Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Vernon Wells isnt coming to Boston.  He is making more than 25 millions dollars a year.  By trading bad contract for a bad contract, that mean Boston will be paying another 7 millions dollars more on the bad contract.  Better off to trade to the Cubs for Zambaro who is making 19 millions dollars a year, but only have two years left in his contract!!


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Splendid sees it all! A poster after my own heart!
    While we're at it, what is the fascination with Lowrie?
    He can't stay on the field, and stinks when he is.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from myaim45. Show myaim45's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Line up-

    Ells-CF
    Pedroia-2B
    A-Gon-1B
    Ortiz-DH
    Crawford-LF
    Youk-3B
    Cuddyer/Sizemore/Kalish-RF
    Scutaro-SS / Jimmy Rollins (if availible)
    Salty/ any other decent/ in shape catcher who plays good D.

    If I'm the GM I would be okay with this line-up. No major changes from last year, and yes I would play 3 lefties in a row. I don't care, I've got to show that I trust Crawford in that 5 spot. Utilizing him in the 5th slot creates a lot of interesting options. I would also see what it would take to get sizemore and see if its a good enough risk/reward/

    Starting Pitching:

    Beckett-1
    Lester-2
    Bucholtz-3
    Aceves-4
    Brandon Webb? Ryan Dempster? Scott Kazmir? Jeff Francis? What made them good, what will it take to get that back?


    Relief:

    Closer- Pap
    Set-up- Bard
    I would fill in the rest of the bullpen with character guys. A bullpen with good guys are fun for the whole team.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    Vernon Wells isnt coming to Boston.  He is making more than 25 millions dollars a year.  By trading bad contract for a bad contract, that mean Boston will be paying another 7 millions dollars more on the bad contract.  Better off to trade to the Cubs for Zambaro who is making 19 millions dollars a year, but only have two years left in his contract!!
    Posted by GoUconn13

    I'm not sure where you get your numbers. I get mine from Cots.

    Wells does not make $25M a year. He makes...
    12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M  Total: $63M

    Crawford makes: 
    12:$19.5M, 13:$20M, 14:$20.25M, 15:$20.5M, 16:$20.75M, 17:$21M  ~$123M

    Lackey makes12:$15.25M, 13:$15.25M, 14:$15.25M  Total: ~$46M 

    If we traded Lackey for Wells, we'd be paying about $5.75 more a year.
    (I'm not sure I'd do this one even if the took Jenks with Lackey at $6M/1)
    Perhaps the Angels would kicj in some cash to even the money out.

    If we traded Crawford for Wells, we'd save money short term and longterm.



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Anyone even suggesting Wakefield and Varitek getting FA major league contracts and on 25 man active roster for 2012 is completely delusional.  Unlikely new management will dare go back to that well.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Anyone who wanted Doubront to start while he was on the DL, Miller to start while he was walking one per inning in AAA, and then Weiland because his stats were inflated due to a "brawl game" is the true delusional clown.

    Want more?

    "Jake should be our 4th OF'er and Cam the Ft starter."
    "Jake will never have a season like Coco's 2 seasons in Cleveland."
    "Jake can never sustain a .330 OBP for a whole season"
    "Jake will revert to his career norm"
    "Jake will hit more HRs while playng LF"
    "Jake's inside out swing..."
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    False. Doubrant was not on DL when I said to spot start him.

    Miller was quite decent on the road. 

    Weiland only had a few sporadic starts and one was solid, the other decent and you wanted the fat 45 year old loser to chase a silly clown's record.

    Red Sox OF stunk v LP. Ellsbury and Crawford, a mistake, should have split time with Cameron, another Theo written off contract. 

    1 season is not an average.

    I never said .330 OBP for a single season. I said career average would be lucky to end up over .330's. You claimed a .390 OBP.

    Career norm will not be decided off one season.

    Ellsbury didnt play LF, moron. He has hit 32 hr in 2 years.

    Bad swings don''t work well long term.

    Want more............

    Twins cant afford Mauer
    Acquire Adam Dunn
    Lowell is insurance for Youk
    Offer Lackey massive FA contract
    Lowrie has proven pretzel naysayers wrong (Lowrie went on DL a few weeks later)

    You are a moron for even suggesting Wakefield as the #5 starter. It aint gonna happen because that train wreck has just left town.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : I'm not sure where you get your numbers. I get mine from Cots. Wells does not make $25M a year. He makes... 12 :$21M,  13 :$21M,  14 :$21M   Total: $63M Crawford makes:  12 :$19.5M,  13 :$20M,  14 :$20.25M,  15 :$20.5M,  16 :$20.75M,  17 :$21M  ~$123M Lackey makes :  12 :$15.25M,  13 :$15.25M,  14 :$15.25M   Total: ~$46M  If we traded Lackey for Wells, we'd be paying about $5.75 more a year. (I'm not sure I'd do this one even if the took Jenks with Lackey at $6M/1) Perhaps the Angels would kicj in some cash to even the money out. If we traded Crawford for Wells, we'd save money short term and longterm.
    Posted by moonslav59


    When i posted the Wells for Lackey deal i did not necessarily mean straight up one for the other. I think we could add in a prospect and easily get them to give us some cash in the deal so we are not losing money. The idea is to get rid of Lackey whose performance can be easily and cheaply replaced and or improved upon. And in return we get a solid defensive outfielder who has some pop with some potential to actually put together a decent season.

    Lackey and his excuses are not made for Boston and i fear he will not get much better. But if he were in the Angels' organization where he had success, i feel that he may actually have positive results.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    One must be really dense to suggest trading Lackey after 2011 debacle. 2012 will be better and increase near zero trade value. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GhostofTito. Show GhostofTito's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Yes, let's have another year of Lackey throwing bombs, grousing at his teammates, staring down his manager, and blowing beer farts and ballgames while guzzling and chowing on fried chicken in the clubhouse.
    Oh, and pitching like garbage, too.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    One must be really dense to suggest trading Lackey after 2011 debacle. 2012 will be better and increase near zero trade value. 
    Posted by hankwilliams


    Yes but Wells is just as poised for a comeback. And i see Lackey chances of rebounding in Boston as far less than rebounding somewhere else. He is not made for the Red Sox' press and fans. He is full of excuses and he keeps on being scrutinized for his play while he is too full of himself to just admit that he was bad. I have a feeling that this pressure will affect Lackey's ability to rebound. Wells on the other hand fills a needed hole and will not be scrutinized as much because we are aware of what we are getting and his entrance is paired with the joy of Lackey's exit. I believe that Lackey can get better in 2012, just not in a Red Sox uniform.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxforlife22. Show soxforlife22's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/10/service-time-breakdown-for-mike-trout.html

    The angels have too many players and not enough positions. Im sure they would field offers for Wells

    Also i am sure that Lackey could improve upon Pineiro's numbers who he would theoretically be taking the place of. Pineiro posted a 5.13 ERA and went 7-7. Pineiro will presumably be lost in free agency so Lackey could fill that spot in the rotation

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    No chance the Angels take Lackey back for 2012. Wells contract for Lackey has zero chance of taking place.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Here's a new one...
    (I realize LA is loaded with 1Bmen, but...)

    Trade: 
    Lackey      12:$15.25M, 13:$15.25M, 14:$15.25M
    Youkilis     12:$12M, 13:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
    Jenks         12: $6M 
    Doubront or Weiland
    Reddick or Kalish

    Total: 12: $33M, 13: $28M, 14: $15M,  TOTAL: $76M

    For: 
    Wells      12:$21M,     13:$21M, 14:$21M
    Haren     12:$12.75M, 13:$15.5M club option ($3.5M buyout)


    Total: 12: $34M, 13: $37M, 14: 21M, TOTAL: $92M 
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Red Sox do not need Vernon Wells problem.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    So, softy... you have $30M to spend and fill these slots. Enlighten us with your brilliance. I will copy and paste and save for you to deny it next year.

    SP
    DH
    SS
    RF
    RP
    SP
    #2C
    RP

    Name names and contract costs.

    Let's see if you can do it without "going light" somewhere...

    like Bard as the closer.
    like Wake as the #6 starter.
    like VTek as the #2 catcher.
    like Reddick or Kalish in RF.
    like Youk or Lava at DH.
    like Iggy or Aviles at SS
    like Wally as the #5 starter.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    No need to try and trade low stock in 2012. Retain the following pitchers under contract:

    Beckett (solid year despite soap opera)
    Lester (solid year despite soap opera)
    Buch (conservative shut down should lead to decent season quality IP)
    Lackey (despite absurd contract offer mistake, was adequate bottom rotation starter in 2010 and did beat the Yankees twice. No reason why this fat faced value bust cannot handle bottom rotation spot. Still young enough and career averages show he is a capable of bottom rotation profile. Silly to write him off and allow another team to get a likely 2012 improvement over 2011 debacle)

    Team should obtain starter depth as follows:

    Bard .75M should be converted to a starter if FA market for Papelbon is no more than 2 years and 26 to 30M.

    Aceves 1M should obviously be retained under arbitration control.

    Miller 3M option should be declined, but he should be offered one year MLB contract at 1M plus up to 500K in stair step potential bonus for more than 12 starts. (decent 2011 road numbers, and can work out of pen as well as start)

    Bedard should be offered 1.25 M plus 1M in stair step potential bonus (11 to 12 starts over 12 starts)

    Jeff Francis and Chien-Ming Wang should be offered 1M minor league contracts with 500K in stair step potential bonus for more than 12 starts) with player opt to FA if not on major league opening day roster.

    Doubrant and Weiland AAA complete the starter depth for 2012.

    Bedard is likely to return to Left coast, but between Miller, Bedard Francis and Wang, budget can be allocated with attrative bonus to FA contract at least 2 or 3 of these profiles if one or 2 gets an offer that is way too high on risk-value scale.

    Low ball offers of 2 years and 16 for CJ Wilson and 1 year and 10M for Buehrle, and then bluff.

    Wakefield was the face of the 2011 record collapse. His cost was nearly 4 million dollars. If Francis and Wang find better offers, offer Wakefield a minor league contract at the minimum 4 or 5K. Wakefield has no MLB contract market, so do not make the same mistake as InEpstein made by bidding against himself for a player who has been washed up since 2009 2nd half.

    Decline Wheeler option and offer 1M and 1 year.

    Jenks to set-up if Bard is starter for 2012 and Papelbon market is 2 years and 30M or less. Bard to closer if Papelbon is 3 year market.

    Pen:

    Papelbon or Bard
    Jenks
    Aceves
    Morales
    Fill other 3 pen spots and pen depth with standard minor league contracts spring training "tryouts/invitations" and AAA call-ups

    Position players:

    Crawford
    Pedroia
    Agon
    Kemp (via trade for Ellsbury 6-8M x 2 Kemp 10-12 2012 extend 21M x 7)
    Ortiz (1 year 11M mutal option 6M year 2)
    Youk (Middlebrooks injury call-up in Youk's final contract year)
    Hernandez (1 Year 3M 2nd Year 3M buyout 1.5M)
    Reddick .5M /Kalish .50M
    Aviles .75M/Scutaro

    Bench: Salty 1M or Lavarway spring training winner if equal Lavarnway AAA
    Scutaro will likely exercise 3M player option
    Kalish/Reddick .5M
    McDonald or Jackson .5M

    1. Beckett 15.75M
    2. Lester 7.625M
    3. Lackey 15.25M
    4. Buch 3.5M

    5. DiceK 10M 6 & 7 Miller 1M Bedard 1.25M Francis 1M Wang 1M = 2.25M to 3.75M

    8 & 9 Weiland .50 and Doubrant .50 = 1M

    10. Papelbon = 13M
    11. Jenks = 6M
    12. Bard = .75M
    13. Aceves = 1M
    14. Wheeler = 1M
    15. Morales = .50M
    16. Retread/AAA = .50M

    17. Crawford = 19.5M
    18. Pedroia = 8M
    19. AGon = 21M
    20. Kemp = 10M
    21. Ortiz = 11M
    22. Youk = 12M
    23. Hernandez = 3M
    24. Reddick or Kalish = .5M
    25. Scutaro = 3M

    26. Salty 1M
    27. Aviles .75M
    28. Reddick or Kalish .5M
    29. Mack or Jackson .5M

    30-40 = 4-5M

    = 165.875M

    DiceK 10M Youk 12M and Ortiz 11M would come off 2013 books = 33M. Kemp would increase about 11M. Middlebrooks would likely be ready to replace Youk at near zero cost.

    If Lackey has a decent 2012, try and deal his contract. 2013 FA market has younger and better value options.

    Red Sox should try and get one of the Cubs better pitching prospects as compensation.

    Hope Varitek signs elsewhere and CBA supp pick can be used to draft a starting pitching prospect.

    Trade Lowrie for the best pitching prospect the market will bear.

    Do not promote Cherington, hopefully he would go with Epstein. Hire Thad Levine from Rangers.

    Try and hire Bochy as manager or fall back to Martinez.

    Hire Hickey as new pitching coach.

    Implement no facial and long hair and booze on the job policy.                                   
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    OK, got it saved for next year's laughs.
    This is one of your alltime biggest jokes.
    You are living in the Twilight Zone if you think these guys will sign for what you think they will.

    1) You hated on Scutty for 2 years and now want him back? You sid his Toronot year was a fluke and bashed me for saying he'd have a combined 2 years at numbers between his career norm and his Totonto last year.
    2) Why would Scutty take the player option at $3M when if he doesn't he gets the $1.5M buyout and gets $4-5M elsewhere plus the $1.5? This is an epic joke.
    3) You want Lackey back, but Wake gone... brilliant.
    4) Bard to starter: see Joba.
    5) papelbon for a 2 years deal... dream on...totally unrealistic. I knew you couldn't come up with a plan that could actually be a real plan.
    6) Wheeler's not taking $1M.
    7) You bashed Jenks and now want him as the new Bard. Wonderful!
    8) 
      " Low ball offers of 2 years and 16 for CJ Wilson 1 year and 10M for Buehrle, and then bluff."
        Makes no sense at all. Those offers are jokes not bluffs.

      9) You Jake for Kemp deal is a fantasy
      10) Kemps a FA after 2012. 
          $20M/2 with a 3rd year $8M with $2M buyouy
      11) You called me a racist for saying we should offer Papi
           making it essentially a $22M/2 year deal. Your offer is 
           at best $17M/2. You racist!!!!
       12) Hernandez is now at the age you beagn calling Vtek too old
             and his decline began. (I do like RamHern though)
      13) You used actual 2012 numbers not average salary which 
           is used for luxury tax figures.
      14) You do realize that to get the supp pick for VTek, 
            we have to offer him arbitration, which he will accept
            and make about $2M in 2012 on our roster, right?
        15) Even if all you say here came true, we'd win less than '11.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Implement no facial and long hair and booze on the job policy.     

    ...and blast Hank Williams' in the clubhouse dusk to dawn.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Bard as a starter...He'll have a pitching life expectancy that'll make Hank Williams' life look like that of Methuselah's.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    LOL!

    Is it any wonder why softy chose Hank as his new ID?
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    1) You hated on Scutty for 2 years and now want him back? You sid his Toronot year was a fluke and bashed me for saying he'd have a combined 2 years at numbers between his career norm and his Totonto last year.

    Scutaro contract was a mistake. Has nothing to do with reality that he practically acontrols weather he stays, unlike loser Wakefield and Varitek.

    2) Why would Scutty take the player option at $3M when if he doesn't he gets the $1.5M buyout and gets $4-5M elsewhere plus the $1.5? This is an epic joke.

    He isn't going to get a single offer of 4-5M elsewhere. Silly to spend 1.5M when he exercises player option. Scutaro will be lucky to get an offer more than 2-3M.   
    3) You want Lackey back, but Wake gone... brilliant.

    You moron. Lackey is under contract and untradeable. Wake is a total joke and a FA no one will want for more than a minor league contract
    !
    4) Bard to starter: see Joba.

    Two different players.

    5) papelbon for a 2 years deal... dream on...totally unrealistic. I knew you couldn't come up with a plan that could actually be a real plan.

    Moron, I said if market was 2 year deal and detailed papelbon departure plans. In reality, 3 year 13-15M deal for Papelbon is dubious.
       
    6) Wheeler's not taking $1M.

    I never said he would, moron. I said offer him 1M. In reality, age and mileage, he might not do much better and he is from New England. You bashed Wheeler and praised Timmy T-Ball, moron.

    7) You bashed Jenks and now want him as the new Bard. Wonderful!

    Moron, Jenks is under InEpstein contract and zero trade value. It is called 6M! I didnt want this lard to start with, as you did. I outlined immediate contract offer to Putz. InEpstein always waited around like an idiot.

    8) " Low ball offers of 2 years and 16 for CJ Wilson 1 year and 10M for Buehrle, and then bluff."
    Makes no sense at all. Those offers are jokes not bluffs.

    No, they are low ball offers. They are designed to fake interest and bluff follow-up increase  trump offers to bag idiots like InEpstein.

    Buehrle is old and high mileage. Not worth risk of 2 year deal and certainly not worth a Slackey base for one year. CJ Wilson is a classic FA bust profile.

    9) You Jake for Kemp deal is a fantasy

    No, it is quite realistic if I was in charge. Kemp is 1 year from FA. Ellsbury is 2 years from FA.    

    10) Kemps a FA after 2012.
          $20M/2 with a 3rd year $8M with $2M buyouy

    yes, moron.
    11) You called me a racist for saying we should offer Papi
    making it essentially a $22M/2 year deal. Your offer is
    at best $17M/2. You racist!!!!

    Market and entire year makes it clear that this will retain Ortiz. It is over market and quite generous. No reason to offer 2 years.
    12) Hernandez is now at the age you beagn calling Vtek too old
    and his decline began. (I do like RamHern though)

     

    No, Hernandez is not in his late 30's.

    13) You used actual 2012 numbers not average salary which
    is used for luxury tax figures.

    I never said they were. I know CBT computation, and it is not in play for 2012
     
    14) You do realize that to get the supp pick for VTek,
    we have to offer him arbitration, which he will accept
    and make about $2M in 2012 on our roster, right?

    I realize that if Varitek is so sorry as not to agree to decline it, his agent had him decline, then it should not be offered. 
    15) Even if all you say here came true, we'd win less than '11.

    Since you claimed 100 wins for 2011, I dont pay any attention  to your guesses.

    Needless to say, 90 wins was a joke in 2011 collapse. New management and getting rid of Wakefield and Varitek and bringing in true superstar RH slugging OFer to put next to AGon will take care of a lot of home losses in 2011. 

    I notice you have provided nothing on detail and total payroll. I provide details and alternatives in detail. 

    Just keep thinking Scutaro will get a 4-5M offer and the Twins cant afford Mauer.

    You are the most constant poster, the most arrogant and the most clueless. 

    Im amused by Epstein's depature, right after you claimed he was "going nowhere".

    Make sure to provide your detailed roster and FA offers, so you can provide comic relief.

     
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Ben Cherington????!!!! 

    He traded away our best SS for a beer-swilling Starting pitcher and a old veteran 3B that doesn't play anymore!!!!

    And we only won only 1 WS after THAT trade!!!!

    Cherington = Boy Blunder= Ben Blunder


    ( LOL! just trying to capture the true essence of this board. Let the nonsense live on. )
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from emp9. Show emp9's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    1)  I notice you have provided nothing on detail and total payroll. I provide details and alternatives in detail.  
    Posted by hankwilliams


    Dude, Moon posted all that the day after our season was over.  I think... it might'ev been.. yeah I pretty sure it was titled "The 2012 Realistic thread part 1".

    Pretty sure it opens with all that. I'm also pretty sure that thread is still around.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Yeah, here's my plan: trade Jed for Kemp, sign CJ for $6M x 3, Paps for $8M x 2...
     
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