Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from rkarp. Show rkarp's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    No Bowden would not be/was not as ready as Wake.  Bowden has been converted to a reliever on a permanent basis and as such isn't anywhere near as stretched out as Wake.  Additionally, Wake doesn't need to be as stretched out due to the less taxing nature of the knuckleball.
    As an aside, I'm glad I saw this post.  You were driving me crazy earlier in the season when talking about Doubront and I forgot who the poster had been.  It's D-O-U-B-R-O-N-T.  There's no "A" and there's just the one "D".  I have no idea how you got from his name to that.
    As for who I'd rather have in the rotation, I'd go with the hot hand.  We have plenty of time to find out who that is between Wake and Aceves.  Personally, I'm pulling for Aceves with an eye to the future, buy the pitcher who gives us the best chance to win should be the starter.

    My comment regarding Bowden was meant more as a reference for the season in its entirety, not the one start. I would rather have had Francona have Bowden available as needed, rather than afraid to put Wake into a tight game.
    I will spell Doubrandt correctly once he gets into shape. Bad sign that his injuries are conditioning related. Signs of Roger Moret!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    wake was awesome last nite...i felt he couldve thrown 18 innings and the Cubs wouldve still been clueless...which is probably why one shouldnt gloat - it was a nice combo of an opponent that never sees Wake, a cold nite with a fluttering pitch not dragged down by humidity/heat, and Wake's perfect command...

    dont expect that again but who cares...he has to win just .500 of his starts and let the other pitchers do their thing

    sadly however i dont think he will get that ingrates record that is my avatar
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from mjdkid100. Show mjdkid100's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    Every Sox fan loves Wakefield. The guy has been a great teammate and personality in the city. He has a ton of respect.

    His pitching is inconsistent. Bottom Line.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from trouts. Show trouts's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

     I've ripped on Wakefield in the past but I've got to admit that last night's game was a gem. What also amazed me was Tito's quick hook in the 7th. Usually he leaves the guy in for 6 to 7 runs and 10 or 11 hits. That was a super win!
     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    In Response to Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you. : The rub is there was no way within the rules to get him there. You are right that leaving Fort Meyers the best 25 man roster would have had Wakefield and Reyes in Pawtucket and Hill and Aceves in Boston. But Tim Wakefield with only $1.5M guaranteed would never clear waivers to be designated for assignment. So he sat on the 25 man roster as an odd fit as a reliever because of the quirks his knuckleball can create (stolen bases, passed balls. It really left him as a low leverage pitcher and worse yet for Wake, low leverage situations were being used by the manager to sort out the bottom of his BP to see who might be a keeper and who might be Denys Reyes. But as is often the case Epstein knew what he was doing with his 25 man roster because it did not take 2 months of baseball for the RS to need a 6th and 7th starter. In between the serial posters who either demand Wakefield be dispatched by any means necessary and those who think he should be a fixture in any RS rotation the reality is he is nice luxury to have. And as bottom of the rotation guys go he is highly effective even if some of his games are painfuldue to stolen bases, passed balls and hung knucklers sent into interplanetary orbit.
    Posted by fivekatz[/QUOTE]


    You can say the same for Lackey or Dice. They too can be painful to watch.
    The difference is in the check book.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    2 wild pitches is not "a gem". I want to see Wake take the ball every 5 days, because it will mean he'll break down for the final time and be off the roster. No way the guy makes it more than a few more starts, and the AL shellings will continue.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from don444. Show don444's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    What happens when he loses? What will you post for us then?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from playball01. Show playball01's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    In Response to Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.:
    [QUOTE]2 wild pitches is not "a gem". I want to see Wake take the ball every 5 days, because it will mean he'll break down for the final time and be off the roster. No way the guy makes it more than a few more starts, and the AL shellings will continue.
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    Red Sox Fan?  NOT HARDLY

    Carnival Monkey?  YEP!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    Why isnt AGon in San Diego, selling tickets?

    What is Crawford's BA and OBP? 20M for Mendoza BA and OBP lowering than the hated Lugo. Go give him a pep talk and chip in some of your welfare money.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from mdmcn28. Show mdmcn28's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    If I see one more post that Wake is inconsistent or that he has one good game followed by a bad one, I think I'm going to scream.  You must have been living under a rock or wearing blinders to come up with such selective amnesia. 

    Wake is Streaky, which is the nature of a knuckleballer.  There is a big difference. Streaky runs hot and cold in bunches. Whch describes Wake, since the knuckleball can be really on or really off for extended periods.  Its also the reason his game can go south in an instant unlike other pitcher where you have some warning.

    Wake always deserves credit because he lives and dies with his best pitch, just ask Zint how rough it can be to make a career out of that pitch.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    It's all in the eyes of the beholder...Matt Albers had the inning from hell the other night, 2 hits, then 2 walks, then a double, but he throws conventionally, so there is no other option for Tito...well, in his mind. Wakefield throws 75 pitches and he's got the entire forces in the pen waiting and ready to go...why? well, in his mind, he has to be ready to get Wake off the hill before "he loses it" quick. But Albers lost it pretty quick, no? And how many times have we seen Lackey and Dice-K and even Lester lose it quick...It happens, but they all are conventional velocity, curve, slider pitchers, so it's ok for non-cerebral fans or non-students of the game to figure out that Wakefield is no different than any other starting pitcher or reliever. Except the Sox have turned him into this freakshow luxury, No. 6 starter, but must mopup releiver when they have 5 healthy starters...Yet, here's a guy who started every game he pitched for Sox between 2003-2009. Here's a guy who has had 17, 18 game win seasons. Here's a guy who when he is actually throwing consistently as a starter, is maybe the top 2 or 3 No. 5 starters in all of baseball. But he throws a knuckleball and when he gets hit, sure he gets hit hard. I watched Curt Schilling at the end of his career after '04, how many times did you see him have 5 great innings, then home run, home run, triple, and then Tito had to pull him....It happens to the greats, it happens to the young, it happens to everyone (maybe not Halladay or Lee), but Wakefield gets the brunt of the mis-information that is spread here. All you have to do is look at his career starts, his excellent WHIP, in actuality his low walk ratio, and you'll see a guy who is more effective than a wiffleball pitcher. He's a heckuva talent and the Sox and their fans should really be appreciative that he's around to save the Sox sorry arses every year when things are going poorly.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    "He's a heckuva a talent" ? What!
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    In Response to Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you. : You can say the same for Lackey or Dice. They too can be painful to watch. The difference is in the check book.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]The part you missed highlighting is the distinction. The passed balls/wild pitches and the stolen bases. It is a very helpless feeling to watch guys run around the bases at will. It is very unique to knuckleball and happens more with Tim than it did with some of the other great knucklball pitchers because he can get more dance than most ever did.

    It certainly is a downside to Wake's game. He is a nightmare to catch and every runner that gets on is more terrifying than it is even with guys with crummy moves to first and a slow delivery.

    I have always thought this is why a guy who wins 52% of his decisions, has played for the RS longer than any player in years and did so at a discount so he could be here had so many detractors and that was long before his back injury too. It isn't the stat sheet, its the style points IMO.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    Of course it's the style points! But what his detractors fail to acknowledge is why he can remain in the Majors this long if there isn't something about him that off-sets all the negatives. When he has it going, the bases stay lonely. He works quickly. He screws up hitter's timing.

    In short, he's a living mockery - making some of the games best hitters look silly.
    As a fan, I love watching him do it.

    I started a thread a couple of years back called: Tim Wakefield: An historical perspective. In it, he was compared to other HOF knuckle-ballers. When you adjust for era and venue, you'd be amazed how favorably he compares.

    For example, 4 times he's won 16-17 games. Compare the number of his starts in those years to that of his contemporaries 30-40 years ago. Had he pitched in a 4-man rotation in the pre-steroid/pre-hitter era, those are all 20-win seasons.

    I'm willing to bet he's had as many clean innings as many of the games better pitchers.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    When you adjust for era and venue, you'd be amazed

    There is nothing amazing about a fat man with an ERA over 5 since the last half of 2009, and one who sits on the de facto or actual DL for the last half of 2009, all of 2010 and most of 2011 to date. 

    Passed balls, hitters going to first on strike 3, runners going to home after a walk, and balls being hammered into the seats by teams used to seeing the goofball. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    Another example of the clown not having a clue:

    1) Wake's BB/9 has been at 2.3 and 2.4 for 2010 and 2011, a full run below his career average.
         His 2.3 BB/9 ratein 2010 led the team (pitchers with over 16 IP) and was about 1 walk less than any other starter on the Sox, exept for Lester (3.0). His BB rate was a full BB or more below any reliever in 2010.
         His BB rate this year beats all starters, most by 2-3/9 IP. It beas all relivers, except Paps.

    2) His HR/9 rate has been 1.2 for 2010 and 2011. This is exactly at his career average. His HR rate is ahead of Lester, tied with Buch and Aceves, and within .2 of Leckey, Dice, and Bard.

    Stick to ERA.
         His HR/9 rate was better than Beckett, Okajima, MDC, Atchison, and RamRam in 2010.

    3)
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    Where's the sample size?  I'm waiting.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from msts-1. Show msts-1's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    I don't owe any athlete an apology. They are paid per performance. Wakefield is a fan favorite of many and others hate him.  To both sides I would say that he ate innings in today's baseball world (200 innings/season) and his career numbers are 194-173, 21 games over .500 with an ERA of 4.38. If you transpose his numbers to a 162 game season, he's 13-11, 4.38 and 201 innings pitched. He is no more than a four/five starter and a good one who saves your bullpen. He is nothing more but also nothing less but I do think he is at the end of his career and we in Boston do tend to romanticize our heroes and cling to them past their shelf life.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    you know what, now i do think the thread starter has a point....apologize to Wakefield and Wakefield's fans for being morons. fivekatz, ask Salty he "enjoys" catching him. He is not a "nightmare." When the Sox desperately tried to get back Mirabelli, that was the Sox panic mode. Wakefield didn't phone the front office and say, "I need Dougie back." Varitek has caught Tim, and not very well, but others have caught him quite well going back to Mike Stanley, and Kevin Cash and others. The base stealing? Gee, let's see Papelbon gives up steals every time he hits the hill. How many times have guys taken the steal on the predictable Dice-K? Wakefield also used to use the slidestep and was quite effective holding runners on. But as harness and moon have tried so hard to explain, I wll explain in all caps...WAKEFIELD FREQUENTLY, MORE THAN ANY OTHER STARTER, HAS QUICK, EASY INNINGS THAT SPEED UP GAMES, KEEP FANS INVOLVED, AND GIVES THE SOX OFFENSE TIME TO SCORE RUNS...Lackey and Dice-K don't have the amount of easy innings that Wakefield has strung together because they aren't consistent pitchers, or certainly not more consistent than Wakefield himself. So ask about your issues or make up stories about how Wakefield is a liability, blah, blah, blah, blah...Meanwhile, I'm glad he starts Friday.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    msts-1, that's been Tim's role for a long time...5th or 4th starter...something most of these haters don't seem to understand that his effectiveness, if anything, is right on target for a 4th or 5th starter. Everyone wants Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee or Jon Lester, or Jon's most of last year. It doesn't happen unless you are a premier starter...that type of consistent, 80 percent effective, super quality starts (as opposed to John Lackey's MLB standard under-quality starts).
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    as for streaks, he's pitched more consistent streaks of good starts in other years than even his 2009 All-Star run...In the other years, people saw his record and then made a judgment call. For years, Wakefield led the staff in least runs scored for by his team. It cost him countless wins. 0-0 ties, where he gives up a run or two in the sixth or seventh..That was an MO one year for Tim. If anything Felix Hernandez 13 win Cy Young should tell everyone that your win-loss record is over-rated.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    Didn't Lackey lead the Sox in quality starts last year? Most fans are aware that once Wakefield loses his stuff that it is abrupt and dramatic. A high school player can hit out a HR on a knuckler that does nothing. The hook has to be more ready and faster when Wake is pitching.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from medvegasguy. Show medvegasguy's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    What's there to apologize about?  He has had 9 winning seasons for the Sox and 7 seasons with losing records.  He is basically a hit or miss, .500 pitcher.  His W/L record is not something I would want for starting pitcher.  He is a stopgap measure, who sometimes comes up big.  I would rather see more consistency.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Please apologize louder so Mr. Wakefield can hear you.

    once again, another moron points out wins v. losses...Exhibit A on killing that myth...King Felix 13 wins, Cy Young...d'uhhhhhhhhhhhh winning means nothing.
     

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