Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    bottom line: his dad said he made a bad decision. end of story.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from pinstripezac32. Show pinstripezac32's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    bottom line: his dad said he made a bad decision. end of story.
    Posted by Hammah29r2


    that just about covers it hammah

    but as lou meroni likes to point out

    these guys are human too

    if he couldn't clear his head in time

    he couldn't clear his head in time
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hammah29r2. Show Hammah29r2's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th? : that just about covers it hammah but as lou meroni likes to point out these guys are human too if he couldn't clear his head in time he couldn't clear his head in time
    Posted by pinstripezac32


    Hi zac,
    I hear ya bro. and lou is spot on. however, and I happen to like Jorge, it might have been better for him if he had simply called his dad and had a talk with him. I'm not saying before yesterday but maybe a week ago or so. I also thought it was really classy of big papi to speak out and back his friend up on this. imagine, a red sox player friends with a yankee player? OMG! who'd of thought!Wink
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from J-BAY. Show J-BAY's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    zac i think that's over simplifying it. I find it hard to believe posada couldn't play. i think he didnt want to play.....batting 9th. Girardi claims he didn't even ask Posada why he "couldn't go", which doesn't ring true to me. Cashman was summoned and tried to convince Posada to play and he refused, which lead to the war of words between them. Francona had to do it with Lowell and Veritek. Players need to realize when they aren't what they once were, the managers need to do whats best for the organization that employs them all.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Posada looks like a chump who takes his ball and goes home rather than bat where he is told and play through his slump.  You know the difference between batting 8th and batting 9th?  The 8th place hitter is more likely to get more at-bats in the game.  And if you PH for your DH, you lose him for the rest of the game.

    What does Posada do?  He turns his back on his team and has his wife fight with his boss via Twitter.  It's hard to imagine a worse solution.

    As for Girardi, he is making the right move in the lineup, but if you have a guy capable of catching, and you are not even keeping him prepared to catch - that's just idiotic.  Russell Martin has not exactly been an iron man in recent years - why would you not want to keep Posada catching bullpen sessions, just in case he or Cervelli get injured?  I don't know if it's a respect problem in Girardi's end, but the fact that in the article he refers to 5-time All Star and 9 time Gold Glover Andruw Jones as 'the other guy' might be a peak into the man's character.



     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    The guy makes 13 million and is hitting a buck fifty.  He should do exactly what his manager tells him to do.

    When was the last time a guy with a .150 average refused to play?  LOL 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    This is the dumbest "story" so far this year in MLB.  For 15 years this guy has been nothing but professional, period.  Now this?  Please.  Slow news day for sure.  I'm not saying he's thrilled with Cashman or even Girardi, but this is just an asinine story. Media should leave him alone, cut the guy some slack, and move on to a real piece of news.  I say this as a die-hard Sox fan:  Posada deserves much better than this, even if he is "sitting it out" right now.
    Posted by soups

    Well said.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    My thoughts are that moving Posada down in the line-up was the right thing to do and that it was handled poorly.

    Probably the most egregious in the "drama" from last night was Cashman, who I usually have a great deal of respect for. There was no need to hold court in the middle of the game. Beside everything else it certainly caught both the player and the manager flat footed after the game when the media descended upon them.

    For his part it doesn't look great but Jorge probably did the right thing as a teammate believe it or not. Before the game he said all the right things. He went out for BP and found his head was in a bad place. He went and told the manager he needed to clear his head. A scuffling old guy with a slow bat and distractions in his head facing Josh Beckett is no way to fly. And while it is easy for others to say he should have just "shut up" and played it easy for us to say; but if one applies any empathy facing one's own mortality is not a pleasant or easy thing to do. And yesterday was another day that Posada had to face his career is crashing back to earth.

    Badly handled, mostly by Cashman. Without that statement, Jorge and Giardi make their statements with more clarity and it just goes away. Just how much this will be a distraction who knows. It is NY and just like in Boston the team has to be able to get past these kind of things. But Jorge best I can tell is no Manny Ramirez and much tighter with his teammates than the reclusive Garciaparra ever was. If the NYY were my team I would be apprehensive about it but OTOH the Bronx Zoo was founded on turning this kind of noise into an us against the world reaction. That's why they have always been such great theater.

    Just my takes. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Calmy. Show Calmy's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Posada:  "I'm refusing to play tonight."

    Girardi (Under breath) :  "Thank god".

    Cashman discussing JorgeGate midgame was a very disrespectful move.  How many times have we heard cliches about these types of things "being handled in the clubhouse" and there is the Cash Man hanging Posada out to dry mid game.  Weak.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Spot on, katz.  Without Cashman's comment, the story goes away.  Cash could have said, "That is an issue for the field manager. He posts the lineup. I have no comment."

    And then everyone could have had no comment and the story could have gone away.

    But Cash has issues with the team that go back to his contract negotiations pre-season, IMO.  Cash may be venting, not doing so well at being his usual discrete and dignified self. 

    Then again, it occurs to me that neither Jeter nor Posada may be aging well.  It's sad when it plays out in public like this.

    Especially when one considers their great success in years past.

    Guess we can't all age as well as Mo Rivera.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ronho. Show ronho's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Another media- made circus.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxPatsCelts1988. Show SoxPatsCelts1988's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    This goes both ways.  The Yanks treated him like sh*i*t in the offseason in regards to his whole catching situation.

    He also handled the situation poorly.  If he wanted to play somewhere where he could catch, then he should have demanded a trade.  Clearly he got over that and accepted the DH role.  Things snapped when they dropped him to 9th so he cried about it.  He's having an awful season which is beginning to look like it could be his last in MLB.

    This goes both ways.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from slomag. Show slomag's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    My thoughts are that moving Posada down in the line-up was the right thing to do and that it was handled poorly. Probably the most egregious in the "drama" from last night was Cashman, who I usually have a great deal of respect for. There was no need to hold court in the middle of the game. Beside everything else it certainly caught both the player and the manager flat footed after the game when the media descended upon them. For his part it doesn't look great but Jorge probably did the right thing as a teammate believe it or not. Before the game he said all the right things. He went out for BP and found his head was in a bad place. He went and told the manager he needed to clear his head. A scuffling old guy with a slow bat and distractions in his head facing Josh Beckett is no way to fly. And while it is easy for others to say he should have just "shut up" and played it easy for us to say; but if one applies any empathy facing one's own mortality is not a pleasant or easy thing to do. And yesterday was another day that Posada had to face his career is crashing back to earth. Badly handled, mostly by Cashman. Without that statement, Jorge and Giardi make their statements with more clarity and it just goes away. Just how much this will be a distraction who knows. It is NY and just like in Boston the team has to be able to get past these kind of things. But Jorge best I can tell is no Manny Ramirez and much tighter with his teammates than the reclusive Garciaparra ever was. If the NYY were my team I would be apprehensive about it but OTOH the Bronx Zoo was founded on turning this kind of noise into an us against the world reaction. That's why they have always been such great theater. Just my takes. 
    Posted by fivekatz

    Put yourself in Cashman's shoes.  The media notices that Posada is scratched, and they come to you and say "Posada is not in the lineup - is it injury related?"  What do you say?  If you say yes, it's a lie (as far as you know).  If you say he's scratched by manager's decision - that indicated Girardi had so little faith in him, he's not even batting ninth.  A "no comment" would have generated as much buzz as his answer, which was probably the best of a bunch of bad choices.  Posada has taken himself out of the lineup for non-injury reasons.




     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Number 1 consideration should be your teammates.  He let them down.  I'm baffled how anyone can defend him.  Blaming the media?  Watchthe press conference the reporters were deferential.  Cashman chose to go on air, how is the media to blame?

    Like most athletes his HOF career has gone to his head. Covering up his decision to play with mention of a stiff back is ludicrous. You suck it up and play for your teammates or you retire, anything in-between is unacceptable.
     

    yankeeist:  Any Yankee fan with a television or internet connection knows by now what happened last night with Jorge Posada. He arrived at the ballpark yesterday and saw that he was batting 9th, and initially seemed (at least publicly) to have no issue with it. Then he “threw a hissy fit” in the managers office and refused to play in last night’s game against the Red Sox. According to Joe Girardiin his press conference after the game, it wasn’t much of a conversation. Posada came in just before game time and told the manager “I need a day off” and that was pretty much it. He said no mention was made of any injury of any kind, so Joe said he took it as needing a day for his “mental health”.

    Girardi did his best to downplay it, but there’s no hiding the fact that this was highly unusual. If a player is physically hurt, he’s expected to tell his manager and the manager decides if it’s serious enough to sit him down. If a player is simply slumping, he is expected to take the field and give his best efforts until his manager decides he needs a break. That’s not what happened here. Incidents like this are what forced the Red Sox to trade Manny Ramirez, and we may very well be heading for a similarly ugly ending to this story as well.

    On Jorge’s part, it was the ultimate act of selfishness. His team has been struggling to score runs lately, and was facing a pitcher who dominated them just a few weeks ago. Andruw Jones, who arrived at the ballpark thinking he had the day off, was asked to play at the last minute. Never mind the fact that Andruw plays almost exclusively against Lefthanders, and Beckett is not just a Righty, but one of the toughest in baseball when he’s on. And Mr. Beckett was certainly ‘on’ last night. For what its worth, Jorge apparently_informed_andruw_to_be_ready_to_play.html?r=sports%
    did give Jones a heads up early that afternoon, so at least Jones got a chance to get his pregame ritual in.

    But for all practical purposes, Jorge quit on his team last night, just like Manny did. Since he’s a DH who’s not hitting, his days were likely to be numbered anyway. If anything, Jorge’s actions might have made his eventual exit easier for the team from a PR standpoint. But that assumes he will continue not to hit, and that determination won’t be made for at least another month in my view. In the meantime, the Yankees as an organization have to respond to this in some way. You can’t have a player deciding when he will/won’t play based on his being unhappy with his position in the lineup. For whatever fallout there may be from suspending or benching Jorge, the ramifications are worse if you allow the clubhouse to become a zoo, with players making their own rules. There’s no way to smooth this over with both Brian Cashman and the manager being on the record about there being no injury involved here. You can’t just say “ah, that silly Jorge. He’s an emotional guy”. Sorry, refusing to play goes beyond personality traits, it’s insubordination. You can’t run a team like that

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from losmediasrojas. Show losmediasrojas's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    In Response to Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?:
    Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?   Yes, he is a Core Four Yankee and deserves more respect than that No, he is hitting under .200 and Joe Girardi had the right to change things up Why does it matter where he bats? Get out there and hit the ball by Nick Cafardo/Boston Globe: NEW YORK — We understand the frustration of hitting .165, of having your position taken away and being moved to one that is foreign to you. We understand there may be some humiliation in being dropped to ninth in the batting order, but what Jorge Posada did last night was unprofessional for a player who has won four championships and who has always conducted himself with integrity. Posada didn’t do himself any favors after the game as he tried to explain his actions. For one, the catcher-turned-DH never told his manager, his general manager, or his trainer that his back was bothering him. He simply walked into Joe Girardi’s office about an hour before game time and said he needed a day to clear his head. Girardi said he didn’t ask any questions, knowing when a player asks for a day to clear his head, you oblige. Then, Girardi said, “I had to make out a new lineup and get the other guy [Andruw Jones] ready.’’ Posada’s reputation is now somewhat blemished. His legacy is now somewhat tainted and his explanation was really bad. His wife Laura tweeted during the game that her husband was experiencing back spasms. His father told the YES Network that his son made a poor decision. “I needed first to clear my head and that was it,’’ Posada said. “My back stiffened up a little bit. I was taking live ground balls at first base. I wasn’t 100 percent.’’ This is a guy, mind you, known for his toughness. It brought back the whole Nomar Garciaparra incident against the Yankees in 2004 when he sat out claiming his Achilles’ was too sore to play. Posada claimed his request had nothing to do with batting ninth. “That doesn’t matter,’’ he said. “I talked to you guys [media] before the game, I was clear with that. I put myself in that position [being dropped to ninth]. In that situation, I didn’t hit the way I wanted. I was looking forward to playing the game.’’ And then he said his back was not seriously injured. He said he had a chiropractor look at him during the game, but never went to the trainers. Girardi said he didn’t find out about the back issue until after he’d been ejected from the game in the seventh inning. He and Posada never spoke during the game. And then Posada seemed irked at GM Brian Cashman for updating the media during the game. “I don’t understand why he made a statement in the middle of the game. That’s the way he works now,’’ Posada said. Asked if he was mad at Cashman, Posada said, “Ah, well, we’ll see. I think we should have waited for the game to be over to talk rather than talk to whoever during the game. You’re not supposed to do that.’’ And a player is supposed to tell his manager and organization that his back hurts. Someone so tough is supposed to suck it up when the team is going as badly as the Yankees are right now. After all, Posada’s played through far worse as a catcher. As a DH? Posada should never have brought up his back to the media if he didn’t bring it up with his manager. Just tell the truth: He needs to clear his head. End of story. Asked whether he had cleared his head, Posada said, “I need a little bit more time. I need to talk to my wife and people around me and have a nice conversation and be here tomorrow.’’ Might he be mulling retirement? “No. I still want to be here. I love playing for this organization. Hopefully we can move on,’’ Posada said. Asked if he’s felt disrespected since November, when he was told he would no longer be catching, he said, “A little bit.’’ The Yankee brass will have to decide whether Posada should be fined or suspended for his behavior. As one of the core players still left, maybe he gets some leeway. “This is a situation we will take care of,’’ Girardi said. “Players go through tough times in this game. Sometimes we need days to clear our head and take a deep breath. I’ve been there. I’ve been through struggles. This season has been a struggle. He’s tried to fight through it and today he felt he needed a day.’’ The Red Sox’ David Ortiz, a longtime friend of Posada’s, weighed in after the game.“You know what I think? They’re doing that guy wrong,’’ said Ortiz. “You know why? That guy, he is legendary right there in that organization. And dude, DHing [stinks]. DHing is not easy. “From what I heard, they told him from the very beginning that he’s not even going to catch bullpens. That straight up will start messing with your head. And you’re going to tell me that Posada can’t catch a game out there? Come on, man.’’ Regarding Posada’s actions, Ortiz said, “You don’t do that. But that’s what I’m trying to tell you guys. The confusion, the frustration that you’re living in sometimes makes you make mistakes. He’s not perfect. He’s a human, just like everyone else. He probably [thought] it was the right thing to do, but now you see that [it wasn’t].’’ There’s no way Posada can come out of this with his reputation intact unless he admits he was wrong. Completely wrong. Because he was. And when he can think clearly, he will likely admit that. Love or hate the Yankees, Posada has always been a class act. Until last night.
    Posted by fir.eballer58


    I would love to hear Smiley's take on this.  He's got to be chompin' at the bit not being able to post for some reason.  No doubt he'd be all over this. 

    Thanks for filling in though with your straightforward discussion.  I think there's a place for both good baseball discussion and entertaining silliness in this forum.
     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ma6dragon9. Show ma6dragon9's posts

    Re: Poll: Was Jorge Posada justified for sitting out after being told to bat 9th?

    Apparently not...since HE apologized to the Manager.

    He was wrong on all fronts, but he did the right thing today, and I hope this goes away just as quickly.
     
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