison is a perfect suggestion for a target. He should eat innings, he's still young, we'd have him for years (three, to be exact), his best year was last year, and he could always get better. BUT...trading Youkilis for him is a no-go. We need Aviles for an all-around utility role, and he's not a full-time player anyway...you don't take one of the most productive hitters in the AL out of the league's best run-scoring lineup.
    Posted by redsoxu571


    Great post I agree 100%
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaBlade. Show DaBlade's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    Sox don't have the budget or the prospects.  But they have a great arm in Bard.  Making him the closer is a no-brainer.  All closers get their first Big League Save with ZERO Experience..........I believe this is how Rivera, Eckersley and Quisenbery all got their starts, no????
    Posted by andrewmitch


    Difference is the guys you mentioned wanted to become closers... Bard does not and even said Heaven Forbid to the notion of remaining in the bullpen.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": If the Sox don't have the prospects to land Latos, Cahill or Gio, how do they have the prospects to land Garza? Posted by rkarp
    Apparently, we have the prospects to land Garza AND Bailey, AND it will make us younger. We won't see any homegrown talent arrive in Boston until 2016, but we'll be "younger." Although Theo might not have any knowledge about our farm system, so we might be able to send him our "overhyped" prospects.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": If the Sox don't have the prospects to land Latos, Cahill or Gio, how do they have the prospects to land Garza?
    Posted by rkarp


    it wasnt that the sox didnt have the prospects to land those guys, its that they were not willing to give up them up. the difference between the sox and other teams is that the other teams understand that if they want to acquire good players they have to give up good prospects. the nationals wanted gio and they gave up the prospects to get him. the reds wanted latos and they gave up a bunch of good prospects to get him. yet the sox seem to think that unless they get a player at a discount price, they decide that the player is not worth it. it happens every time. think about how many players the sox have been in on and how many they have actually landed especially via trades. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    He might want to start just for the bigger payday.

    I recall Paps wanting to start just before the made him the closer. I could be wrong, but I remember it that way. After they made him the closer, he said all the right things. He had to at that age.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas. : it wasnt that the sox didnt have the prospects to land those guys, its that they were not willing to give up them up. the difference between the sox and other teams is that the other teams understand that if they want to acquire good players they have to give up good prospects. the nationals wanted gio and they gave up the prospects to get him. the reds wanted latos and they gave up a bunch of good prospects to get him. yet the sox seem to think that unless they get a player at a discount price, they decide that the player is not worth it. it happens every time. think about how many players the sox have been in on and how many they have actually landed especially via trades.  Posted by redsoxpride34
    This front office has never hesitated to trade prospects for top talent (Schilling, Beckett, Agon), but they might be a little skeptical of trading top prospects for a guy who led the league in walks. Read some other posts, learn a little bit, then try to post something that has some factual basis and doesnt sound like youre Debbie Downer...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    Keeping Bard and Aceves n the pen would be ideal.  You simply cannot replace Papelbon, Bard and Aceves with Melancon and Jenks and think its going to work.

    I'd like to see the Sox offer a package of Scutaro, Middlebrooks, and another (Oscar Tejada?) for Jair Jurrjens.

    I have very little faith in Middlebrooks.  Yes, I know he is an athletic, solid defensive 3B with good power who is overly aggressive at the plate.  To me, that means there is a good chacnce he can turn into the next Kevin Kouzmanoff.   (Although to be fair, Kouzmanoff was a much better hitter in the minors.)

    Atlanta has no SS, and there is very little step down from Scutaro to Aviles.  There really isn't.  Scutaro is a little bit better of a hitter, but Aviles is a better defensive player.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": This front office has never hesitated to trade prospects for top talent (Schilling, Beckett, Agon), but they might be a little skeptical of trading top prospects for a guy who led the league in walks. Read some other posts, learn a little bit, then try to post something that has some factual basis and doesnt sound like youre Debbie Downer...
    Posted by jasko2248


    how have they never hesistated to trade top prospects for top talent? roy halladay, john santana, gio gonzalez, hunter pence(who would have been a perfect fit for right field), matt holliday, are all guys the sox passed on in trades. Thats just a few of the many. Not to mention all the guys they have lost out on in free agency because they have refused to pay what the guys are actuall worth. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas. : how have they never hesistated to trade top prospects for top talent? roy halladay, john santana, gio gonzalez, hunter pence(who would have been a perfect fit for right field), matt holliday, are all guys the sox passed on in trades. Thats just a few of the many. Not to mention all the guys they have lost out on in free agency because they have refused to pay what the guys are actuall worth. 
    Posted by redsoxpride34


    So are you assuming that becuase the Sox did not get them, the Sox passed?

    It seems to me the Sox had offers out there for plenty of those players, including two options for Santana.  Do we know the Sox never offered anything for Pence?  We do know they did not have any prospect package that could match what the Phillies got him for.

    In many of those cases, it wan't so much the Sox not offering as it was the other team taking a different, better offer.

    And what does free agency have to do with willingness to trade top prospects?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas. : how have they never hesistated to trade top prospects for top talent? roy halladay, john santana, gio gonzalez, hunter pence(who would have been a perfect fit for right field), matt holliday, are all guys the sox passed on in trades. Thats just a few of the many. Not to mention all the guys they have lost out on in free agency because they have refused to pay what the guys are actuall worth.  Posted by redsoxpride34
    Hmmm...Toronto wasn't trading Halladay within the division, thank god John Farrell put his job on the line and blocked the Santana trade (would still be Killing us), you know nothing about Gio Gonzalez and Philly had a better package to offer for Pence. Holliday was a free agent...seriously, read some posts, blogs, newspapers, google some stats, better yet, watch some games with an objective point of view...then try to make a post that makes some sense...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": Apparently, we have the prospects to land Garza AND Bailey, AND it will make us younger. We won't see any homegrown talent arrive in Boston until 2016, but we'll be "younger." Although Theo might not have any knowledge about our farm system, so we might be able to send him our "overhyped" prospects.
    Posted by jasko2248

    Who are these Red Sox prospects who could land Matt Garza or Andrew Bailey?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.":
    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas. : Who are these Red Sox prospects who could land Matt Garza or Andrew Bailey? Posted by hill55
    Exactly...read my post again, Hill...I was referencing someone else's post who said we need to trade for both...I was being facetious...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter1. Show parhunter1's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    Keeping Bard and Aceves n the pen would be ideal.  You simply cannot replace Papelbon, Bard and Aceves with Melancon and Jenks and think its going to work. I'd like to see the Sox offer a package of Scutaro, Middlebrooks, and another (Oscar Tejada?) for Jair Jurrjens. I have very little faith in Middlebrooks.  Yes, I know he is an athletic, solid defensive 3B with good power who is overly aggressive at the plate.  To me, that means there is a good chacnce he can turn into the next Kevin Kouzmanoff.   (Although to be fair, Kouzmanoff was a much better hitter in the minors.) Atlanta has no SS, and there is very little step down from Scutaro to Aviles.  There really isn't.  Scutaro is a little bit better of a hitter, but Aviles is a better defensive player.
    Posted by notin


    But if the Sox land Madson or trade for Bailey or League, then you have come close:  Madson, Melancon and Jenks might be just as good as Papelbon, Bard and Aceves were, especially down the stretch when Pap was checked out and blew the season in two blown saves, and Bard lost his mechanics and had a rather lengthy stretch of ineffectiveness.

    Aceves is the hard one to replace, because of the role he played and how well he pitched in it.  But it is also a mistake to assume he will pitch just as well next year if given that role again.  Most relievers cannot repeat their effectiveness year after year.  And Aceves has no track record of doing that.  Let's not forget that he was a non-tender just a season ago.  And the team that gave up on him is not some poorly run team that non-tenders players they are afraid might end up being too costly to keep.  The Yankees let him go for a reason (or reasons).  The fact that he wants to be a starter might affect his attitude and performance next year if he is not given the chance to convert.  The same could be said of Bard, especially if he is returned to the set-up role.  This isn't fantasy baseball.  These are real men, playing a boys game.  They have real feelings and egos.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from andrewmitch. Show andrewmitch's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    In response to "Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.": Yup, making Bard the closer is a "no brainer." Unless you've been living in a cave for 2 months, you'd be aware that Bard WANTS an opportunity to start, he's going to be GIVEN every opportunity to start and rightfully so. Why would the Sox EVER "make" a guy a closer who's never done it for a significant period of time before?! Here's a novel thought...how 'bout we let some guys compete for the closer role in Spring Training? Even better, let's see if they make any more moves in the next MONTH or so before Spring Training starts?
    Posted by jasko2248


    A cave huh?  Good one.

    I guess guys like Rivera, Eckersley and Reardon are guys you have never heard of in your cave?  All starters converted into closers.  This is the way it is usaully done.  Question:  how many saves did all of these guys have before being converted to closers?  Hello????

    Also, in your little cave I guess you never saw Bard's ERA as a minor league STARTER?  Helloooo?  There was a reason why he was converted to a reliever:  he was a horrible starting pitching in the minors.

    Now, could he become a decent starter?  Maybe.  I don't put great odds on it. 

    But again, why trade prospects or spend an extra 8 million on a position we can most likely fill from in-house.  Or, we can use your idea and allow some no-names to compete for the closers role in Spring Training.  Very "novel' indeed.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.

    In Response to Re: Pitching acquisition ideas.:
    I like the idea of having League in the pen but I don't like the idea of giving Youk up for him I would replace him with some mid level prospects like Doubront, Tejada, Vitek, and Coyle or a high prospect like Bogaerts and a mid level group of Tejada and Vitek.
    Posted by bbenton87

    I hate to say I'd give up Youk for League but I would. If the Mariners don't sign Prince, Youk would be a great fit for 1 b. I would then ask for the same deal they have been advertising for Figgins; at least 1/2 of Figgins salary.
    The Sox get League, to shore up the pen, and Figgins, to plant at third.
    League would be part of an  ever growing strong bullpen.
    This might require a couple of prospects--maybe Iggy and an "A" pitcher.

     
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