In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

 

In response to nhsteven's comment:

 

In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

 

Here's a comparison that should be reasonable:

Beckett with Red Sox

1240 innings

4.17 ERA

110 ERA+

Dempster with Cubs

1182 innings

3.74 ERA

115 ERA+

 

 

The DH is good for about 0.7 to 1.0 runs.

 

 

Not quite that much.  And ERA+ is adjusted for all that because it compares to league ERA.

 

 

Admittedly, I didn't see that; however, that's if you believe in ERA+. Here's a point to debunk it some. In the late 1990s, MLB had an ERA of about 5.1. In the late 60s, it was under 3. This means a P with an ERA in the mid 3's in the 1st period shall have a comparable if not better ERA+ than someone in the High 1s in the late 60s.

 

I'm not buying it. ERC# may be a better measure, but it's still flawed, albeit less so. 

 

In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

ERA+ is as close to a level playing field comparison as you're going to get.

The fact is that Beckett had some great stretches of pitching and some horrendous stretches.  For his talent level he's the most erratic starter I've ever seen.

In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

 

In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

 

In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:

 

Here's a comparison that should be reasonable:

Beckett with Red Sox

1240 innings

4.17 ERA

110 ERA+

Dempster with Cubs

1182 innings

3.74 ERA

115 ERA+

 

 

How is pitching in the NL Central comparable to pitching in the AL East?

 

 

 

ERA+ is as close to a level playing field comparison as you're going to get.

The fact is that Beckett had some great stretches of pitching and some horrendous stretches.  For his talent level he's the most erratic starter I've ever seen.

 

 

See above.

Having said that, he's no Aaron Cook or Paul Byrd; but don't expect him to be a world beater. And while he's a horse (eating innings is always a good thing, and the prerequisite to do this is to be effective & have stamina, which he is), he is getting up there.

This post has been removed.

In response to nhsteven's comment:

 

All the stats that take luck into account so to speak like xFIP, tERA, and Siera all have Dempster well ahead of Beckett last year. But yes, the first half of last year Dempster was pretty lucky. He was still better then Beckett, luck or no luck.

 

Let me restate, Beckett is not A LOT better then Dempster. Which was my point.

beckett destroyed the Sox the last two seasons singlehandedly...his idiotic behavior and bloated mound incomptence is why the 2011 and 2012 seasons hit the skids...

the best part of 2013? No Slosh Buckett...

This post has been removed.

Here's a comparison that should be reasonable:

Beckett with Red Sox

1240 innings

4.17 ERA

110 ERA+

Dempster with Cubs

1182 innings

3.74 ERA

115 ERA+

 

 

How is pitching in the NL Central comparable to pitching in the AL East?

 

 

 

ERA+ is as close to a level playing field comparison as you're going to get.

The fact is that Beckett had some great stretches of pitching and some horrendous stretches.  For his talent level he's the most erratic starter I've ever seen.

A couple of other ERA stats of use...

2006-2012

 

tERA

Beckett  4.23

Dempster  4.16

 

SIERA

Beckett  3.68

Dempster  3.79

 

How about WHIP:

Beckett  1.23

Dempster 1.30  (No DH/Little AL East action)

 

xFIP

Beckett  3.69

Dempster 3.73

 

WAR (out of 53 SPs with 950+ IP since 2006)

10) Beckett  27.2

13) Lester    26.0

20) Lackey  23.1

29) Dempster  18.1

30) Blanton      17.9

31) Millwood   17.9

 

Dempster vs Beckett in WAR:

2007-2012 (23 with 950+ IP):

9) Beckett  25.1

20) Dempster  18.1

 

2008-2012 (34 with 850 +):

16) Beckett  18.6

17) DFempster 18.1

 

2009-2012 (39 with 700+)

20) Beckett   13.6

24) Dempster  12.9

 

2010-2012 (71 with 450+)

44) Beckett  8.1

36) Dempster  9.2

 

2011-2012 (59 with 350+)

27) Beckett  6.6

34) Dempster  6.0

 

Pretty close.

 

 

 

 

I prefer ERC# & WHIP myself, in that order. WHIPs a little deceiving because you can set the record of WHIP with a 0.5 and still lose if they're all HRs, hence I prefer ERC# & maybe ERC+. To each his own.

In response to nhsteven's comment:

 

I prefer ERC# & WHIP myself, in that order. WHIPs a little deceiving because you can set the record of WHIP with a 0.5 and still lose if they're all HRs, hence I prefer ERC# & maybe ERC+. To each his own.

 

OPS against is a good tool as well.

 

Career BA/OBP/SLG/OPS against:

Beckett:    .244/.305/.396/.701

Dempster: .258/.340/.410/.750

 

Josh also has a pretty impressive playoff portfolio (especially up to 2007).

 

His 4.39 ERA at Fenway really raised his overall career ERA of 3.91.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

 

In response to nhsteven's comment:

 

I prefer ERC# & WHIP myself, in that order. WHIPs a little deceiving because you can set the record of WHIP with a 0.5 and still lose if they're all HRs, hence I prefer ERC# & maybe ERC+. To each his own.

 

OPS against is a good tool as well.

 

Career BA/OBP/SLG/OPS against:

Beckett:    .244/.305/.396/.701

Dempster: .258/.340/.410/.750

 

Josh also has a pretty impressive playoff portfolio (especially up to 2007).

 

His 4.39 ERA at Fenway really raised his overall career ERA of 3.91.

 

 

Josh also has a pretty impressive playoff portfolio (especially up to 2007).

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Yes

This post has been removed.

In response to Triumph-'s comment:

Lifetime 14-8, 5.53 ERA v the Yankees.

In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

Does that include the 16.1 IP, 8 Hits, 2 ER  (1.10 ERA) and 19 Ks in the

2003 World Series?

 

 

In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

Stats are a b!tch sometimes

This post has been removed.

In response to moonslav59's comment:

Yes career, includes Beckett's pre-popeye chicken stats.

Life time record of 4-2 era of 5.66 in Yankee Stadium/s

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=beckejo02&year=Career&t=p

It's amazing how this thread has returned to baseball in pike's absence...

In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

 

 

Hey everyone   :)

Predict the AL East standings for 2013.

I think for the first time since 2000, no team in the AL East will win 90 games since all five teams will be beating each other up.

I still think that two teams from the AL East will make the playoffs.  So I pick Toronto to win the division and Boston to earn a wild card berth (I think Detroit will win the AL Central, Oakland will win the AL West, and the Angels will earn a wild card berth).  

Toronto 89-73

Boston  87-75

Yankees 86-76

Tampa Bay 84-78

Baltimore 81-81

 

 

 

"Hope is the thing with feathers. That perches in the soul..."

Wildly optimistic, Ice-cream. I see the Sox finishing 3rd at best. Ben did not solve the problems in the starting rotation.

In response to ThatWasMe's comment:

TWM, those numbers for Beckett are regular season only.  If you click on the ballpark it gives you the breakdown by year.

If you add Game 6 of the 2003 WS Beckett gave up 22 ER in 44 IP at YS for an ERA of 4.50. 

This post has been removed.

In response to HelloItsMeAgain1's comment:

Regardless, beckett was not quite the Yankee killer that the nation likes to believe he was.

He gained that reputation for what he did in that WS, after that the Yanks hit him pretty good.

[/QUOTE]

The Yankees pounded him silly several times.  OTOH in 2011 he was 4-0 against them with a 1.85 ERA.  Like I say he was an amazingly erratic SOB.  When he was on he was one of the best.  When he was off he was brutal.

In response to Ice-Cream's comment:

 Well, they do have Melky Cabrera now.