Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from william93063. Show william93063's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    The Yankee's brass has to be second guessing themselves at least somewhat for letting Alfredo take a walk.  He has a + fastball with late life, lots of movement and terrific command.   He had some nagging back issues which was why they decided not to reup him.  I really believe they will regret it long term.

    The problem with putting Wakefield in the pen is the ONLY thing he can reasonably be expected to do is mop up.  That is not a deal breaker but it is a big question.  Wake obviously has monumentally more experience, but I love Aceves' stuff and the deliberate way he goes about his business!  That is something they share!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    In Response to Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter? : Ok, that's certainly a fair statement that he seems to come through when he's needed most, and he's been around forever so he's certainly been a rock in that regard.  I just think that Aceves gives us a better chance to win consistently than Wake in a starting role. There's really no clear cut answer here, but Atchison is just being used in a mop up role currently, and if he goes down to AAA, there's no reason Wake can't fill that same role, and provide the occasional spot start as needed (which would be when the Sox need him most). 
    Posted by JB-3[/QUOTE]

    100% agree JB..I think Aceves gives you the better chance to win and hes been hungry for a starting role. 16-1 is no accident IMO. Atch to AAA, Wake to the pen. No disrespect to wake, I just think it would be the best thing for the team.. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    In Response to Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?:
    [QUOTE]The Yankee's brass has to be second guessing themselves at least somewhat for letting Alfredo take a walk.  He has a + fastball with late life, lots of movement and terrific command.   He had some nagging back issues which was why they decided not to reup him.  I really believe they will regret it long term. The problem with putting Wakefield in the pen is the ONLY thing he can reasonably be expected to do is mop up.  That is not a deal breaker but it is a big question.  Wake obviously has monumentally more experience, but I love Aceves' stuff and the deliberate way he goes about his business!  That is something they share!
    Posted by william93063[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but what's Atchison's role right now?  Last year Atchison was used in higher leverage situations out of necessity and was ok, but he isn't being used like that in the bullpen.  Wake can fill the same role Atchison has now.

    Another big question is who gets sent down when Jenks comes off of the DL?Hill isn't going to be sent back down in the Sox system, if they try to send him down, he'll be claimed by another team.  Presumably, Atchison will already be down in AAA.  I don't believe Morales has any options left (though I may be wrong).  These things usually have a way of working themselves out, but it's still an important question.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    No, I don't think 16-1 and his ERA is any accident.

    Wakefield's 5 plus ERA since the last half of 2009 is also no accident.

    When Lackey returns:

    1. DFA Wakefield (Oki had mostly good outings and was DFA'd, so Wakefield's few decent outings should be disregarded given his 5 plus ERA since 2nd half 2009) Run Wakefield through waivers and trade him for a case of slimfast if he won't agree to a AAA assignment, like Oki agreed to when he could have gone elsewhere and had Theo on the near 100% hook.

    When Doubrant comes off AAA DL:

    1. Call up Doubrant for spot start long relief

    2. Demote the least effective pen arm

     
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    In Response to Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?:
    [QUOTE]No, I don't think 16-1 and his ERA is any accident. Wakefield's 5 plus ERA since the last half of 2009 is also no accident. When Lackey returns: 1. DFA Wakefield (Oki had mostly good outings and was DFA'd, so Wakefield's few decent outings should be disregarded given his 5 plus ERA since 2nd half 2009) Run Wakefield through waivers and trade him for a case of slimfast if he won't agree to a AAA assignment, like Oki agreed to when he could have gone elsewhere and had Theo on the near 100% hook. When Doubrant comes off AAA DL: 1. Call up Doubrant for spot start long relief 2. Demote the least effective pen arm  
    Posted by SoxSoldRed[/QUOTE]

    Only 1 real problem (though 2 issues IMO).

    The real issue is that the Sox can't trade Wake at all, especially if they DFA him.  Why would he approve a trade if he could just elect FA?  (He has 10-5 rights).  Ownership has had no problem trading fan favorites in the past (see Nomar), but I think Wake would rather pick his next team if he was going to be released.

    Personally, I'd rather keep Doubront in AAA as starter depth.  Especially in the event that Wake is let go.  If you want a spot start from Doubront then that's fine, but he needs to stay stretched out given his growing injury history (or converted to a reliever).
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Wakefield wouldn't approve a AAA assignment, you are correct. And, of course, if he won't approve a trade for a case of slimfast (farm scrap), then of course he'll be a FA. He has said he wants to keep pitching and would consider FLA if the Red Sox keep him in a mop-up role.

    The loyalty things was always nonsense. The reality is that if a team offered Wakefield a multi-year deal or a one year deal for a significant increase, he would have been gone many years ago. There is a reason no one has much interest in him.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from CORRADJ. Show CORRADJ's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Uh, no, the reason he's still here is because he signed a lifetime contract with the Sox, who have unlimited team options on him for as long as they desire. And every year the idiots on this board want him gone, and yet every year he proves to be a valuable commodity. 

    And why would he ever "accept" a demotion to AAA at this point in his career?Exactly what motivation is there for him to do so? Would you? I don't think so. He deserves to be on a big league club, and when the day comes when he no longer does he will retire. And that's the way it should be.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SoxSoldRed. Show SoxSoldRed's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    There has been nothing "valuable" about Wakefield, since the 2nd half of 2009.

    Oki did, and could have become a FA. I would, yes, if I was a bad as Wakefield and the Red Sox had allow me to roster freeload for years. I'd feel obliged. 

    The reason he is still here is because no other team as any serious interest and he's fan favorite in his team mascot mop up role. 

    he does not deserve to be on Red Sox roster. His 5 plus ERA would sen almost anyone else packing. The day has passed since he should have retired. He will be gone when he gets kicked out of MLB. He will not retire, he will be forced out. That may come, this year, should he be asked to take the ball every 5 days instead of every 2 weeks.     
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from craig2174. Show craig2174's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Lackey if he has to be in rotation is at best the fifth starter

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from joyceand. Show joyceand's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    My question is does Lackey have to return?  After all, his life probably still sucks and the Sox are doing fine without him.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from summerof67. Show summerof67's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    I agree with Bill - b)

    Wakes is struggling with age and a cranky hip. Aceves is younger and has the pitching chops.  Wakes is perfect for some mid relief and the occasional start.

    Simple.

    Lord knows if Doubront will ever be ready.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from fancy-shamanski. Show fancy-shamanski's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Lackey should go to the pen... It would never happen, but they should let wake pitch over him him because wake is better than him.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Goofywocky. Show Goofywocky's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Lets hope hope Timmy the knuckluh stays in the rotation.  Lackey and Stenks can play golf somewhere
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from sundvl20. Show sundvl20's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    4)Aceves, 5)Wakefield until one of them starts falling apart. Lackey can be long relief until then whether he likes it or not
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lifelongsoxdawg. Show lifelongsoxdawg's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Keep Lackey out of the rotation (he stinks) and stick with Wake and Aceves at least until proven otherwise. Keep Lackey in the bullpen for long relief. He hasn't earned the right to return.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ADG. Show ADG's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Unfortunately, the answer should be that both these guys should continue starting and Lackey should remain on the DL.

    No different than JD Drew, these guys have done nothing to help the team. As we've seen, spending money on John Lackey was a big waste. An albatross of a contract.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    I would rather have wakefield, a sreaky pitcher, in the rotation, rather than Lackey, a consistently bad pitcher, in the rotation.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    this is easy. without a doubt its wakefield. he;s the first option. thats the only reason he's on the staff at 3m. clear? he really isnt the ideal bullpen guy for obvious reasons. aceves can be slided there. same with a doubront. less wake is hurt or not getting the job done, he wont be replaced as a sub. once dice is ready, wake will be pushed out as well. odds are beckett will miss 3 or 4 more starts and others will miss osme as well. aceves will be gone after this year as doubront takes his place after wake as 2nd alternate. this is theo at his best. the starting unit has not missed a beat with 2 guys down. with felix healthy, we could absorb 3 down. thats just good depth. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    CC..You really think Theo would get rid of Aceves at the end of the year if he does well and is under control for 3 more years? Ya almost had me until that..Theres no way Theo will just let Aceves go without getting a reurn (trade). Especially if he keeps doing well.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    wake...better suited to start   aceves is better suited for the pen based on our needs....plus you know that at some point both will have to start because of injuries
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Boomerangsdotcom. Show Boomerangsdotcom's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    Wakefield will probably give us a quality start 1 out of every 2 turns. That's decent for a number 5 and he could well do better. Aceves can be extremely helpful out of the pen as a long reliever and the type of guy you want to stick in there when the game is tied in the 10th. He can keep putting up zeros until we win those types of games.

    Aceves could really transform the pen by giving them quality long relief when needed, keeping everyone fresh. This is probably the deepest pen we have had in years if Aceves is in the pen. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    I see this as a no-brainer. 

    Wake becomes the #5 guy until he proves he can't do it and Aceves goes to the 'pen.  If/When Wake proves he can't do it he and Aceves trade roles. 

    Wake is what he is.  He's going to pitch well sometimes and other times get shelled. The thing that hurts him in the eyes of the people like us is that when he gets shelled he gets shelled BADLY.  He could give up 10 runs in an inning if the knuckler isn't working! 
    Unfortunately by the time we (Tito) figure out it's not working he's already given up 3 or 4 and the game is getting out of hand.  In reality giving up 10 in one inning is usually no worse than giving up 5 in one inning.  You're probably going to lose either way.  But it's ONLY ONE LOSS. 

    Aceves is better suited to the 'pen.  He warms up faster and is probably more reliable.  I'd rather have him pitching innings 5-7 if a starter is struggling than I would Wake and I'd certainly rather have Aceves coming in in a 'Save Situation' than I would Wake. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Poll: When Lackey returns, who is your 5th starter?

    I posted this in another topic:

    "Wake's ERA is under 4 (3.96) as a starter, and has a 5.31 ERA as a reliever.

    However his ERA as a reliever is offset by a single implosion (much like how you can't judge Albers by his 3.93 ERA), in a loss VS. Tampa Bay in which Daisuke had his infamous super implosion game, Wakefield was put on extreme mop-up duty, pitching 3.1 innings to just plain get us out of that game without our bullpen being wrecked. In that game Wakefield gave up 4 runs.

    Without that game Wake's ERA is 3.04. I'm aware you cannot do that when talking about season totals, an ERA is an ERA. However, when judging consistency, you do not want skewed stats. With a 5.31 ERA, it looks unreasonable to put Wake in a 2 or 3 run game as a reliever, however it is not. Wakefield is still what he always was, whether he's starting or relieving, use him Francona!"


    To go along with that, Alfredo put up a 2.60 ERA from the bullpen, and a 1.36 ERA as a starter (however 2 starts is half the sample size of 4 when comparing to Wakefield).

    Alfredo is now the better pitcher that is clear, but both are good pitchers. The question is what do you want to strengthen more, you're number five slot of the starting rotation, or the bullpen? Honestly, I choose the 'pen. I think Alfredo being in the 'pen puts less pressure on Francona to use Bard every day, which will probably make Bard better in the long run. It pushes Albers back to being a number 7 inning guy, instead of the number 8 inning guy he imploded as. If Jenks and Wheeler were pitching effectively, I'd say keep Alfredo in the rotation, but right now niether of them have merited much trust.
     
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