pitching decisions

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from udontnojack. Show udontnojack's posts

    pitching decisions

    is the goal to save the staff for the future or win games now.this ain't little league.if they aren't trying to win every game,then coma,young theo should be gone.
    young says they took out buccholz because he was at 330 pitches for 3 games,but he looked fine.pitching to cabrera,who's the hottest hitter in baseball.walk him and have lefty hill pitch to lefty choo.does coma ever pay attention to any of this.we already have the consensus on saturdays terrible moves.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BOSOX1941. Show BOSOX1941's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to pitching decisions:
    is the goal to save the staff for the future or win games now.this ain't little league.if they aren't trying to win every game,then coma,young theo should be gone. young says they took out buccholz because he was at 330 pitches for 3 games,but he looked fine.pitching to cabrera,who's the hottest hitter in baseball.walk him and have lefty hill pitch to lefty choo.does coma ever pay attention to any of this.we already have the consensus on saturdays terrible moves.
    Posted by udontnojack

    What you and I don't seem to realize is that 330 is his limit for 3 games in a row. If he had been allowed to finish the inning, he would absolutely not be able to pitch competitively when he's in his early 30s????????? It's hard to understand baseball as Francona sees it. In his mind, securing a win in a game in May isn't as important as a game in Sept. Removing his starter, when he did, is acceptable to his fans. It's not the loss that counts, it's the potential win when Buch is scheduled to pitch on Sept 3rd, thats more important than winning last night's game.
    I wonder how it affected Buch's confidence?
    Bottom line is as clear now as it was when Francona was in Philly and as clear as it has been since he arrived here. He is one of, if not the poorest handlers of a pitching staff in the major leagues. He is a managerial moron. He is a managerial buffoon.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MikeNagy. Show MikeNagy's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Buchholz threw 127 pitches in his last start, the most of any starter in a game so far this year.

    Tito doesn't play for one game. You have to think about the long haul.

    It was reasonable to expect Bard to do his job, which is the eighth inning. You guys were probably complaining the other day when Albers fell apart and Bard wasn't brought in.

    Try being pleased this team is where it is after their miserable start, even though that was Tito's fault the offense wasn't clicking back then.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    And had Buch been allowed to stay in the game and he gave up the go ahead run, Tito would be criticized for not pitching Bard.

    Right, Tito is clueless.  They started the season 2-10 and are now a game from the division lead.  They are 14-7 for the month of May - that's a .667 winning percentage.  He's just terrible.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-yazzer. Show the-yazzer's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    udontnojack and bosox1941,

    you're both correct in labeling TITO  a lousy field manager.
    his managing prowess off the field is excellent; keeping everyone happy, talking to the press, following THEO'S orders.
    it's only during tight games where TITO has to make the best decision is where he fails miserably.
    unfortunately, most of the posters on this board believe both TITO and THEO are doing wonderful jobs.
    in other words, most can't see the FOREST because of the TREES.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    There are times when the focus is on the long term and there are times when the focus is on the short term.

    To get them out of their losing streak, the focus was on the short term win.  Now that they are winning, the focus shifts to winning the most games over the course of the season.

    When you've lost 3 in a row, use your starter longer and bring in your closer earlier even if he pitched the night before  When you've won 3 in a row, cut back on the starter's pitch count and don't use the closer.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Girardi-Inept. Show Girardi-Inept's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Girardi is much worse.

    Girardi chose to issue two intentional walks to get to the bottom of the Toronto Blue Jays' lineup in the sixth, but No. 8 hitter J.P. Arencibia capped a five-run inning with a three-run double that helped Toronto beat New York 7-3.

    "I went out there and told him what I wanted to do, and he said whatever you want to do is all right with me," Girardi said of his conversation with starter Bartolo Colon. "We've got a groundball pitcher on the mound. The next three guys are 0 for 6 with four strikeouts. We took a shot and it didn't work."

    Colon first intentionally walked Jose Bautista after Corey Patterson led off the sixth with a double. After cleanup hitter Yunel Escobar sacrificed to put runners on second and third, Colon intentionally walked Juan Rivera to load the bases.

    To that point, the only run Colon had given up was a homer to Bautista in the first inning. But the walks appeared to take the burly right-hander out of this rhythm.

    Aaron Hill followed Rivera's walk with an RBI single. Eric Thames walked on four pitches for another run and Arencibia, who struck out in his first two at-bats, cleared the bases with a double.

    "With Juan Rivera, I told the manager I'd do whatever the manager wanted to do," Colon said.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    udontnojack and bosox1941, you're both correct in labeling TITO  a lousy field manager. his managing prowess off the field is excellent; keeping everyone happy, talking to the press, following THEO'S orders. it's only during tight games where TITO has to make the best decision is where he fails miserably. unfortunately, most of the posters on this board believe both TITO and THEO are doing wonderful jobs. in other words, most can't see the FOREST because of the TREES.
    Posted by the-yazzer

    And THIS is based on your YEARS of experience in the GAME?


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Full disclosure: I would have left Buchholz in to close the 8th if he could. There's no guarantee he would have gotten those two outs, of course, but he was looking good and his pitch count was low. And that runner wouldn't have been on second had Pedey not gotten hurt. That's what I, a fan watching at home, would have done.

    That said ... Francona did virtually the same thing Sunday night against the Cubs. He lifted Wakefield, who was just as effective as Buchholz, for Bard with two outs in the 7th. It worked perfectly: Bard got four outs on 22 pitches, and Papelbon closed it out.

    Bottom line: The only reason for the bitching today is because Bard didn't do his job last night.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-yazzer. Show the-yazzer's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    hey lloyd,

    i thought a CLASH fan would be smarter and not drink all the TITO kool-aid.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    Full disclosure: I would have left Buchholz in to close the 8th if he could. There's no guarantee he would have gotten those two outs, of course, but he was looking good and his pitch count was low. And that runner wouldn't have been on second had Pedey not gotten hurt. That's what I, a fan watching at home, would have done. That said ... Francona did virtually the same thing Sunday night against the Cubs. He lifted Wakefield, who was just as effective as Buchholz, for Bard with two outs in the 7th. It worked perfectly: Bard got four outs on 22 pitches, and Papelbon closed it out. Bottom line: The only reason for the bitching today is because Bard didn't do his job last night.
    Posted by LloydDobler


    I agree.

    I understand the need to moniter the pitcher's work, but I have a bit of a problem with using 330 for three games as a magic number. If he was pitching smoothly, maybe you use a range. See if he can get out of the inning or let him got a batter or two longer if he keeps getting outs.

    That said, Bard's job is to come and get the two outs. And the morons who put Francona on an island like he's the only one who uses pitchers like this. It was Curt Young's program of 330 pitches for three games. He's doing the same thing he did in Oakland. The bashers need to take their heads out of .... (fill in the blank) and pay attention to the game.

    For the millionths time. This is how the game is managed today. All teams, while limits may vary, use pitch counts and innings to moniter their pitchers. Occasionally a pitcher might be extended like Buch the other game, but they'll make up for it in other games.

    Like one poster mentioned on another thread, and I apologize that I don't remember who posted it. The Rangers, despite Nolan Ryan's talk about extending pitchers, led the majors in bullpen innings.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    udontnojack and bosox1941, you're both correct in labeling TITO  a lousy field manager. his managing prowess off the field is excellent; keeping everyone happy, talking to the press, following THEO'S orders. it's only during tight games where TITO has to make the best decision is where he fails miserably. unfortunately, most of the posters on this board believe both TITO and THEO are doing wonderful jobs. in other words, most can't see the FOREST because of the TREES.
    Posted by the-yazzer


    right.  only you select few who deliver the same generalized bash over and over (with the exception of the very specific 20/20 hindsight picthing change criticsm) see the light when it comes to Francona.  riiiggghhht.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    hey lloyd, i thought a CLASH fan would be smarter and not drink all the TITO kool-aid.
    Posted by the-yazzer

    We Clash fans are the brightest of the bright. Even those of us still lost in the supermarket!
    I don't drink Kool-Aid ... far too sweet. But Tito has won two World Series championships for a franchise that had gone 86 years without one, so I do have a high degree of appreciation for him.
    Is he perfect? Hell no. Neither is whoever you'd like to see replace him.
     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    Does anyone understand what managing a pitching staff entails? It's more than making a desicion based on the score of a game and or the inning...Starting pitchers have a routine to insure they have thier best stuff every 5 days and bullpen guys are managed based on the number of times and pitches they throw each day or game. The intent is to have them maintain arm stregnth over the duration of a season. Tired legs and arms lead to lack of command and poor mechanics that can lead to injuries...while it ain't rocket science it does require some planning and foresight...the pitching coach is the guy that monitors the staff and relays his recommendations to the manager on who's available and or who needs a day to recoup...if a guy throws 20 pitches in a game, he'll likely be availble the next day, 30 or more then typically they'll get a day off...that's why you often see guys pitch two games in a row then take a day off... As was the case last year, our middle relief is the issue...Bard is being over exposed early on due to not having another relaible option to bridge the gap between the starter and the closer...once Wheeler and Jenks return and hopefully both pitch to thier ability, it'll give Francona more options in the middle innings and hopefully save some bullets for the starters and Bard-Papelbon, the latter recently pitched in a non-save situation against the Cubs which is not ideal use of his bullets but Francona didn't have another viable option...
    Posted by Beantowne

    While I agree with most of what you said, you should know that Wheeler is already back.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Lloyd, It wouldnt matter if they got who they would want managing, theyd beat the same dead horse with a different name like they do now.. Funny thing is, when asked who they would want to manage (and its been asked to them 100's of times), a realistic choice, All I hear are crickets...All whining and not 1 suggestion for a solution..yeah, thy know what their talking about..when it come to kneejerk, emotional reactions, the bandwagon fans are the best..
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    Again Im not going to knock anybody who likes the pitch count. Just one thing is for sure, you better have a good Bullpen, to hold and saves leads. I like to ask the posters here: How many complete games will be pitched this year by our starters? More than 10?
    Posted by bobbysu


    Last year only 2 teams threw more than 10 complete games (Philly and Seattle).  In 2009 only 1 team threw more than 10 CG's (San Francisco).  In 2008 only 2 teams threw more than 10 CG's (Toronto and Milwaukee).  The pitchers largely responsible for these totals are Lincecum, King Felix, Halladay (twice) and CC Sabathia.

    Bullpens are a vital piece of every team around MLB, it is not a Red Sox specific issue.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Also the Sox were 5th in MLB in CG's in 2009 (with 8), although they only had 3 last year.  I think 4-5 CG's this year sounds about right, even with the issues at the back end of the rotation.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    Also the Sox were 5th in MLB in CG's in 2009 (with 8), although they only had 3 last year.  I think 4-5 CG's this year sounds about right, even with the issues at the back end of the rotation.
    Posted by JB-3


     Between Buch, Lester and Beckett, 4-6 sound about right JB..There are just not that many CG's anymore. Bullpens are a vital part of a team these days. Unfortunatly, besides the closer, its mostly a crapshoot from year to year.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dehud. Show dehud's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Why couldn't the Red Sox have developed Masterson? Why did they bury him somewhere in the collection of relievers, not a closer; not even a set-up man?  Are they really bringing out the best in Bard? It doesn't seem so to me.  
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-yazzer. Show the-yazzer's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    spaceman,

    bill lee has the IQ of a genius; perhaps you should change your moniker.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    Didn't Masterson struggle after he left the Red Sox and only got it together late last year?  Lefties are batting 302 against him this year.  He's got a career era of 4.05.

    Bard has a career ERA of 2.65.  And even though he had a rough outing last night, opponents are batting .159 against for the month of May.

    Masterson had his slider working against lefties last night.  That doesn't happen too often for him.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from the-yazzer. Show the-yazzer's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    "masterson had his slider working against lefties last night. that doesn't happen too often for him."

    maybe that speaks  more about our lefty batters than it does about masterson.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    In Response to Re: pitching decisions:
    Lloyd, It wouldnt matter if they got who they would want managing, theyd beat the same dead horse with a different name like they do now.. Funny thing is, when asked who they would want to manage (and its been asked to them 100's of times), a realistic choice, All I hear are crickets...All whining and not 1 suggestion for a solution..yeah, thy know what their talking about..when it come to kneejerk, emotional reactions, the bandwagon fans are the best..
    Posted by southpaw777

    Yep ... absolutely right.
    Yup. You know what else? Had Tito stuck with Buchholz, and had Clay given up a two-run dinger to give up the lead, these same people would be blasting "Coma" for not seeing that Buch was tired and going with Bard after he was so effective the night before.
    Damned if do, damned if don't.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from YAZZER. Show YAZZER's posts

    Re: pitching decisions

    usually, you're only damned when you agree with TITO.

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share