Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    We need to get rid of Lackey. Getting something in return is a plus. One of the best ways is probably swapping bad contracts. One idea is to swap Lackey with the Angels' Vernon Wells. With that move our lineup could look like this:

    Lineup:
    Ellsbury CF
    Pedroia 2B
    Gonzalez 1B
    Youk 3B
    Crawford LF
    Wells RF
    Lavarnway DH
    Salty C
    Scutaro SS

    Backups:
    Aviles: Gets a lot of time in the outfield (if he learns to play it) and plays at third when Youkilis is at DH
    Lowrie: Should play against almost all lefties whether it is at 3B, SS, 2B, or 1B
    Other backups fill in

    SP:
    Lester
    Beckett
    Buchholz
    Buerhle
    Darvish?/Aceves?/Webb?

    Bullpen:
    Papelbon
    Bard
    after this it is just a matter of filling in the spots

    With Youkilis getting rest his numbers should go up as well as his health. Crawford will do better. Wells may not be awesome but he has power and may actually be able to help us unlike Lackey. Darvish looks good and Webb may be a good signing. Papi leaves and Papelbon stays.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    One unlikely but possible scenario:


    Sign: Papi, Paps, Scut, VTek, Wake and Darvish

    Trade: 
    Carl Crawford (12:$19.5M, 13:$20M, 14:$20.25M, 15:$20.5M, 16:$20.75M, 17:$21M)   
    Bobby Jenks (12:$6M)

    To LAA

    For: 
    Vernon Wells ( 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M



    (Assuming STL loses Pujols)
    Trade: 
    Kevin Youkilis: (12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout))
    John Lackey: (12:$15.25M, 13:$15.25M, 14:$15.25M & 2015 club option at Major League minimum salary if Lackey misses significant time with surgery for pre-existing elbow injury in 2010-14)
    Jarrod Saltalamacchia ( 3 arbs)
    Anthony Ranaudo, Josh Reddick, Lars Anderson, and Jose Iglesias


    To StL

    For: 
    Matt Holliday (12-16: $17M annually, 17:$17M club option ($1M buyout))
    Yadier Molina (12:$7M club option ($0.75M buyout))

    2012 Sox:

    C   Y. Molina  VTek  (Lava)
    1B AGon  Lowrie
    2B Pedroia Lowrie
    3B Aviles  Lowrie  (Middlebrooks)
    SS Scutaro  Aviles
    LF Holliday DMac
    CF Ellsbury Kalish
    RF V Wells  Brentz
    DH Papi  Lavarnway

    S1 Beckett
    S2 Lester
    S3 Buchholtz
    S4 Darvish
    S5 Wakefield/Dice K
    S6 Doubront/Tazawa

    R1 Papelbon
    R2 Bard
    R3 Aceves
    R4 Morales
    R5 Albers
    R6 Atchison/Bowden




     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I like the idea of acquiring Molina...but if StL loses Pujols why would they give up Holliday? Also, I say keep Crawford over trading him for Wells.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Yeah, Youk does not replace Pujols and Holliday much at all: good point.

    How about Youk, Lackey and Salty for Y. Molina, & Kyle Lohse
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Vernon Wells isn't a good idea, he is being passed around like hot cakes and all because of his contract.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I didn't suggest the deal because I liked Wells; I suggested it to save money from CC's deal over the last 3 years of his deal.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I don't think anyone liked the money of Crawford's deal -- but that being said I'll take Crawford and his upside over Wells. Wells is a player with a declining skill set. Crawford just had a bad season, I expect him to improve this upcoming season. If he reverts to 75% of his former self that's a 0.280 avg, 15 hrs, 70 rbis, and 40 steals. And to be honest, I expect him to be even better than that.

    Secondly, I really like the idea of acquiring Yadi to be the Sox catcher. He is IMO the best defensive catcher in the game and has become a solid hitter as well. He has an option and I expect the Cards to exercise it. I don't see him being available, but I would love for that to be the case.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbair. Show kbair's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : you'd get less than nothing for those 3...reddick is a utility 4th outfielder at best,youk is an expensive salary dump and lackey and his contract is the sox problem till eternity.Talking in the same setence about felix and these 3 is just plain silly even if you threw in the entire sox farm system.
    Posted by iamme17[/QUOTE]


    instead of posting all of the stats and how they break down, i will post that reddick's 1.9 WAR was better than the following names:
    nelson cruz (ALCS MVP)
    brennan boesch
    kubel (there is talk of trading for him)
    ichiro suzuki
    magglio ordonez

    and was within .6 WAR of these names:
    werth, hunter, markakis, dejesus, heyward

    any of those guys a fourth outfielder when healthy?

    RS outfield:
    ells, craw, reddick, kalish, aviles
    unless we can add swisher or cuddyer
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

     I'll take Crawford and his upside over Wells. Wells is a player with a declining skill set.

    I would too, but the money disparity more than makes up the difference.

    The choice is...

    6 years of Crawford

    or 

    3 years of Wells and about $60 more million to spend on several free agents or player extensions over the next 6 years
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kbair. Show kbair's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    granderson had a down year his first year under the northeast microscope-- crawford actually hit better this year than granderson did last year. let's not give up on crawford. it is not his fault that he makes so much money.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from sinjin5000. Show sinjin5000's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    get use to the fact that henry isn't bring Ortiz back, he can't field, can't run, he's no leader, and now he's a malcontent, 

    Wakefeild, vertek, and youk need to go too, 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from iamme17. Show iamme17's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : instead of posting all of the stats and how they break down, i will post that reddick's 1.9 WAR was better than the following names: nelson cruz (ALCS MVP) brennan boesch kubel (there is talk of trading for him) ichiro suzuki magglio ordonez and was within .6 WAR of these names: werth, hunter, markakis, dejesus, heyward any of those guys a fourth outfielder when healthy? RS outfield: ells, craw, reddick, kalish, aviles unless we can add swisher or cuddyer
    Posted by kbair[/QUOTE] Those numbers reflect a small sample size which includes an unreal 3 week hitting streak.Now throw in his numbers in triple a this year,.230 average, to get a complete year of Reddick and no-one would make the mistake of comparing him to Cruz.Reddick is a helluva lot cheaper than Cruz but if the sox offered an even trade of reddick for cruz they'd be laughed at by every team in baseball.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from antiqueman1. Show antiqueman1's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : Kind of harsh on Youk, aren't you? He played until the pain of doing so was unbearable. He was in the dugout lending moral support throughout September. He had a minor disagreement in 2010 on the Ellsbury rehabbing in Arizona issue. No big deal. This year he shared a locker right next to Ellsbury and they got along fine with each other.
    Posted by UticaClub[/QUOTE]

    Just being real. Youk has missed quite a few games over last 2 yrs. And did he also get in a scuffle with Manny. If he can't stay healthy he might have to be considered in a trade.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    No need to try and trade low stock in 2012. Retain the following pitchers under contract:

    Beckett (solid year despite soap opera)
    Lester (solid year despite soap opera)
    Buch (conservative shut down should lead to decent season quality IP)
    Lackey (despite absurd contract offer mistake, was adequate bottom rotation starter in 2010 and did beat the Yankees twice. No reason why this fat faced value bust cannot handle bottom rotation spot. Still young enough and career averages show he is a capable of bottom rotation profile. Silly to write him off and allow another team to get a likely 2012 improvement over 2011 debacle)

    Team should obtain starter depth as follows:

    Bard .75M should be converted to a starter if FA market for Papelbon is no more than 2 years and 26 to 30M. 

    Aceves 1M should obviously be retained under arbitration control.

    Miller 3M option should be declined, but he should be offered one year MLB contract at 1M plus up to 500K in stair step potential bonus for more than 12 starts. (decent 2011 road numbers, and can work out of pen as well as start)

    Bedard should be offered 1.25 M plus 1M in stair step potential bonus (11 to 12 starts over 12 starts)

    Jeff Francis and Chien-Ming Wang should be offered 1M minor league contracts with 500K in stair step potential bonus for more than 12 starts) with player opt to FA if not on major league opening day roster.     

    Doubrant and Weiland AAA complete the starter depth for 2012.

    Bedard is likely to return to Left coast, but between Miller, Bedard Francis and Wang, budget can be allocated with attrative bonus to FA contract at least 2 or 3 of these profiles if one or 2 gets an offer that is way too high on risk-value scale.  

    Low ball offers of 2 years and 16 for CJ Wilson and 1 year and 10M for Buehrle, and then bluff.

    Wakefield was the face of the 2011 record collapse. His cost was nearly 4 million dollars. If Francis and Wang find better offers, offer Wakefield a minor league contract at the minimum 4 or 5K. Wakefield has no MLB contract market, so do not make the same mistake as InEpstein made by bidding against himself for a player who has been washed up since 2009 2nd half.

    Decline Wheeler option and offer 1M and 1 year.

    Jenks to set-up if Bard is starter for 2012 and Papelbon market is 2 years and 30M or less. Bard to closer if Papelbon is 3 year market.

    Pen:

    Papelbon or Bard
    Jenks
    Aceves
    Morales
    Fill other 3 pen spots and pen depth with standard minor league contracts spring training "tryouts/invitations" and AAA call-ups

    Position players:

    Crawford
    Pedroia
    Agon
    Kemp (via trade for Ellsbury 6-8M x 2 Kemp 10-12 2012 extend 21M x 7)    
    Ortiz (1 year 11M mutal option 6M year 2) 
    Youk (Middlebrooks injury call-up in Youk's final contract year)
    Hernandez (1 Year 3M 2nd Year 3M buyout 1.5M)
    Reddick .5M /Kalish .50M 
    Aviles .75M/Scutaro   

    Bench: Salty 1M or Lavarway spring training winner if equal Lavarnway AAA 
               Scutaro will likely exercise 3M player option
               Kalish/Reddick .5M 
               McDonald or Jackson .5M

    1. Beckett 15.75M
    2. Lester 7.625M
    3. Lackey 15.25M
    4. Buch    3.5M

    5. DiceK 10M 6 & 7 Miller 1M Bedard 1.25M  Francis 1M  Wang 1M = 2.25M to 3.75M
     
    8 & 9 Weiland .50 and Doubrant .50 = 1M

    10. Papelbon = 13M
    11. Jenks = 6M
    12. Bard = .75M
    13. Aceves = 1M
    14. Wheeler = 1M
    15. Morales = .50M
    16. Retread/AAA = .50M

    17. Crawford = 19.5M
    18. Pedroia =  8M
    19. AGon = 21M
    20. Kemp = 10M
    21. Ortiz = 11M
    22. Youk = 12M
    23. Hernandez = 3M
    24. Reddick or Kalish = .5M
    25. Scutaro = 3M

    26. Salty 1M
    27. Aviles .75M
    28. Reddick or Kalish .5M
    29. Mack or Jackson  .5M

    30-40 = 4-5M

    = 165.875M

    DiceK 10M Youk 12M and Ortiz 11M would come off 2013 books = 33M. Kemp would increase about 11M. Middlebrooks would likely be ready to replace Youk at near zero cost.   

    If Lackey has a decent 2012, try and deal his contract. 2013 FA market has younger and better value options.
     
    Red Sox should try and get one of the Cubs better pitching prospects as compensation.

    Hope Varitek signs elsewhere and CBA supp pick can be used to draft a starting pitching prospect.

    Trade Lowrie for the best pitching prospect the market will bear.

    Do not promote Cherington, hopefully he would go with Epstein. Hire Thad Levine from Rangers.

    Try and hire Bochy as manager or fall back to Martinez.

    Hire Hickey as new pitching coach.

    Implement no facial and long hair and booze on the job policy. 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I would not sign Pap or Papi, nor Tek, Wake and I would look for a bad contract to exchange for Lackey in addition I would be looking for a trade partner to take Beckett for a starting pitcher---perhaps back to the Astros or the Rangers if they lose out on Wilson and Sabathia.

    I would look to sign or trade for Rafael Bettancourt of the Rockies (I believe a former Sox farmhand) as 2004 Idiots suggested.

    This may be a time to show some confidence in the Sox farm system and bring in a guy like Middlebrooks and perhaps 1 or 2 starting pitchers.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Ells CF
    Peddy 2B
    Agon 1B
    Youk DH
    A-Ram 3B
    CC LF
    Cuddyer RF
    Salty C
    Scutaro SS

    Bench: Aviles IF/OF, Lowrie UTIL, Iggy SS, Kalish OF, Lavarnway C/DH
    * Middlesbrook possible early call-up either Aviles or Lowrie sent down depends on their early performance

    Beckett
    Lester
    Bucholz
    Edwin Jackson
    Buehrle

    BP: Aceves (THE MAN) Long Relief, Doubront Long relief, Morales 6-7, Jenks 6-7, Broxton SU, Bard SU, Paps CL

    About 80-85% accuracy I say...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]I say enough negativity. Past is past. Let's start dreaming of the 2012 Championship Boston Red Sox. I remember the '67 Red Sox mixing veterans and rookies in their lineup. I say let a couple of our rookies start. Please give Ben your suggestions. Our 2012 Red Sox Starting Lineup (9): 1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF 2. Carl Crawford, LF 3. Dustin Pedroia, 2B 4. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B 5. Will Middlebrooks 3B 6. David Ortiz, DH 7. Ryan Kalish RF 8. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C 9. Marco Scutaro, SS Bench (5): Jed Lowrie, Utility; Mike Aviles, Utility; Josh Reddick, OF; Ryan Lavarnway, C; Brad Hawpe, OF/1B Starting Rotation (5): Josh Beckett, RHP; Jon Lester, LHP; Clay Buchholz, RHP; Daniel Bard RHP; Alfredo Aceves, RHP Bullpen (6): Jonathan Papelbon, RHP; Felix Doubront LHP; Bobby Jenks, RHP; Heath Bell, RHP; Rafael Betancourt, RHP; Franklin Morales LHP
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Ben Cherington will be told to be as creative as possible.     John Henry has a bad taste in his mouth from overpriced free agents.     Not so sure Heath Bell AND Papelbon can be signed.     Bell would have to agree to be a set-up man seeing as he's been a closer.    Utility infielders can be found that will be a better fit than the fragile Lowrie.  
    Cherington may wait to see what shakes out from rosters at the end of spring training.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from ArtWikle. Show ArtWikle's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I agree with the thought of Lackey for Wells as that gives the Sox the right handed bat needed and a right fielder.
    Lineup
    Ellsbury
    Crawford
    Gonzalez
    Youk
    Ortiz
    Wells
    Pedroia
    Lavarnway/Saltalamacchia
    Scutaro

    Starting Pitching
    Beckett
    Lester
    Buchholz
    Aceves
    Trade Lars Anderson and Josh Reddick for a starting pitcher.

    Bullpen
    Papelbon
    Bard
    Morales

    Varitek and Wakefield are gone hopefully minor league coaches.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]I agree with the thought of Lackey for Wells as that gives the Sox the right handed bat needed and a right fielder. Lineup Ellsbury Crawford Gonzalez Youk Ortiz Wells Pedroia Lavarnway/Saltalamacchia Scutaro Starting Pitching Beckett Lester Buchholz Aceves Trade Lars Anderson and Josh Reddick for a starting pitcher. Bullpen Papelbon Bard Morales Varitek and Wakefield are gone hopefully minor league coaches.
    Posted by ArtWikle[/QUOTE]

    You wanna put CC in the 2nd instead of Peddy?????? wow...
    and do know how much Wells is getting paid?????? wow again... CC and Wells in OF will the most expensive OFs combined in the league... Just two of them... No way he's coming to Boston...
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    ... No way he's coming to Boston...

    Unless they trade Lackey back to the Angels for him.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]I say enough negativity. Past is past. Let's start dreaming of the 2012 Championship Boston Red Sox. I remember the '67 Red Sox mixing veterans and rookies in their lineup. I say let a couple of our rookies start. Please give Ben your suggestions. Our 2012 Red Sox Starting Lineup (9): 1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF 2. Carl Crawford, LF 3. Dustin Pedroia, 2B 4. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B 5. Will Middlebrooks 3B 6. David Ortiz, DH 7. Ryan Kalish RF 8. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C 9. Marco Scutaro, SS Bench (5): Jed Lowrie, Utility; Mike Aviles, Utility; Josh Reddick, OF; Ryan Lavarnway, C; Brad Hawpe, OF/1B Starting Rotation (5): Josh Beckett, RHP; Jon Lester, LHP; Clay Buchholz, RHP; Daniel Bard RHP; Alfredo Aceves, RHP Bullpen (6): Jonathan Papelbon, RHP; Felix Doubront LHP; Bobby Jenks, RHP; Heath Bell, RHP; Rafael Betancourt, RHP; Franklin Morales LHP
    Posted by 2004Idiots[/QUOTE]

    Ryan Kalish starting in RF?  Are you nuts?  He missed all of last year and what has he really done so far to deserve a starting spot in RF?  What are his ML stats?  Or minor league stats for that matter?  Will Middlebrooks is not ready for the majors.  He needs at least a year at AAA.  Reddick is not good enough to be the fourth OF.  Lowrie needs to be traded.  Too brittle.  Where is Youkilis in this lineup?  Who did they get for him?  This team is worse than last years.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from splendidsplinterteddyballgame. Show splendidsplinterteddyballgame's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]I like the idea of acquiring Molina...but if StL loses Pujols why would they give up Holliday? Also, I say keep Crawford over trading him for Wells.
    Posted by TitleTown11[/QUOTE]


    St. Louis is NEVER going to trade Molina as long as he is good.  NO WAY.  LaRussa loves him like a son and he is an all-star catcher.  You don't trade those types of guys.  Forget about it.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Slip Cuddyer in after CC and Mark Reynolds in after AGon
    Ells----CF
    Pedroia-2 b
    CC----RF
    Cuddyer---LF
    AGon---1 b
    Mark Reynolds---DH
    Salty----C 
    Middlebrooks----3 b
    Scutaro---SS

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I agree with one of the poster here saying Papi could play for the Bluejays as well for the former Boston's coach who is now a manager for the team.  But the biggest question is that do Papi want to live in Canada?   That is the problem for most free agents.  They are not too comfortable living in up north in nowadays.  That is why we dont see often top 20 to top 30 best available free agent heading to Toronto. Toronto get their players via trade most of the times!!

    So it is more likely he ll go elsewhere except going to the Yankees!
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxnsl. Show maxnsl's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : St. Louis is NEVER going to trade Molina as long as he is good.  NO WAY.  LaRussa loves him like a son and he is an all-star catcher.  You don't trade those types of guys.  Forget about it.
    Posted by splendidsplinterteddyballgame[/QUOTE] At last a voice of reason! Molina is not coming to Boston, Middlebrooks is going to be in Rhode Island. Kemp is not going to leave the Dodgers etc. etc. I would love to see us get rid of Beckett though!
     
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