Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    This thread had a lot of potential until the Thread Bearer went off his rails... too bad.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Yes you started 45 threads and one got pinned, big deal. You made about 30 trash threads, your* a weasel 85% of the time, this thread represents the other 15%.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Harnut and Moonslow need to be put on timeout. It's obvious they are imbedded board shills, pretending to be experts but amounting to nothing more assumed acceptable viewpoint police. When they do venture outside the standard fluff on value in retaining Wakefield and Varitek, they show themselves to completely out to lunch on everything from Epstein to Mauer to AGon matriculation.

    In addition, their attempts at humor are youtube cut and paste and lame photoshop and cut and past photo bilge. They are two of the only posters who have unlimited license to call other posters names, lift copywrite material and violate every Board rule in the book. Only imbedded shills could posess such license.

    If Wakefield and Varitek go, the double benefit is you will see less of these Board stalking faux policemen. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Bring back Big Papi!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQzZhkn0h98
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Burritto the thread is a great thread; I am the author. BDC Dottie made it the permanent number one thread and highlighted it in red.

    Congrats!

    But, I'd rather be a poor speller or typist than someone who does not know what words mean.

    Your thread will not be the "number one thread" for much longer, thus it is not "permanent".
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    I know it's you're and not your but I have habitized (not really a word but I like it) the mistake, a mistake that I have made by typing with two fingers and not looking at the screen when I type. I am a poor typist rather than a poor speller.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Your critic is a hypocrite. His language skills are very poor.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    One last attempt to resurrect the discussion.

    C-Salty-1.0
    1B-Gonzo-21.9
    2B-Pedey-8.3
    3B-Headley (via Bard)-3.5
    SS-Scutaro-6
    LF-CC-20.4
    CF-Ells-5
    RF-Beltran-12
    DH-Rotation

    Bench-Lavarnway-.4, Aviles-.8, Reddick-.5, Anderson-.4

    SP-Beckett-17, Lester-7.6, Buchholz-3.8, Floyd (via Youk), Lackey-16
    RP-Paps-12, Aceves-.9, Jenks-6, Wheeler-3, Tazawa-.4, Morales-.4, Bowden-.4

    At DH, against righties, Beltran (w/Reddck in RF), and against lefties, it's Lavarnway (with Beltran in RF).  Preserves Beltran's health.  If we went this route, I'd consider an upgrade in the BP, or another lefty in particular.

    $154.5 in total.

    Another idea would be to add Bedard as a BP lefty and #6 SP on an incentive contract.  He could provide modest help as a reliever, so maybe give him a base, and more value as a quality #6, so maybe add .3M per start.  He'd make at least 10 starts, so that would be $7M out of the BP.  That would put as at about $161M.

    The lineup would be-

    Ells
    Headley
    Pedey
    Gonzo
    Beltran
    CC
    Lavarnway (depending on R/L SP)
    Salty
    Scutaro

    Slightly less offense than last year, slightly better defense.  A little younger and more flexible.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    One last attempt to resurrect the discussion.

    C-Salty-1.0
    1B-Gonzo-21.9
    2B-Pedey-8.3
    3B-Headley (via Bard)-3.5
    SS-Scutaro-6
    LF-CC-20.4
    CF-Ells-5
    RF-Beltran-12
    DH-Rotation

    Bench-Lavarnway-.4, Aviles-.8, Reddick-.5, Anderson-.4

    SP-Beckett-17, Lester-7.6, Buchholz-3.8, Floyd (via Youk), Lackey-16
    RP-Paps-12, Aceves-.9, Jenks-6, Wheeler-3, Tazawa-.4, Morales-.4, Bowden-.4

    At DH, against righties, Beltran (w/Reddck in RF), and against lefties, it's Lavarnway (with Beltran in RF).  Preserves Beltran's health.  If we went this route, I'd consider an upgrade in the BP, or another lefty in particular.

    $154.5 in total.

    Thanks for trying to bring the discussion back to the actual topic. On Aceves, it's his first arb, so even though he may be worth $9M to the Sox, I do not think he will get more than $5-6M. If our budget could go as high as $170-175M, that means we still have about $20-25M to spend this winter or at the deadline. We could keep Papi and get others, or try to extend Jacoby with that kind of cash.

    I don't like the Beltran choice or dealing Bard, but your roster is pretty nice for the price.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Thanks for trying to bring the discussion back to the actual topic. On Aceves, it's his first arb, so even though he may be worth $9M to the Sox, I do not think he will get more than $5-6M. 

    That's .9M, not 9M.  I'm not sure how much these guys get the first time around, even the really good ones.  I didn't think it would make a material difference if I missed a few of the arb guys.  I rounded up on a few players just to offset arb discrepancies, incentives, etc.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]One last attempt to resurrect the discussion. C-Salty-1.0 1B-Gonzo-21.9 2B-Pedey-8.3 3B-Headley (via Bard)-3.5 SS-Scutaro-6 LF-CC-20.4 CF-Ells-5 RF-Beltran-12 DH-Rotation Bench-Lavarnway-.4, Aviles-.8, Reddick-.5, Anderson-.4 SP-Beckett-17, Lester-7.6, Buchholz-3.8, Floyd (via Youk), Lackey-16 RP-Paps-12, Aceves-.9, Jenks-6, Wheeler-3, Tazawa-.4, Morales-.4, Bowden-.4 At DH, against righties, Beltran (w/Reddck in RF), and against lefties, it's Lavarnway (with Beltran in RF).  Preserves Beltran's health.  If we went this route, I'd consider an upgrade in the BP, or another lefty in particular. $154.5 in total. Another idea would be to add Bedard as a BP lefty and #6 SP on an incentive contract.  He could provide modest help as a reliever, so maybe give him a base, and more value as a quality #6, so maybe add .3M per start.  He'd make at least 10 starts, so that would be $7M out of the BP.  That would put as at about $161M. The lineup would be- Ells Headley Pedey Gonzo Beltran CC Lavarnway (depending on R/L SP) Salty Scutaro Slightly less offense than last year, slightly better defense.  A little younger and more flexible.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]I think that bullpen looks kind of weak. I'm not sold on Jenks or Morales.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]Thanks for trying to bring the discussion back to the actual topic. On Aceves, it's his first arb, so even though he may be worth $9M to the Sox, I do not think he will get more than $5-6M.  That's .9M, not 9M.  I'm not sure how much these guys get the first time around, even the really good ones.  I didn't think it would make a material difference if I missed a few of the arb guys.  I rounded up on a few players just to offset arb discrepancies, incentives, etc.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, usually first arbs underpay by a lot. He may just get about $1M
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : I think that bullpen looks kind of weak. I'm not sold on Jenks or Morales.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    Jenks did nothing in 2011. If healthy, I guess he could contribute in 2012.
    I like Morales, but not as a top reliever.

    We had a very good bullpen in 2011. The problem was out starters made them pitch more than they were able to. If we fix the starter situation and bring back Papelbon, I think the pen just needs a minor tweek or two.

    Papelbon, Bard, and Aceves is about as good as any team has for a top 3 pen. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : Jenks did nothing in 2011. If healthy, I guess he could contribute in 2012. I like Morales, but not as a top reliever. We had a very good bullpen in 2011. The problem was out starters made them pitch more than they were able to. If we fix the starter situation and bring back Papelbon, I think the pen just needs a minor tweek or two. Papelbon, Bard, and Aceves is about as good as any team has for a top 3 pen. 
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]I agree with that. The games I watched though, Morales didn't even seem to be getting lefties out.l What do you think about Weiland in the pen? He seemed to look pretty good the first time through the order.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : I agree with that. The games I watched though, Morales didn't even seem to be getting lefties out.l What do you think about Weiland in the pen? He seemed to look pretty good the first time through the order.
    Posted by carnie[/QUOTE]

    I don't have any good feelings about Weiland.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Weiland is young and inexperienced. He is a maybe. Wastefield is a no way. I have no good feelings about Timmy T-Ball or the posters who want to pretend he isn't terrible so they can focus on Timmy T-Ball ceremonial part 2 search for 7 more wins.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : I don't have any good feelings about Weiland.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]



    Pity the FO didn't see it that way this year.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    Pity the FO saw Wastefield as a pitcher, instead of the bum that he is.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from JustWords. Show JustWords's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]My biggest problem after 50+ years of now fading fandom is that I simply can't get myself to care much about what this team puts on the field next year.  They have sucked the life out of me at last.  Here are the players I'd pay to to watch: Pedey; Ellsbury; Papelbon (the newer, mature version); Lester (he finally takes on a leadership role and gets crucified for it in the press); Bucholz; The Player Formally Known As Carl Crawford (if he is still alive); Aceves; um...let's see...uh...hmm.... damn... Of the above, the only one I really care about is Pedey. Isn't that sad? I'm wondering how things go if we package all the veteran sports writers from the two daily rags and send them off to Chicago with Theo, and then import a new set of eyes and ears from say...San Diego, Salt Lake City, Sacramento...a bunch of younger and less cynical eyes and ears who might write more about baseball and less about pointed fingers... Thanks for listening...
    Posted by teachdad46[/QUOTE]


    Thank you for putting my feelings into words.  I mean, I'm not so emotionally impaired that I can't say those things, but doing so is almost heresy 'round these parts. 

    Granted, it will never be the way it was when we were still fighting after decades to reverse the curse, but still, we've become the Other Yankees.  The fandom is fat with entitlement and the players are not very likable (although I expect good things from Crawford going forward). 

    It's a shame the fans and the media around here have to be so incredibly harsh.  It's one thing to want to win.  It's quite another to channel absurd amounts of sublimated hatred towards athletes, which is a big part of why I don't bother much with the boards.  Maybe something happens to people when they go so long without winning and then they get used to it.  Instead of being excited to win, they're mad to lose.  Instead of being disappointed when things don't go their way, they get bitter. 

    Something like that.  It definitely kills the fun.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : Pity the FO didn't see it that way this year.
    Posted by harness[/QUOTE]

    Just because the pitched him didn't mean they liked him. There were really no other options besides losing our top middle guy and moving him to starter.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : I don't have any good feelings about Weiland.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    SeabeachFred says he needs two more years in the minors to learn how to pitch, and SBF has a pretty good handle on prospects.

    It's interesting to note his 1st inning OPSa.  It's somewhere around .229, which is about as low as you can go and still be above .000.  Same with pitches 1-25.  SSS and all, but there is a world of difference between the 1st inning and every other inning.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : SeabeachFred says he needs two more years in the minors to learn how to pitch, and SBF has a pretty good handle on prospects. It's interesting to note his 1st inning OPSa.  It's somewhere around .229, which is about as low as you can go and still be above .000.  Same with pitches 1-25.  SSS and all, but there is a world of difference between the 1st inning and every other inning.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    I agree that Weiland was brought up before he was ready. He still could turn out OK, but I wouldn't count on it.

    I wouldn't read too much into the 1st inning OPS. It's a small sample size.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : Just because the pitched him didn't mean they liked him. There were really no other options besides losing our top middle guy and moving him to starter.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    A couple of times in 2010 the team went with 2-3 IP from an assortment of relievers (lower depth) and it worked. That was the option I was for at the time.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from harness. Show harness's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington! : SeabeachFred says he needs two more years in the minors to learn how to pitch,and SBF has a pretty good handle on prospects. It's interesting to note his 1st inning OPSa.  It's somewhere around .229, which is about as low as you can go and still be above .000.  Same with pitches 1-25.  SSS and all, but there is a world of difference between the 1st inning and every other inning.
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]

    I doubt he'll get the opportunity in Pawtucket. From what I saw of Weiland, his off-speed stuff has too much hang time to be successful in the majors, or at least pitching in a hitters venue...in the A. L. East.

    This guy might end up being a career minor-leaguer.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliams. Show hankwilliams's posts

    Re: Putting together the 2012 Red Sox Roster: Let's help Ben Cherington!

    We can count on Timmy T-Ball not turning out alright, for any idiot stupid enough to offer him a MLB contract roster spot. 
     

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