Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    EDIT: Sorry about the double post...
    IF the Sox are going to continue on the path of playoff hopes, then they need only focus on one thing...Yup, you guessed it...PITCHING...
    Tonights game proved that with good consistant pitching this team could have a few more wins than they have in low scoring games when the starter gives you 7-8 solid innings, not 5-6...As far as I can see, this team has one reliable pitcher, Buchholz...Everyone else has obvious question marks...Lester and Beckett? We all know about them...Doubront? Has had a few shaky starts in a row and will probably not last all year and into October...Cook? Has bee pretty good, but pretty good doesnt win championships...
    As far as this year goes, Im not sure we can do much without selling off a lot of prospects...Next year we can think about Morales and Tazawa as starters, but like i said, unless we can get another 1 or even 2 quality starters OR Lester and Beckett do a 180, its going to be hard to win a championship, let alone get into the playoffs without 3 solid starters...Thoughts???
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ampoule. Show ampoule's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching



    I agree that pitching is essential for success.

    Having some experience as a pitcher, I feel that rest between starts is important.  A sinker-baller would probably do well, but to a power thrower, a fresh arm is essential.

    What I question is the opposition to a 6-person rotation.  I personally feel that a pitcher's opposition to it is either based on ego or BS(Beckett, a example).

    I'm curious to hear your feelings about this.  I felt that with a fresh arm, if I controlled the adrenaline, I'd have a better outing. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In response to "Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching":
    I agree that pitching is essential for success. Having some experience as a pitcher, I feel that rest between starts is important.  A sinker-baller would probably do well, but to a power thrower, a fresh arm is essential. What I question is the opposition to a 6-person rotation.  I personally feel that a pitcher's opposition to it is either based on ego or BS(Beckett, a example). I'm curious to hear your feelings about this.  I felt that with a fresh arm, if I controlled the adrenaline, I'd have a better outing.  Posted by ampoule
    A 6 man rotation would mean less starts for Beck and Lester. Good idea!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    Excluding rentals, who's out there that actually help this team turn around right now?  I love to see JJ in Sox uni but it seems unlikely now that Marlins are asking too much.  King Felix is untouchable. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JimfromFlorida. Show JimfromFlorida's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    Yes good pitching is essential but so is consistentcy in all phases of the game.

    The Rays have proved consistency in all phases with good pitching & defense that you can win with adequate hitting and great speed.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    I agree pitching is key, but I'm not sure a trade will work because good starters are very expensive.  My prediction is the Sox will try to make do with the guys they have. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from JN86. Show JN86's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    Pitching is important and good pitching is crucial but you must have hitting.  There is no way you can expect that a pitcher will go all year only letting in 1 or 2 runs every game he pitches.  You have 5 SP - no way will you be able to have all 5 pitching every game only giving up a 1 or 2.  No team has that.  You must be able to HIT!  The Sox seem unable to do that on a consistent basis.  Teams that are in first place are winning the 5-4, 6-5 games... they are scoring the runs they need to win the games.  We are NOT!  The Sox will have a game where they gets 8 or 9 runs and then nothing for another 5 games.  In the last 4 or so games - the Sox have not scored over 3 runs.  You can't win with NO HITTING.  Great pitching is very important - but so is great offense.  You have to have both.  Great pitching can only get you so far - you must balance it off with good consistent hitting.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from xXR3S1NXx. Show xXR3S1NXx's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    I agree pitching is key, but I'm not sure a trade will work because good starters are very expensive.  My prediction is the Sox will try to make do with the guys they have. 
    Posted by maxbialystock


    I guess, things cant get much worse than they already are. I say just get every available starter you can(without giving up a whole lot) and see what sticks. Cant be much worse than what we have now.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    A great offense is needed as well, I agree...We have the bats that can do it, but Im not so sure anymore if we have enough arms that can be trusted to do it...There has to be some moves if this team wants to compete...We will see what BC and this FO is all about in the next week...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    Also agree you gotta have the hitting.  But the Sox weakness right now is the rotation. 
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    EDIT: Sorry about the double post... IF the Sox are going to continue on the path of playoff hopes, then they need only focus on one thing...Yup, you guessed it...PITCHING... Tonights game proved that with good consistant pitching this team could have a few more wins than they have in low scoring games when the starter gives you 7-8 solid innings, not 5-6...As far as I can see, this team has one reliable pitcher, Buchholz...Everyone else has obvious question marks...Lester and Beckett? We all know about them...Doubront? Has had a few shaky starts in a row and will probably not last all year and into October...Cook? Has bee pretty good, but pretty good doesnt win championships... As far as this year goes, Im not sure we can do much without selling off a lot of prospects...Next year we can think about Morales and Tazawa as starters, but like i said, unless we can get another 1 or even 2 quality starters OR Lester and Beckett do a 180, its going to be hard to win a championship, let alone get into the playoffs without 3 solid starters...Thoughts???
    Posted by southpaw777

    Thank you for your thoughts on this. I agree with you.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    I agree that pitching is essential for success. Having some experience as a pitcher, I feel that rest between starts is important.  A sinker-baller would probably do well, but to a power thrower, a fresh arm is essential. What I question is the opposition to a 6-person rotation.  I personally feel that a pitcher's opposition to it is either based on ego or BS(Beckett, a example). I'm curious to hear your feelings about this.  I felt that with a fresh arm, if I controlled the adrenaline, I'd have a better outing. 
    Posted by ampoule

    Sounds good to me.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtDawgSox. Show DirtDawgSox's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    Excluding rentals, who's out there that actually help this team turn around right now?  I love to see JJ in Sox uni but it seems unlikely now that Marlins are asking too much.  King Felix is untouchable. 
    Posted by seannybboi

    There is no one out there that the Sox can afford. Yesterday, with the trading of Lillibridge, the Sox did get two pitchers..minor leaguers
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    Why can Boston make this weekly rotation like this?

    Bucholz, Doubront, Beckett, Lester, Cook, Bucholtz, Doubront, Morales, Beckett, Lester, Bucholz, Doubront, Cook, Morales, Beckett, Bucholtz, Doubront, Lester, Cook, Morales, etc......

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    I agree that pitching is essential for success. Having some experience as a pitcher, I feel that rest between starts is important.  A sinker-baller would probably do well, but to a power thrower, a fresh arm is essential. What I question is the opposition to a 6-person rotation.  I personally feel that a pitcher's opposition to it is either based on ego or BS(Beckett, a example). I'm curious to hear your feelings about this.  I felt that with a fresh arm, if I controlled the adrenaline, I'd have a better outing. 
    Posted by ampoule


    amps, this is your post of the year. I questioned taking Morales out of the rotation the moment it happened. I said if it's working at 6-men, then why fiddle with it? So that 2 of the 6 who are struggling a bit get LESS REST between starts? How does that improve two struggling pitchers? It doesn't. And I too also pitched and still do, and it doesn't matter if you are Recreational, College, Pro, or any league---the more rest you get between starts, the fresher you are. It's not even for debate.  Ask Jim Lonborg if he needed an extra day or 2 before Game 7, 1967 WS. Ask Tiant after the 163 pitch game, if he needed more rest before Game 6, 1975. This is a brittle league of pitchers and in this day and age of specialization, it boggles the mind that you don't try even 7-man rotations if it helps your team win. I'd rather have 7 guys who can throw 25 starts a piece, but be rested than have 8 relievers who have to come in during the 6th inning of games because your SPs can only last 100 pitches and that's usually when a lot of these guys hit that mark. Maybe 7 is stretching it, but 6 is a very good number for today's MLB---and the fact remains the Sox were playing their best winning baseball during the 6-man rotation. Fact!
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    See, this is my point...Its going to be almost impossible to get 2 more starters without giving up everything of worth on the farm...This team is in a tough position...If Lester and Beckett dont turn things around NOW, not to sound negative, but the reality is another season with no playoffs...We NEED these 2 guys to pitch like they are capable of...starting TONIGHT...Or find ourselves another top of the rotation starter...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    I repeat: Beckett, Lester, and Buch have NEVER HAD FULL & HEALTHY SEASONS AT THE SAME TIME... N E V E R !!!

    Expecting it to happen this year was our biggest mistake. Even as well as Morales and Cook have done in limited fill-in duty, it hasn"t been enough.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    I repeat: Beckett, Lester, and Buch have NEVER HAD FULL & HEALTHY SEASONS AT THE SAME TIME... N E V E R !!! Expecting it to happen this year was our biggest mistake. Even as well as Morales and Cook have done in limited fill-in duty, it hasn"t been enough.
    Posted by moonslav59


    We've been better off when Beckett and Lester arent pitching.  Expecting them to stay healthy wasnt the mistake.  Expecting them to pitch well was.

    I didnt see this coming either, but when the sox are something like 8-100 in games that Beckett and Lester started, the problem is not on Beckett and LEster staying healthy.

    We need an ace.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching : We've been better off when Beckett and Lester arent  pitching.  Expecting them to stay healthy wasnt the mistake.  Expecting them to pitch well was. I didnt see this coming either, but when the sox are something like 8-100 in games that Beckett and Lester started, the problem is not on Beckett and LEster staying healthy. We need an ace.
    Posted by Drewski5


    Expecting them to pitch well was a mistake?  Last year Beckett's ERA was under 3.  Over the last four seasons Lester has started at least 30 games each year, never had a season ERA over 3.47, and never had a season WHIP over 1.26, and you think the FO should have dumped Lester because it was obvious he was through. 

    Yes, they are both pitching lousy.  No, this wasn't predictable. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching:
    In Response to Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching : Expecting them to pitch well was a mistake?  Last year Beckett's ERA was under 3.  Over the last four seasons Lester has started at least 30 games each year, never had a season ERA over 3.47, and never had a season WHIP over 1.26, and you think the FO should have dumped Lester because it was obvious he was through.  Yes, they are both pitching lousy.  No, this wasn't predictable. 
    Posted by maxbialystock


    Agreed.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Pitching, Pitching, Pitching

    Lester and Beckett. Both guys are underperforming and while Beckett has been a little more consistent--his game results are flat out terrible. Lester simply has gone from shut-down pitcher to Mark Portugal in 0.5 seconds. But the reasons why they are the way they are seem to be linked a bit to last year's collapse. Both are losing velocity, that's clear. Beckett has mostly been good with command, but can't seem to hold a small lead or has a bad inning (usually the first) that foils any good in his starts--more so of late than during the stretch when the team was doing quite well--Beckett was pitching well in that stretch. Anyway you slice the Yaz bread, the two guys were expected, were predicted to be 1-2 on the staff and were supposed to be--based on salary and past performance--the two guys you most rely on in the rotation. Instead, they have become the LAST two guys you want to see on the mound in any game. In effect, they are killing the Sox start by start. And they were the reason also that Morales was pulled from the rotation because there was a fear of the 6-man rotation. Because of the nature of the Sox offense (granted due to many injuries), the two can't even throw simply quality starts to be effective, they have to throw 7 IP, 1 ER type games...And they haven't and I don't see them turning it around anytime soon. It's either you fire McClure/Niemann and bring in a fresh pitching coach, or you look for a chance to trade them away.
     
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