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Please, no more Japanese pitchers
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Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 5:21 PM EDT
- J-BAY
- Posts: 14606
- First: 4/8/2009
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Agreed. It's enough to bring a player over from the NL to the AL.
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Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 5:40 PM EDT
- J-BAY
- Posts: 14606
- First: 4/8/2009
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slomag the problem with that is, you're going to throw good money after bad just for the rights of possible potential. there are relocation expenses, interpretors and culture shock. okijima admitted last year he was homesick and i'm not sure how happy dice k ever was here. i question if it's their arms are overworked, the level of play isn't comparable or a cultural difference within the game. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 5:57 PM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34488
- First: 9/27/2005
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Please, no more racist threads. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 6:11 PM EDT
- small-package
- Posts: 160
- First: 6/3/2011
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China is the new future. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 7:18 PM EDT
- dannycater
- Posts: 10023
- First: 4/12/2005
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actually Dice-K was 4th in Cy Young voting in 2007...but hey he didn't help them win the WS did he? Oh, that's right, you only need non-Japs to pitch well. Of course, Okajima tried to give away the '07 series, but he helped pitch them there too...Next up, how bout no more fat Latino pitchers or no more white Texans? -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 7:24 PM EDT
- jrh1194
- Posts: 808
- First: 10/20/2010
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In Response to Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers:In Response to Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers : If Dice-K's Red Sox career is over today, Fangraphs values its total at $44M. That's only $7M less than his salary, with 40% of his MLB career lost to injuries. Posted by slomag
You would also need to figure in the posting fee that the Sox paid to his former team. His cost to the Sox is substantially more than his Fangraphs value that you mention. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 7:49 PM EDT
- sgtnull
- Posts: 90
- First: 4/9/2011
- Last: 6/27/2011
but Oki and Dice-K did help us win a World Series, right? -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 8:25 PM EDT
- hill55
- Posts: 7692
- First: 1/14/2006
- Last: 5/23/2013
Threads such as this one give Boston fans a bad reputation ... fairly or unfairly. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/3/2011 8:30 PM EDT
- georom4
- Posts: 7398
- First: 4/9/2009
- Last: 5/22/2013
or white shortstops...
or black QB's
or hispanic hot-headed coaches...etc etc etc
thanks for making us all a little dumber for being sox fans -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 4:46 AM EDT
- SoxSoldRed
- Posts: 526
- First: 5/11/2011
- Last: 6/7/2011
Please, no more John Slackey's and Carl Crawbusts. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 5:56 AM EDT
- SonicsMonksLyresVicars
- Posts: 2017
- First: 3/25/2011
- Last: 5/22/2013
...and keep them gays and martians out too. Especially gay martians....they just don't have the stomach for earthbound ball games. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 8:00 AM EDT
- southpaw777
- Posts: 8228
- First: 4/2/2011
- Last: 5/22/2013
I didnt see this as a racist post..Just someone who is frustrated, because within a couple days we have major issues with both of our Japanese pitchers..People cry racist way too quick..maybe THAT is the embarrassing part..For a country thats so de-sensitized, everybody sure is pretty sensitive...back to the main point..I think Dice-K could've had a much smoother stay in Boston if he wasn't such a pig-headed pitcher. never wanted to do ANYTHING the Sox (his employer) asked him to do. HE was the one that messed up his arm not conforming to the USA way of playing ball and doing the proper workout regiment, thats on Dice, not the Sox IMO..And Oki isnt on the roster because there have been better options than him.. Its about the team, right? But no, lets call the Sox racists...idiots... -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 8:48 AM EDT
- Hetchinspete
- Posts: 1730
- First: 6/17/2008
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Southpaw,
I fully agree. The thread is posted not in a racist vein of thought but from a business point of view, and common sense. From the monies spent, with cultural differences and all isit worth drafting players from Japan. I find the people objecting to this this posting the ones crying foul, thier posts that may be objectionable.
Hetchinspete -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 8:50 AM EDT
- moonslav59
- Posts: 34488
- First: 9/27/2005
- Last: 5/23/2013
There clearly are several posters on this site that are racists. They don't even try to hide it. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 8:58 AM EDT
- JimfromFlorida
- Posts: 5330
- First: 5/30/2008
- Last: 5/22/2013
Gee based on this they shouldn't draft any college player since only 10% are stars in MLB.
Dumb thread -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 9:39 AM EDT
- J-BAY
- Posts: 14606
- First: 4/8/2009
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In Response to Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers:Southpaw, I fully agree. The thread is posted not in a racist vein of thought but from a business point of view, and common sense. From the monies spent, with cultural differences and all isit worth drafting players from Japan. I find the people objecting to this this posting the ones crying foul, thier posts that may be objectionable. Hetchinspete
Posted by Hetchinspete
thats how I took it also and the manner in which i posted. Dice k's contract involved more than the posting fee and salary...included relocation, a housing allowance, 8 first class RT tickets to japan and more. my point was about the return for the investment.....why do these threads have to turn into something they werent meant to be? -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 9:49 AM EDT
- pinstripezac32
- Posts: 1326
- First: 2/4/2011
- Last: 4/29/2012
I didnt see this as a racist post..
I agree southpaw777
HE was the one that messed up his arm not conforming to the USA way of playing ball and doing the proper workout regiment, thats on Dice, not the Sox IMO.
not sure if that's fair
while it's clearly an issue
there are plenty of sore arms that did things the usa way
personally i have to wonder what if they didn't try to change him
so much other than the six off days stuff
IMO his biggest problem was the impossible task of living up to the hype
followed by mlb batters being much more disciplined at the plate
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Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 10:24 AM EDT
- djcbuffum
- Posts: 1352
- First: 11/4/2007
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Any time you make a blanket statement based on race or ethnicity -- e.g. "don't draft any more Japanese players -- you are making a judgment based on race. The category that deinfes the players included in the proposed boycott is defined solely by race. Since we take as a presumption that race is not absolutly related to athletic ability (not *un*related, but also not *absolutly* related), then we concludeany baseball advice based on the race of the player is null in value.Now actually, that should be qualified. What the writer might have meant was "don't draft any pitchers developed by the Japanese baseball leagues." That's different because, in theory at least, some non-Japanese pitchers could be included in the group. The defining category is what baseball league developed the player, and there are baseball-related reasons for such a category. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 10:37 AM EDT
- pinstripezac32
- Posts: 1326
- First: 2/4/2011
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What the writer might have meant was "don't draft any pitchers developed by the Japanese baseball leagues." That's different because, in theory at least, some non-Japanese pitchers could be included in the group. The defining category is what baseball league developed the player, and there are baseball-related reasons for such a category.
I'm thinking that's what he meant
and shame on anyone who took it differently
the poster talked about
''between the posting fees, the contractual commitments and the training and cultural divide,''
said nothing about slanted eyes or to much rice -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 10:41 AM EDT
- dannycater
- Posts: 10023
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I'm often very much thrown into a race relations argument when it comes to reverse racism, which has occurred in my neck of the woods (too much Roker).
No, the thread starter, did not have "racist" on his mind when he wrote his post. He is frustrated that some of the Japanese pitchers (Korean too) have not worked out pleasantly for the Sox. But I'm with jimmy buffumet, he put a blanket statement in a headline, and if you classify people based on race, in this manner, you are a racist. Embrace your racism, don't pretend. But remember this is exactly how Hitler started. He broke things down based on race. I think you know how horrible that turned out. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 10:51 AM EDT
- southpaw777
- Posts: 8228
- First: 4/2/2011
- Last: 5/22/2013
In Response to Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers:I didnt see this as a racist post.. I agree southpaw777 HE was the one that messed up his arm not conforming to the USA way of playing ball and doing the proper workout regiment, thats on Dice, not the Sox IMO. not sure if that's fair while it's clearly an issue there are plenty of sore arms that did things the usa way personally i have to wonder what if they didn't try to change him so much other than the six off days stuff IMO his biggest problem was the impossible task of living up to the hype followed by mlb batters being much more disciplined at the plate
Posted by pinstripezac32
Thats was pretty much the basis for my statement.. 5 man rotations mean throwing more games and pitches, thus having to adjust all the throwing he did when not pitching. Dice-K's arm was used a ton already and I believe the Sox knew that. I also believe that Dice NEEDED to change his throwing habits so he could last for his 6 year contract length..He didnt, and now this is the result..As far as living up to the hype..Boras is the agent HE chose to hire..Im sure Dice-K and Boras knew what they were doing when it came to the hype machine.. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 12:41 PM EDT
- greatestNYY
- Posts: 816
- First: 9/16/2010
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In Response to Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchersThis remark is racist, what about Lackey he pitches just as good as Dice-K... hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 12:56 PM EDT
- ZILLAGOD
- Posts: 10387
- First: 5/30/2008
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Well , clearly the problem is not that he is Japanese.
If he was good , we'd all love him....well most of us anyway....provided he didn't use PEDs or shove a travelling secretary. then it wouldn't matter.
Pedro was good and was not white. So most of us loved him.
There are people who are rascist and there always will be.
But if Daisuke wasn't so disappointing he would be a hero, like Pedro.
The problem is he stunk more often than he did not stink.
But , if you stink as a white man , like J.D.Drew does, you get a lot less attention for stinking out the joint.
Being lousy and being non-white is a double whammy.
It's unfortunate , but it is true. -
Re: Please, no more Japanese pitchers
posted at 6/4/2011 1:13 PM EDT
- tom-uk
- Posts: 1902
- First: 8/13/2010
- Last: 5/20/2013
, I suspect they more than made back the $50M posting fee in merchandising, broadcast negotiations with MLB, vacation packages, etc. , it's hard to see him as a bust from either a baseball or business perspective.
Posted by slomag[/QUOTE]
March 2, 2007 ESPN Advertisers in Japan and the U.S. ride the wave of the success of Ichiro and others, but MLB teams don't benefit as much as one might think . All of Matsui's and Iguchi's games are televised in Japan, but that TV revenue doesn't go directly to the Yankees and White Sox. It goes into a pool of money that is distributed to all 30 major league teams, as will the revenue generated from when Matsuzaka's games are televised in Japan. The Red Sox will generate some revenue by marketing Matsuzaka, but mostly, said an MLB source, it will be through signage, "and probably won't result in a significant number. ''