Poor JBJr

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Poor JBJr

    It's got to be the saddest case since Pokey Reese. Jackie Bradley has 132 strikeouts in 463 career PA or one K in every 3.5 PA. He has 30 career extra-base hits, 1 in every 15.4 PA. And he has 39 career walks or 1 in every 12 PA....This is why our Gold Glove CF can't play every day or can't be considered a viable every day player. And it sucks because you can't find a better thrower/fielder. At least Reese had some full-time seasons and had 2 GGs and got through 8 MLB seasons...I don't see JBJ being around much longer even as a utility fielder. Outfielders simply have to hit somewhat to remain. It sucks, I like the guy a lot. I'm pulling for him, but it's getting close to pulling the plug...In 3100 plus PA, Reese K'd on average once every 5.9 PA....Bradley again 1 every 3.5...Reese homered once every 71 PA...Bradley has homered once every 115.8 PA...That's disgusting.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    ... or we give a rookie the benefit of the doubt that he can overcome his rookie problems.

        
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    ... or we give a rookie the benefit of the doubt that he can overcome his rookie problems.

        [/QUOTE]  B I N G O   DAT   !!!


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    Space, he's not even coming close to making contact on breaking balls and he can't catch up fast enough on a high fastball...benefit of the doubt? Well, he's had a pretty good sample size of at bats this year...101 Ks in that time too, but 3.5 plate appearances produces a K...he basically K's every game he plays and he doesn't hit for power and he doesn't reach base. He does one thing well--play defense.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    If players were judged based on their first 162 games and either played or released forever based on that information....some of the games best players would never have come to be.

    Yes....sometimes rookies smash and are immediate superstars.  But it is far more likely rookies struggle like JBJ.  I'm not saying he's going to be a superstar, because I don't think he is.....but you can't close the book on him yet.

    You can pump up every rookie, and claim every guys who struggles will be a star and look like a Genius when guys like Trout and Pedroia turn it around.

    You can also doubt, and bash every guy who struggles and then take credit for it when they never amount to anything, because some of them won't amount to anything.

    But there is nothing wrong, with not knowing exactly what a guy is and trusting the scouting and projection and wanting to give someone a long look and a chance.  We've seen him make adjustment go on a couple hot streaks and look good at times this year, with the exception of the last couple weeks he's looked much much better since June 1st.  You can't close the book on Bradley.

    ....out of all the years to struggle with a rookie, this is the year to let it fly.....let them struggle.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Space, he's not even coming close to making contact on breaking balls and he can't catch up fast enough on a high fastball...benefit of the doubt? Well, he's had a pretty good sample size of at bats this year...101 Ks in that time too, but 3.5 plate appearances produces a K...he basically K's every game he plays and he doesn't hit for power and he doesn't reach base. He does one thing well--play defense.

    [/QUOTE]


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    His slash line in July was .278/.325/.347.  Not tremendous, but it sure seemed like he was turning a corner.  He was hitting the ball with authority too.  Now he has regressed.  But, because of his prolonged stretch in which he actually looked like a major league hitter last month, that buys the benefit of the doubt from me that, with a few more adjustments and a hard winter of work, he might get there.  Not saying I think that is inevitable.  Just possible.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's got to be the saddest case since Pokey Reese. Jackie Bradley has 132 strikeouts in 463 career PA or one K in every 3.5 PA. He has 30 career extra-base hits, 1 in every 15.4 PA. And he has 39 career walks or 1 in every 12 PA....This is why our Gold Glove CF can't play every day or can't be considered a viable every day player. And it sucks because you can't find a better thrower/fielder. At least Reese had some full-time seasons and had 2 GGs and got through 8 MLB seasons...I don't see JBJ being around much longer even as a utility fielder. Outfielders simply have to hit somewhat to remain. It sucks, I like the guy a lot. I'm pulling for him, but it's getting close to pulling the plug...In 3100 plus PA, Reese K'd on average once every 5.9 PA....Bradley again 1 every 3.5...Reese homered once every 71 PA...Bradley has homered once every 115.8 PA...That's disgusting.

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm a big Betts, Bogy and Swihart fan but still willing to give JBJ some time.  I think to some extent you need to question the FO and fans who thought JBJ should play too soon just because of some good minor league numbers and a hot ST.  It's quite obvious to a lot of people who have played the game he had flaws in his swing from day one and has little power potential right now.  Would a new BI help, maybe but you rarely get many that actually know how to teach a kid or vet new tricks at the plate.  Middy on the other hand we need to make a decision on by years end he has had more than enough time to improve and we need an every day glove and bat at 3B.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from chickenandboose. Show chickenandboose's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    He will get traded to a NL ream WILL flourish to a .250 hitter. 

     

    I wonder if he will win a GG this season? 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    His minor league numbers are good enough to hold out hope.....

    Having said that, he still looks TOO LOST at the plate????   What the hell happened to that vaunted "exceptional plate approach??????"

    How could so many have been so wrong on this kid at the late??????

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to redsoxdirtdog's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    His minor league numbers are good enough to hold out hope.....

    Having said that, he still looks TOO LOST at the plate????   What the hell happened to that vaunted "exceptional plate approach??????"

    How could so many have been so wrong on this kid at the late??????

    [/QUOTE]


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    Hahah.  Yeah, well, i guess lots of guys can have "exceptional plate approach" when they are not facing pitchers who set up curveballs that fall off tables with mid nineties fastballs on the black every night.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    I could care less how much a guy strikes out his rookie season.


    Giancarlo Stanton led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year.


    Paul Goldshmidt led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year


    Mike Trout led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


    Austin Jackson led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


    Dexter Fowler led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


    Carlos Gomez led ALL rookies in K's his rookie yea


    Chris Carter led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year.


    Matt Kemp led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year


    Hanley Ramirez led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year.


    Willy Mo Pena led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year....had to give ya one : )


    Brad Wilkerson led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


    Alfonzo Soriano led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


    Craig Wilson led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year


    Are there some players I omitted from this list? yes I am....but those players are only the #1 guy in that category let alone the guys who ranked right behind them.  Are their some nobody's on this list?? yes


    are their some guys in between that I omitted as well?? yeah...But my point isn't that JBJ is going to succeed rather that a player facing adversity and struggling his first year is not uncommon...even amongst the leagues best players.


    If he learns from this year and he becomes a better player for it...then great.


    Should we expand to the top 5??? or go into the last century???


     

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    Pedroia's "start" was 31 games, less than 100 PA...By the 200 PA mark, he was on his way to Rookie of the Year...so please do not use him as an example for Bradley...Trout, 40 games and 135 PA, by the 235 PA mark, he too, like Pedroia, was on his way to Rookie of the Year...Bradley is approaching 500 PA...this is no small sample size, people. He is beyond terrible at the plate. 

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    4 HR IN 463 PA...132 KS...HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU SAY THIS IS ACCEPTABLE?

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    Before someone says anything about Dwight Evans early in his career, take note...10 HR at least in platoon OF role first few seasons each. 70 RBI by 2nd season.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Pedroia's "start" was 31 games, less than 100 PA...By the 200 PA mark, he was on his way to Rookie of the Year...so please do not use him as an example for Bradley...Trout, 40 games and 135 PA, by the 235 PA mark, he too, like Pedroia, was on his way to Rookie of the Year...Bradley is approaching 500 PA...this is no small sample size, people. He is beyond terrible at the plate. 

    [/QUOTE]

    I can use many many more than just those two.  Rookies struggle, that is fact.

    If JBJ is struggling a couple months into next year, then I'll agree with you. Until then I'll wait and see....good things come to those who wait.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:


    I could care less how much a guy strikes out his rookie season.


     


    Giancarlo Stanton led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year.


     


    Paul Goldshmidt led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year


     


    Mike Trout led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


     


    Austin Jackson led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


     


    Dexter Fowler led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


     


    Carlos Gomez led ALL rookies in K's his rookie yea


     


    Chris Carter led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year.


     


    Matt Kemp led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year


     


    Hanley Ramirez led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year.


     


    Willy Mo Pena led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year....had to give ya one : )


     


    Brad Wilkerson led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


     


    Alfonzo Soriano led ALL rookies in K's his rookie year


     


    Craig Wilson led ALL rookies in K% his rookie year


     


    Are there some players I omitted from this list? yes I am....but those players are only the #1 guy in that category let alone the guys who ranked right behind them.  Are their some nobody's on this list?? yes


     


    are their some guys in between that I omitted as well?? yeah...But my point isn't that JBJ is going to succeed rather that a player facing adversity and struggling his first year is not uncommon...even amongst the leagues best players.


     


    If he learns from this year and he becomes a better player for it...then great.


     


    Should we expand to the top 5??? or go into the last century???



    Good point hugh, I could also care less about SO's with a rookie.  Offensively I look more at poise/plate discipline, confidence and to some extent power potential.  JBJ so far lacks in all these categories, he has good CF defense but in this league sometimes you blink your eyes or struggle and a kid like Betts pops up out of nowhere.  JBJ doesn't need any more pressure at this point he just needs to work on his own weaknesses.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Before someone says anything about Dwight Evans early in his career, take note...10 HR at least in platoon OF role first few seasons each. 70 RBI by 2nd season.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok....so lets see what he does his 2nd season. JBJ hit 13 last year between Pawtucket and Boston, and 9 the year before that.  Most scouts project him to be a 10-12 guy. He also put up high OBP's in the minors.  If his Milb numbers can translate into game action his 2nd or 3rd year it will be well worth it with his GG defense in center.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ctredsoxfanhugh. Show ctredsoxfanhugh's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    @craze4sox.  Thank you.  And I just want to say that I'm not trying to imply that JBJ will be as good at the plate as those guys, I'm only trying to point out that even the games best hitters to some extent struggled their rookie years.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    Stanton 22 HR 1st season....Kemp first actual season .894 OPS....Goldschmidt 20 HR, .850 OPS...Pena your joke reference...26 HR his first full season after a pedestrian 5 HR in a part-time first year...None of your examples were as bad as Bradley over first 460 PA...none of them were as atrocious offensively, as powerless...to go with the Ks...Big difference to compare any of them.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dgalehouse. Show dgalehouse's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    A lot of adjustments are needed when moving up the ladder to MLB.  Bradley was overmatched at first, made some adjustments to his stance and approach at the plate and showed a lot of improvement. Now pitchers have seen that and are pitching him tougher. He has slumped big time. The ball is now back in his court. He has to adjust once again to how they are pitching him. I think he will figure it out. He has always been a pretty good hitter in the minors.  He will have to figure it out pretty soon though. Holt has to play and Betts is waiting for his chance. I am not one of those who think Jackie's defense alone is enough to keep him in the lineup. There has to be some offensive productivity.

    Stabbed by Foulke.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    He got a cup of coffee of at bats...actually a pretty good amount in '13 and then has had a full-timers amount this year....It's not like he's getting better either. He's getting worse.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    In response to ctredsoxfanhugh's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to dannycater's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Before someone says anything about Dwight Evans early in his career, take note...10 HR at least in platoon OF role first few seasons each. 70 RBI by 2nd season.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok....so lets see what he does his 2nd season. JBJ hit 13 last year between Pawtucket and Boston, and 9 the year before that.  Most scouts project him to be a 10-12 guy. He also put up high OBP's in the minors.  If his Milb numbers can translate into game action his 2nd or 3rd year it will be well worth it with his GG defense in center.

    [/QUOTE]

    Like I said to another poster hugh, sometimes a player doesn't get that second or third chance like Middy depending on a teams need.  JBJ's future all depends on how Shane, Holt, Craig, Ces and Betts develop before ST.  Look at Iggy, one day he couldn't hit a lick.  Our FO may have made a huge mistake keeping Bogy over Iggy.  Bogy is a guy like Holt searching for a defensive position he can hold down.  Iggy is probably the best SS/3B I ever had the pleasure of watching here in Boston so if he goes on to hit and stay healthy?   

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    You are using minor league numbers to promote Bradley. In every other case, I've used MLB numbers for all the examples you were trying to compare to JBJ...He homers once every 115 MLB PA...this is not someone who is suddenly going to find it when he is striking out by 2 or 3 feet on pitches once every 3.5.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    It pains me to agree with the OP. It's not just the strikeouts. It's the complete and utter futility he has shown at the plate. He is such a brilliant fielder, I'm not looking for too much hitting from him. But so far he looks pretty helpless against major league pitching. If this doesn't change, he really doesn't qualify to be a starter on a major league team. It will really be sad if he can't improve his hitting because he may be the best defensive CF I have ever seen play for the Sox.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Poor JBJr

    Pitchers flat out own him...there's already a book on him...throw him a breaking ball with 2 strikes, throw it in the dirt, he will swing. Throw him a high fastball, he will swing...I'm sorry to trash on him because I love him defensively....But fans have basically accepted bad offense for so long that people don't even watch the at bats anymore. I don't see him getting better, I don't know how he can justify at bats over most anyone left on the roster. 

     

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