Positives from Bard's start

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    I didn't see much positive, but I try to refrain from small sample judgements. I still wish he was in our pen right now.
    Posted by moonslav59


    Your better than that Moon.  Just b/c you have long advocated Bard in the pen doesn't mean you can't acknowledge the positives that were apparent last night.  1 BB 6 K  and only 1 extra base hit, which was a fluke. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    He only threw what, 2 change ups last night?

    If he continues like that he's gonna get hit.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    He only threw what, 2 change ups last night? If he continues like that he's gonna get hit.
    Posted by TBINFL


    yup
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    The at bat with Jose Bautista late in the game where he was down 3-0 and came back and struck him out. Made him look silly. The movement on few of the pitches was excellent. Bard needs another pitch, per Mulder @ espn. All in all Bard will only get better. Good things are to come down the line.

    He told BobbyV he still had 25 pitches in him when he got janked. That good news also.
     
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    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    The at bat with Jose Bautista late in the game where he was down 3-0 and came back and struck him out. Made him look silly. The movement on few of the pitches was excellent. Bard needs another pitch, per Mulder @ espn. All in all Bard will only get better. Good things are to come down the line. He told BobbyV he still had 25 pitches in him when he got janked. That good news also.
    Posted by beavis


    If he had another pitch then he could have gone another 10-15 pitches, but when his fastball is down to 92, it's time to hit the showers.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : Your better than that Moon.  Just b/c you have long advocated Bard in the pen doesn't mean you can't acknowledge the positives that were apparent last night.  1 BB 6 K  and only 1 extra base hit, which was a fluke. 
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards

    It has nothing to do with me wanting him in the pen. I am not like others who pray someone does poorly, so they can say "I told you so." 

    I said I didn't see "much positive". That is not the same as saying nothing positive. He had some good moments. I have never been one to look at Ks as a major indicator of skill. I am not being inconsistent. I like the fact that he walked only one and with defensive help, could have had better numbers, but overall, I was not impressed. Sorry, if that doesn't jive with your opinion.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : It has nothing to do with me wanting him in the pen. I am not like others who pray someone does poorly, so they can say "I told you so."  I said I didn't see "much positive". That is not the same as saying nothing positive. He had some good moments. I have never been one to look at Ks as a major indicator of skill. I am not being inconsistent. I like the fact that he walked only one and with defensive help, could have had better numbers, but overall, I was not impressed. Sorry, if that doesn't jive with your opinion.
    Posted by moonslav59


    I like K's and swings and misses.  It is hard to score when you don't put the ball in play.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JB-3. Show JB-3's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : I like K's and swings and misses.  It is hard to score when you don't put the ball in play.
    Posted by Thesemenarecowards


    I prefer swings and misses to K's.  Only once last season, did a Sox starter get more swings and misses last season.
     
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    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    If patience is employed, Bard will turn into a solid career starter. He needs to mature with experience, and he will, if given the time to do so.

    Bard looked decent his first ever MLB start.

     
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    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    If patience is employed, Bard will turn into a solid career starter. He needs to mature with experience, and he will, if given the time to do so. Bard looked decent his first ever MLB start.
    Posted by hankwilliamsjr

    Yup, decent, if you like your starters to have a 9.00 ERA.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    It wasn't a disaster, but it's hardly a useful standard for future starts.  We can be pretty sure Beckett and Buchholz are better than their last starts, but not Bard.  Most of the time last night it seemed to me that both Bard and the Blue Jays loved his fastball.  He basically threw two pitches, slider and fastball, and occasionally a changeup.  His velocity slowed when his pitch count went over 90.  He did not inspire confidence, but his first outing was not a disaster--he even went out to start the 6th. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RSF4Life234. Show RSF4Life234's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : Yup, decent, if you like your starters to have a 9.00 ERA.
    Posted by TBINFL


    Oh you got him you know Bards ERA after his first start of the season, totally an appropriate judgement for the rest of his career! Your wit is so sophisticated and your intellectual capacity truly knows no bounds!
     
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    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In response to "Re: Positives from Bard's start":
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : Yup, decent, if you like your starters to have a 9.00 ERA. Posted by TBINFL
    This is weak, even for you. Bard showed more than enough to generate some optimism and squash the bullpen crap for a while...Lots of seeing eye grounders, shaky defense, solid command...the "stats" don't tell the whole story here...
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : It has nothing to do with me wanting him in the pen. I am not like others who pray someone does poorly, so they can say "I told you so."  I said I didn't see "much positive". That is not the same as saying nothing positive. He had some good moments. I have never been one to look at Ks as a major indicator of skill. I am not being inconsistent. I like the fact that he walked only one and with defensive help, could have had better numbers, but overall, I was not impressed. Sorry, if that doesn't jive with your opinion.
    Posted by moonslav59


    From my chair, he pitched pretty darn well and had some bad luck.  Ignoring the stats is dangerous over a large sample set but doing so in one start is fine.  You say "overall I was not impressed" ... I for one am curious what leads you to say that.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    The rap on Bard was he only has two pitches, slider and fastball, which is not enough to go through a lineup 2 or 3 or 4 times, but fine for relief duty.  For now, I think he is an OK option as 5th starter, but think Bard is the best choice to return to the bullpen if Cook, Matsuzaka, whoever is ready to start.  If Buchholz's back is bad or he has returned to the thrilling days of yesteryear when he couldn't command his pitches, than Bard could continue to start. 

    I was not impressed last night. 
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    The rap on Bard was he only has two pitches, slider and fastball, which is not enough to go through a lineup 2 or 3 or 4 times, but fine for relief duty.  For now, I think he is an OK option as 5th starter, but think Bard is the best choice to return to the bullpen if Cook, Matsuzaka, whoever is ready to start.  If Buchholz's back is bad or he has returned to the thrilling days of yesteryear when he couldn't command his pitches, than Bard could continue to start.  I was not impressed last night. 
    Posted by maxbialystock


    I have long been a proponent of giving Bard a chance in the rotation because I think if he can be an effective starter he has more value to the team throwing 200 innings than 70.... BUT   I do agree that if/when Dice or Cook is ready Bard is the logical choice to move back to the Pen if either of those other guys proves to be effective this year.  However, if Bard is pitching well in the starting role it doesn't really make sense to move him to make room. 

    One thing is clear, the "where should Bard be used" debate is not going away anytime soon.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TBINFL. Show TBINFL's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In response to "Re: Positives from Bard's start": This is weak, even for you. Bard showed more than enough to generate some optimism and squash the bullpen crap for a while...Lots of seeing eye grounders, shaky defense, solid command...the "stats" don't tell the whole story here...
    Posted by jasko2248

    Sounds more like lots of excuses.

    Bottom line is he gave up 5 earned in 5 innings.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : I prefer swings and misses to K's.  Only once last season, did a Sox starter get more swings and misses last season.
    Posted by JB-3


    NESN trivia today.... In 1999 Pedro struck out 10+ 19 times, so there is that.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from 111SoxFan111. Show 111SoxFan111's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    The rap on Bard was he only has two pitches, slider and fastball
    Posted by maxbialystock

    Are you referring to a four seam or two seam fast ball? FWIW, Bard has four pitches: four seam, two seam, slider and change up.  Also, his pitch mix from last year was pretty similar to Beckett in 2007 ... I seem to recall Becket had a pretty good year in 2007.  I am not arguing that Bard will make a good starter ... or that he won't.  I am just making a point that the "rap on Bard" is wrong, has always been wrong and will continue to be wrong and I wish people would stop repeating it as gospel.  That is all.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jasko2248. Show jasko2248's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In response to "Re: Positives from Bard's start":
    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start : I have long been a proponent of giving Bard a chance in the rotation because I think if he can be an effective starter he has more value to the team throwing 200 innings than 70.... BUT   I do agree that if/when Dice or Cook is ready Bard is the logical choice to move back to the Pen if either of those other guys proves to be effective this year.  However, if Bard is pitching well in the starting role it doesn't really make sense to move him to make room.  One thing is clear, the "where should Bard be used" debate is not going away anytime soon. Posted by Thesemenarecowards
    It won't go away among fans, but a move back to the bullpen definitely isn't something that is being considered within the organization at the moment. After watching Bard's interview Monday, it seemed pretty clear that this is a guy who does NOT want to pitch out of the bullpen...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    Just to make myself clear--I was all in favor of Bard starting and, for now, still am.  But I did not see that many positives last night.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    In response to "Re: Positives from Bard's start": It won't go away among fans, but a move back to the bullpen definitely isn't something that is being considered within the organization at the moment. After watching Bard's interview Monday, it seemed pretty clear that this is a guy who does NOT want to pitch out of the bullpen...
    Posted by jasko2248


    Well barring an injury, when DiceK is ready, something is going to have to give.  Maybe it is Doubrant but I don't see Dice heading to the Pen. 

    I'm not exactly clear on Cook's contract but I'm pretty sure if he is not on the roster by May 1, he is gone, so there is also that.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from beavis. Show beavis's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    Bard wants to be in the rotation because his agent whispered in his ear: "starters make more money son"...early in Bard career management took him from starting because of control problems...he seems to be getting a better grip on the ball with control...
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Positives from Bard's start

    In Response to Re: Positives from Bard's start:
    you guys are nuts..with na lil more luck, he couldve pulled a felix d last nite...i dont usually agree with tom but if you didnt see the worth of bard starting last nite, then youre blind...
    Posted by georom4


    Agree. There was a lot to like. Hopefully the next time out, those seeing-eye grounders become routine grounders rather than hard shots.

    I still have a wait-and-see attitude with him. I never like small samples, but I felt it was a good start.


     
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