Question on pitching staff

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from ArtWikle. Show ArtWikle's posts

    Question on pitching staff

    With 16 pitchers on the depth chart for the Sox, who makes the final 12?

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    It's dependent on on options and early on how they manipulate the DL...

    Base on contract terms and options, the locks are; 1) Lester 2) Buccholz 3) Dempster 4) Doubront 5) Lackey 6) Hanrahan 7) Urehara 8) Morales 9) Miller 10) Breslow 11) Bailey 12) Aceves.

    Those that are on the fence and are dependent on further roster moves are

    13) Tazawa who's out of options, but will be in the mix?

    14) Bard who I believe still has options. Frankly has to pitch his way back onto the team this spring.

    15) Mortensen's another who needs to show that he's a viable ML reliever and his status is aslo dependent on other roster moves if he's also out of options?

    not sure who the 16 pitcher is that you're refering too? The only others on the 40 man roster that are not slated to start the season in AAA I believe is Carpenter?

    That said, it's fairly obvious based on all of the above that some sort of deal is in the offing. Becasue there's no chance they'll let Tazawa walk so the reality is that they need to make room for him and it could be as simple as one of the above starting the year in AAA if we assume that Bard is also slated to start the season @ AAA...Lots of time to sort it out and the good news is that Cherinton's dealing from a position of strength...

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    It's dependent on on options and early on how they manipulate the DL...

    Base on contract terms and options, the locks are; 1) Lester 2) Buccholz 3) Dempster 4) Doubront 5) Lackey 6) Hanrahan 7) Urehara 8) Morales 9) Miller 10) Breslow 11) Bailey 12) Aceves.

    Those that are on the fence and are dependent on further roster moves are

    13) Tazawa who's out of options, but will be in the mix?

    14) Bard who I believe still has options. Frankly has to pitch his way back onto the team this spring.

    15) Mortensen's another who needs to show that he's a viable ML reliever and his status is aslo dependent on other roster moves if he's also out of options?

    not sure who the 16 pitcher is that you're refering too? The only others on the 40 man roster that are not slated to start the season in AAA I believe is Carpenter?

    That said, it's fairly obvious based on all of the above that some sort of deal is in the offing. Becasue there's no chance they'll let Tazawa walk so the reality is that they need to make room for him and it could be as simple as one of the above starting the year in AAA if we assume that Bard is also slated to start the season @ AAA...Lots of time to sort it out and the good news is that Cherinton's dealing from a position of strength...



    According to soxprospects.com Tazawa still has 1 option left.

    http://www.soxprospects.com/40man.htm

    Here are the rest of the pitcher options remaining:

    Buch 1

    Bard 2

    Aceves 1

    Britton 3

    Bailey 3

    Mortensen 0

    Carpenter 1

    Webster 3

    de la Rosa 3

    Wright 3

    The rest have zero.

    It seems Mortensen is the guy that will be on the 25 man roster or traded.

    Wilson 3

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    I assume a trade will be made sometime in January, that thins out the log jam a bit.  I hope they keep Mortenson.  Don't particularly know why except I like him and his peripherals a lot.  I also think Tazawa needs to be one of the final 12 or 13.  I expect Aceves and Bailey and perhaps Doubront or Morales to be shipped out in a deal  before opening day.

    My final 13: 

    Dempster, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Floyd, Morales

    Hanrahan, Uehara, Tazawa, Miller, Breslow, Mortenson, Bard

    [Aceves and Doubront and Bailey are dealt away (along with Salty and Kalish and Holt) in two separate trades to land Floyd and an OFer of some consequence, but not Justin Upton.]

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from vtfanofcs. Show vtfanofcs's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    It's dependent on on options and early on how they manipulate the DL...

    Base on contract terms and options, the locks are; 1) Lester 2) Buccholz 3) Dempster 4) Doubront 5) Lackey 6) Hanrahan 7) Urehara 8) Morales 9) Miller 10) Breslow 11) Bailey 12) Aceves.

    Those that are on the fence and are dependent on further roster moves are

    13) Tazawa who's out of options, but will be in the mix?

    14) Bard who I believe still has options. Frankly has to pitch his way back onto the team this spring.

    15) Mortensen's another who needs to show that he's a viable ML reliever and his status is aslo dependent on other roster moves if he's also out of options?

    not sure who the 16 pitcher is that you're refering too? The only others on the 40 man roster that are not slated to start the season in AAA I believe is Carpenter?

    That said, it's fairly obvious based on all of the above that some sort of deal is in the offing. Becasue there's no chance they'll let Tazawa walk so the reality is that they need to make room for him and it could be as simple as one of the above starting the year in AAA if we assume that Bard is also slated to start the season @ AAA...Lots of time to sort it out and the good news is that Cherinton's dealing from a position of strength...




      I'm not very high on Andrew Miller's odds of being on the opening day roster.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    I assume a trade will be made sometime in January, that thins out the log jam a bit.  I hope they keep Mortenson.  Don't particularly know why except I like him and his peripherals a lot.  I also think Tazawa needs to be one of the final 12 or 13.  I expect Aceves and Bailey and perhaps Doubront or Morales to be shipped out in a deal  before opening day.

    My final 13: 

    Dempster, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Floyd, Morales

    Hanrahan, Uehara, Tazawa, Miller, Breslow, Mortenson, Bard

    [Aceves and Doubront and Bailey are dealt away (along with Salty and Kalish and Holt) in two separate trades to land Floyd and an OFer of some consequence, but not Justin Upton.]



    I can see this happening, but think Miller may be dealt instead of Aceves or Bailey.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    Too bad we haven't a bona fide #1 in place of Lackey, strong staff apart from that huge hole.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from ArtWikle. Show ArtWikle's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    It's dependent on on options and early on how they manipulate the DL...

    Base on contract terms and options, the locks are; 1) Lester 2) Buccholz 3) Dempster 4) Doubront 5) Lackey 6) Hanrahan 7) Urehara 8) Morales 9) Miller 10) Breslow 11) Bailey 12) Aceves.

    Those that are on the fence and are dependent on further roster moves are

    13) Tazawa who's out of options, but will be in the mix?

    14) Bard who I believe still has options. Frankly has to pitch his way back onto the team this spring.

    15) Mortensen's another who needs to show that he's a viable ML reliever and his status is aslo dependent on other roster moves if he's also out of options?

    not sure who the 16 pitcher is that you're refering too? The only others on the 40 man roster that are not slated to start the season in AAA I believe is Carpenter?

    That said, it's fairly obvious based on all of the above that some sort of deal is in the offing. Becasue there's no chance they'll let Tazawa walk so the reality is that they need to make room for him and it could be as simple as one of the above starting the year in AAA if we assume that Bard is also slated to start the season @ AAA...Lots of time to sort it out and the good news is that Cherinton's dealing from a position of strength...




    Add 16 - CArpenter 17 Wilson

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox trade Miller.  They would be trading high, IMO.  But Miller is a lefty.  Right now, unless they bring Hill back, the Sox are a bit thin on lefties.  I should think Bailey and Aceves are both more expendable and would also bring as much value in return.  Just my opinion.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    It's dependent on on options and early on how they manipulate the DL...

    Base on contract terms and options, the locks are; 1) Lester 2) Buccholz 3) Dempster 4) Doubront 5) Lackey 6) Hanrahan 7) Urehara 8) Morales 9) Miller 10) Breslow 11) Bailey 12) Aceves.

    Those that are on the fence and are dependent on further roster moves are

    13) Tazawa who's out of options, but will be in the mix?

    14) Bard who I believe still has options. Frankly has to pitch his way back onto the team this spring.

    15) Mortensen's another who needs to show that he's a viable ML reliever and his status is aslo dependent on other roster moves if he's also out of options?

    not sure who the 16 pitcher is that you're refering too? The only others on the 40 man roster that are not slated to start the season in AAA I believe is Carpenter?

    That said, it's fairly obvious based on all of the above that some sort of deal is in the offing. Becasue there's no chance they'll let Tazawa walk so the reality is that they need to make room for him and it could be as simple as one of the above starting the year in AAA if we assume that Bard is also slated to start the season @ AAA...Lots of time to sort it out and the good news is that Cherinton's dealing from a position of strength...



    According to soxprospects.com Tazawa still has 1 option left.

    http://www.soxprospects.com/40man.htm

    Here are the rest of the pitcher options remaining:

    Buch 1

    Bard 2

    Aceves 1

    Britton 3

    Bailey 3

    Mortensen 0

    Carpenter 1

    Webster 3

    de la Rosa 3

    Wright 3

    The rest have zero.

    It seems Mortensen is the guy that will be on the 25 man roster or traded.

    Wilson 3

     

     



    That'a good news as it buys them more flexibility in terms of managing the surplus...As we know you can't have enough pitching and given the up & down nature of bullpens. Baring a trade you have to like the depth...given that Tazawa has another option does it makes sense for him to perhaps begin the season in Pawtuckeof as a starter?

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox trade Miller.  They would be trading high, IMO.  But Miller is a lefty.  Right now, unless they bring Hill back, the Sox are a bit thin on lefties.  I should think Bailey and Aceves are both more expendable and would also bring as much value in return.  Just my opinion.



    The Sox currently have three LHRP.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mt200. Show Mt200's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    If Tazawa option determines him making the roster or not, I will puke.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to Mt200's comment:

    If Tazawa option determines him making the roster or not, I will pu ke.



    Don't worry, but someone will be hurt and if Tazawa pitches well in ST, he's in.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    I think the reason the Sox are not in a rush to sign another starting pitcher is because they feel they have what they need: 

    With Dempster, Lackey, Lester, Buch and Doubie--I think Farrell feels good about the rotatation. If Farrell gets to sign off or is consulted on all trades, esp. those involving  pitchers--he will try to convince BenC not to move Aceves and Tazawa under all circumstances. He knows their value and sees the need for them to pitch 2 or more innings effectively and often with the five current starters  to get to Bailey, Morales, Breslow, Ue and Hanrahan.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    The BP is strong, just as it was last year, except Aceves is a cancer IMO.

    The SP is mediocre at best and certainly not championship caliber. who are the number 1 and number 2 guys who could win 4 games in a best of 7?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    The BP is strong, just as it was last year, except Aceves is a cancer IMO.

    The SP is mediocre at best and certainly not championship caliber. who are the number 1 and number 2 guys who could win 4 games in a best of 7?



    Lester and Buchholz.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Iceman4. Show Iceman4's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to Alibiike's comment:

    The BP is strong, just as it was last year, except Aceves is a cancer IMO.

    The SP is mediocre at best and certainly not championship caliber. who are the number 1 and number 2 guys who could win 4 games in a best of 7?




    and that's only if we get there......

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to notin's comment:

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    I wouldn't mind seeing the Sox trade Miller.  They would be trading high, IMO.  But Miller is a lefty.  Right now, unless they bring Hill back, the Sox are a bit thin on lefties.  I should think Bailey and Aceves are both more expendable and would also bring as much value in return.  Just my opinion.



    The Sox currently have three LHRP.

     

    Not if they trade Miller and end up using Morales as a swing man.  When Morales is in the rotation, they only have Breslow as LHRP if they trade Miller.




     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    Hopefully the"final 12" includes about 2 to 3 guys we don't have yet.

    Because, the pitching staff still stinks, although freeloaders Beckett and Matsuzaka are gone.

     
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  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from soxnewmex. Show soxnewmex's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    Yes, thats a blessing, no more Beckett, a real #1 is what we need in order to compete for a playoff spot, but there's not one out there to get.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to soxnewmex's comment:

    Yes, thats a blessing, no more Beckett, a real #1 is what we need in order to compete for a playoff spot, but there's not one out there to get.



    Beckett was the closest thing we had to a "real #1". The problem was that it was only for odd numbered years.

    Yes, we have no legitimate shot unless we get a number 1 type starter or possibly a solid #2 type. I don't think Gavin Floyd is a difference maker, but he may the best we can get at this point.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from parhunter55. Show parhunter55's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    I that Floyd would be merely an upgrade over whomever is pitching in the #4 or #5 slot in the rotation.  But that seems to Ben's MO so far this off-season...upgrading several positions, while landing guys that will be good clubhouse guys.  Not a bad tactic if you have an 85 win team.  But it is a real gamble with this team. 

    And the gamble is that Buchholz and Lester will re-emerge as bona fide #1 and #2 type starters, and that the deep bullpen shortens games.  I am not sold on this happening, and I am sure Ben C is not as well.  But if the alternative is to way overpay for a #1 starter in terms of prospects and/or salary in the hopes that he is the difference maker (and doesn't get injured or just not do well in the Boston market, as has happened so frequently in recent years), then I suspect Ben will stay the current course.  And so would I.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    I that Floyd would be merely an upgrade over whomever is pitching in the #4 or #5 slot in the rotation.  But that seems to Ben's MO so far this off-season...upgrading several positions, while landing guys that will be good clubhouse guys.  Not a bad tactic if you have an 85 win team.  But it is a real gamble with this team. 

    And the gamble is that Buchholz and Lester will re-emerge as bona fide #1 and #2 type starters, and that the deep bullpen shortens games.  I am not sold on this happening, and I am sure Ben C is not as well.  But if the alternative is to way overpay for a #1 starter in terms of prospects and/or salary in the hopes that he is the difference maker (and doesn't get injured or just not do well in the Boston market, as has happened so frequently in recent years), then I suspect Ben will stay the current course.  And so would I.



    Stay the course of playing it halfway is not a good course at all.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Question on pitching staff

    In response to moonslav59's comment:

    In response to parhunter55's comment:

    I that Floyd would be merely an upgrade over whomever is pitching in the #4 or #5 slot in the rotation.  But that seems to Ben's MO so far this off-season...upgrading several positions, while landing guys that will be good clubhouse guys.  Not a bad tactic if you have an 85 win team.  But it is a real gamble with this team. 

    And the gamble is that Buchholz and Lester will re-emerge as bona fide #1 and #2 type starters, and that the deep bullpen shortens games.  I am not sold on this happening, and I am sure Ben C is not as well.  But if the alternative is to way overpay for a #1 starter in terms of prospects and/or salary in the hopes that he is the difference maker (and doesn't get injured or just not do well in the Boston market, as has happened so frequently in recent years), then I suspect Ben will stay the current course.  And so would I.



    Stay the course of playing it halfway is not a good course at all.



    Don't under estimate the cause and effect that John Farrel's return can and will have on both Lester and Buccholz. Make no mistake about it, his hiring by Cherington, centers around his knowledge of both. Since Farrel also knows that his and the teams fortunes rest on Lester's return to form. My guess is that he's already broken down film on both from last year and has communicated to each of them specifics they'll need to work on as they ramp up and ready for spring training.

     
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