Range factors into Iggy's error...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    One can easily imagine what would have been posted had Iggy made a game saving wide-ranged play.

    [/QUOTE]

    Very true.

    I for one have given Drew a lot of support this year, mainly because I think he's played well enough to earn his 9.5 million.  But I won't run away from facts - he made a nasty error last night that could have been very costly and he's done little with the bat in the postseason so far.  

     

     
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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree moon.  However, I did find it poignant, with so much lauding of Iggy's glove, that he made that throw in a critical moment.  He is not perfect.  he is still young.  And Ozzie Smith either doesn't throw that ball or puts it on target.  Iglesias is not there yet, EVEN WITH HIS GLOVE.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the play warranted comments, especially with all the Iggy-Peavy and Iggy-Drew banter going on all year. One can easily imagine what would have been posted had Iggy made a game saving wide-ranged play.

    [/QUOTE]


    So a wide-ranged play is now a new term for practically right to the SS? I'm not seeing that. I would take Drew all day everyday. I honestly don't think Inglesias has the experience that I would prefer at SS. We don't need a guy that jumps in the air for dramatic effect every time he gets an opportunity to catch a ball. Everyone could do that, if they wanted to. I prefer guys that just know what they're doing so it seems effortless. But I'm not Inglesias' publicist, so maybe that's why.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have at SS, Iggy or Drew, and the majority would say Drew because he has a much higher WAR and because these are the playoffs where you want to avoid rookie mistakes.   Iglesias was a defensive replacement, but didn't have the good sense not to throw when the out wasn't there, so his error led to an unearned run.  There is even the outside possibility, suggested by Kim, that last night Iggy was showing off his defense because he was benched as a starter because he could not hit Oakland pitching.  He even had a chance to redeem himself when Salty hit that hard grounder to him, but it went through.  Absolutely not an error, but also not an impossible play.  Theoretically, Iggy's kind of play to make. 

     

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to maxbialystock's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have at SS, Iggy or Drew, and the majority would say Drew because he has a much higher WAR and because these are the playoffs where you want to avoid rookie mistakes.   Iglesias was a defensive replacement, but didn't have the good sense not to throw when the out wasn't there, so his error led to an unearned run.  There is even the outside possibility, suggested by Kim, that last night Iggy was showing off his defense because he was benched as a starter because he could not hit Oakland pitching.  He even had a chance to redeem himself when Salty hit that hard grounder to him, but it went through.  Absolutely not an error, but also not an impossible play.  Theoretically, Iggy's kind of play to make. 

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So true, Max. Iggy is playing for the highlight reel. He's throwing from jumps that, most of the time, don't even need to be jumps. It will impact any team he's on if he doesn't change that mindset. Again, I take Drew all day over that. Just gets the job done without all the drama. Iggy is about Iggy and moving on to wherever he's going to go. I don't see him as a member of any "team" effort.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree moon.  However, I did find it poignant, with so much lauding of Iggy's glove, that he made that throw in a critical moment.  He is not perfect.  he is still young.  And Ozzie Smith either doesn't throw that ball or puts it on target.  Iglesias is not there yet, EVEN WITH HIS GLOVE.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the play warranted comments, especially with all the Iggy-Peavy and Iggy-Drew banter going on all year. One can easily imagine what would have been posted had Iggy made a game saving wide-ranged play.

    [/QUOTE]


    So a wide-ranged play is now a new term for practically right to the SS? I'm not seeing that. I would take Drew all day everyday. I honestly don't think Inglesias has the experience that I would prefer at SS. We don't need a guy that jumps in the air for dramatic effect every time he gets an opportunity to catch a ball. Everyone could do that, if they wanted to. I prefer guys that just know what they're doing so it seems effortless. But I'm not Inglesias' publicist, so maybe that's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    Earlier in the year, I was going to bring this up, but decided I didn't have quite enough evidence to do so, plus I already had dissed Iggy a lot. However, I am glad somebody else has noticed.

    What I was seeing was Iggy diving to his right on plays that he ended up short arming and the ball hitting the upper part of the glove. Saw it happen more then once and it made me believe he didn't need to dive on those plays. I thought at the time Iggy believed more in style over substance. The name Jim Edmunds came to my mind. A player that loved to time balls so he could make diving catches. He was fun to watch, but really wasn't all that great on defense. More of a showboat. Still not 100% certain. But seeing other people notice is getting me pretty close to 100%.

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from mef429. Show mef429's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree moon.  However, I did find it poignant, with so much lauding of Iggy's glove, that he made that throw in a critical moment.  He is not perfect.  he is still young.  And Ozzie Smith either doesn't throw that ball or puts it on target.  Iglesias is not there yet, EVEN WITH HIS GLOVE.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the play warranted comments, especially with all the Iggy-Peavy and Iggy-Drew banter going on all year. One can easily imagine what would have been posted had Iggy made a game saving wide-ranged play.

    [/QUOTE]


    So a wide-ranged play is now a new term for practically right to the SS? I'm not seeing that. I would take Drew all day everyday. I honestly don't think Inglesias has the experience that I would prefer at SS. We don't need a guy that jumps in the air for dramatic effect every time he gets an opportunity to catch a ball. Everyone could do that, if they wanted to. I prefer guys that just know what they're doing so it seems effortless. But I'm not Inglesias' publicist, so maybe that's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    Earlier in the year, I was going to bring this up, but decided I didn't have quite enough evidence to do so, plus I already had dissed Iggy a lot. However, I am glad somebody else has noticed.

    What I was seeing was Iggy diving to his right on plays that he ended up short arming and the ball hitting the upper part of the glove. Saw it happen more then once and it made me believe he didn't need to dive on those plays. I thought at the time Iggy believed more in style over substance. The name Jim Edmunds came to my mind. A player that loved to time balls so he could make diving catches. He was fun to watch, but really wasn't all that great on defense. More of a showboat. Still not 100% certain. But seeing other people notice is getting me pretty close to 100%.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i think i remember seeing an article and subsequent BDC thread about Tigers teammates saying that Iggy is "flashy for the sake of being flashy" in the field.

    EDIT: found it

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from southpaw777. Show southpaw777's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to BurritoT-'s comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hfxsoxnut's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Also in the first game of this series Iggy had a grounder by Ellsbury bounce off his glove.  It bounced right in front of him and he recovered to make the play.  But he's far from a flawless fielder.   

    [/QUOTE]

    give it up dude, dissing Iggy to justify Drew... I thought only southpaw did that.

    [/QUOTE]


    Ive never done that. Ive given facts and also stated what opinions are. Nice try Burr.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]

    My intent with this thread was not to bash him. If you asked specific to defense, not sure that many GM's would pick anyone but Iggy. Drew today is the better player

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BMav. Show BMav's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to mef429's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to BMav's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree moon.  However, I did find it poignant, with so much lauding of Iggy's glove, that he made that throw in a critical moment.  He is not perfect.  he is still young.  And Ozzie Smith either doesn't throw that ball or puts it on target.  Iglesias is not there yet, EVEN WITH HIS GLOVE.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the play warranted comments, especially with all the Iggy-Peavy and Iggy-Drew banter going on all year. One can easily imagine what would have been posted had Iggy made a game saving wide-ranged play.

    [/QUOTE]


    So a wide-ranged play is now a new term for practically right to the SS? I'm not seeing that. I would take Drew all day everyday. I honestly don't think Inglesias has the experience that I would prefer at SS. We don't need a guy that jumps in the air for dramatic effect every time he gets an opportunity to catch a ball. Everyone could do that, if they wanted to. I prefer guys that just know what they're doing so it seems effortless. But I'm not Inglesias' publicist, so maybe that's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    Earlier in the year, I was going to bring this up, but decided I didn't have quite enough evidence to do so, plus I already had dissed Iggy a lot. However, I am glad somebody else has noticed.

    What I was seeing was Iggy diving to his right on plays that he ended up short arming and the ball hitting the upper part of the glove. Saw it happen more then once and it made me believe he didn't need to dive on those plays. I thought at the time Iggy believed more in style over substance. The name Jim Edmunds came to my mind. A player that loved to time balls so he could make diving catches. He was fun to watch, but really wasn't all that great on defense. More of a showboat. Still not 100% certain. But seeing other people notice is getting me pretty close to 100%.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    i think i remember seeing an article and subsequent BDC thread about Tigers teammates saying that Iggy is "flashy for the sake of being flashy" in the field.

    EDIT: found it

    [/QUOTE]


    I can't recall seeing that article. I just looked back between August 13th and August 21st here and I can't find where we talked about it here. Either I am losing it or I just missed it. Anyway, good to see even players have discussed it.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    I'm glad Iggy isn't on our team, why? Because the revolving door at shortstop is a Red Sox tradition the last decade. I prefer to watch great defensive players come and go. 

    Seriously though it looks like the trade was a good one for both teams. Coming down on Iggy too hard doesn't make sense to me, he's still young also. Players do mature you know. 

    The funny thing folks do sometimes is say, "I like him, he's a team guy" - not realizing that you can help someone mature into a team guy, but you can't give someone talent. Iggy has a load of fielding talent you just can't teach. But you can teach him to be less reckless. 

    For now, I'm happy with the trade and glad to have Peavy, we need to win that pitching matchup.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from fizsh. Show fizsh's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you take out one incredibly hot streak he had Iggy


    If a frog had wings.

    Iggy came off the bench on a cool damp night and was in a tough spot. The decision to throw the ball with that kind of velocity was a rookie mistake. It kept the pitiful Red Sox lineup's hope alive long enough to allow for Manager Jim's signature move of incompetence. 

    S. Drew continued to show he has no business starting over Bogaerts, just as he had no business starting over Iglesias. Old bobble hands showed himself with a little league error, and continues to be a total embarrassment at the plate in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs. 

    S. Drew's on the way out the door for a reason, and it's not because he's Beltre;) He should have been on the bench, tonight, having him flopped against Sanchez and the entire 2012 and 2013 playoffs. Bogaerts should get the starts from here out, but pride and prejudice is middle management's speck.

    [/QUOTE]

    Are you saying Leyland should have walked Saltalamachhia and Drew to pitch to Middlebrooks like they suggested on the telecast?  I am not sure what signature move of incompetence that occurred after the Iglesias play you are referring to

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to SpacemanEephus' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ask any GM or scout in MLB who they'd rather have on defense at SS, Iggy or Drew, and 100% would take Iggy with a second to hesitate.

    These one game definitive judgements are illogical.

    No SS is flawless.  Iggy is one of the best today on defense.

    I'm glad we have Peavy, and Wednesday will show you why, but bashing Iggy's defense based on a couple of plays is going too far.

    [/QUOTE]

    Totally agree moon.  However, I did find it poignant, with so much lauding of Iggy's glove, that he made that throw in a critical moment.  He is not perfect.  he is still young.  And Ozzie Smith either doesn't throw that ball or puts it on target.  Iglesias is not there yet, EVEN WITH HIS GLOVE.  

    [/QUOTE]

    Of course the play warranted comments, especially with all the Iggy-Peavy and Iggy-Drew banter going on all year. One can easily imagine what would have been posted had Iggy made a game saving wide-ranged play.

    [/QUOTE]


    So a wide-ranged play is now a new term for practically right to the SS? I'm not seeing that. I would take Drew all day everyday. I honestly don't think Inglesias has the experience that I would prefer at SS. We don't need a guy that jumps in the air for dramatic effect every time he gets an opportunity to catch a ball. Everyone could do that, if they wanted to. I prefer guys that just know what they're doing so it seems effortless. But I'm not Inglesias' publicist, so maybe that's why.

    [/QUOTE]

    I never even came close to saying anything about a play hit "practically right to the SS". My point was that had Iggy made a spectacular play showcasing his superb range, there would have been several posters making the opposite points.

    Your point about making "dramatic effects" on plays is hollow.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    My intent with this thread was not to bash him. If you asked specific to defense, not sure that many GM's would pick anyone but Iggy. Drew today is the better player

    I've been a huge Iggy supporter, but I simply see it like this for "right now":

    Drew + Peavy   >>>   Iggy + Dempster or Doubront

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My intent with this thread was not to bash him. If you asked specific to defense, not sure that many GM's would pick anyone but Iggy. Drew today is the better player

    I've been a huge Iggy supporter, but I simply see it like this for "right now":

    Drew + Peavy   >>>   Iggy + Dempster or Doubront

    [/QUOTE]

    Hard to argue with the net results of the deal. Cleary we're a beter team with Peavy in our rotation...Take Drew out of the argument in part because at no time during the season did they ever see Iglesias as the better player. That and the trade doesn't happen without Iglesias. The Tigers never would have traded Avicil Garcia for a player on the last year of his deal. not with Peralta coming back...Ultimately young Bogearts will have a say in how the trade of Iglesias will be viewed in 5 years. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My intent with this thread was not to bash him. If you asked specific to defense, not sure that many GM's would pick anyone but Iggy. Drew today is the better player

    I've been a huge Iggy supporter, but I simply see it like this for "right now":

    Drew + Peavy   >>>   Iggy + Dempster or Doubront

    [/QUOTE]

    Hard to argue with the net results of the deal. Cleary we're a beter team with Peavy in our rotation...Take Drew out of the argument in part because at no time during the season did they ever see Iglesias as the better player. That and the trade doesn't happen without Iglesias. The Tigers never would have traded Avicil Garcia for a player on the last year of his deal. not with Peralta coming back...Ultimately young Bogearts will have a say in how the trade of Iglesias will be viewed in 5 years. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ...and with Middy scheduled to come back to the bigs, like it or not, Iggy was going to become our 2013 utility IF'er.

    Once we accept that fate, to get a guy like Peavy (for 2 playoff cycles) for a UIF'er is is a no-brainer.

    The only caveat in the plan is that Bogey is probably a better 3Bman than SS, Middy a better 1Bman than 3Bman, and Iggy could have been the FT SS for many years to come, so the future Bogey vs Iggy comparison will not tell the whole story, just as it isn't necessarily Iggy vs Peralta, since Peralta can and has been moved to LF, so both can play at the same time.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to ZILLAGOD's comment:
    [QUOTE]


    Red Sox likely win either way.

    [/QUOTE]

    If they had to play the whole inning, they might still be scoring.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Beantowne's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    My intent with this thread was not to bash him. If you asked specific to defense, not sure that many GM's would pick anyone but Iggy. Drew today is the better player

    I've been a huge Iggy supporter, but I simply see it like this for "right now":

    Drew + Peavy   >>>   Iggy + Dempster or Doubront

    [/QUOTE]

    Hard to argue with the net results of the deal. Cleary we're a beter team with Peavy in our rotation...Take Drew out of the argument in part because at no time during the season did they ever see Iglesias as the better player. That and the trade doesn't happen without Iglesias. The Tigers never would have traded Avicil Garcia for a player on the last year of his deal. not with Peralta coming back...Ultimately young Bogearts will have a say in how the trade of Iglesias will be viewed in 5 years. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ...and with Middy scheduled to come back to the bigs, like it or not, Iggy was going to become our 2013 utility IF'er.

    Once we accept that fate, to get a guy like Peavy (for 2 playoff cycles) for a UIF'er is is a no-brainer.

    The only caveat in the plan is that Bogey is probably a better 3Bman than SS, Middy a better 1Bman than 3Bman, and Iggy could have been the FT SS for many years to come, so the future Bogey vs Iggy comparison will not tell the whole story, just as it isn't necessarily Iggy vs Peralta, since Peralta can and has been moved to LF, so both can play at the same time.

    [/QUOTE]

    Time wil tell where they all fit into the puzzle the long term. Bogearts might not be iggy with the glove, but has shown in the few opportunities he had that he can play SS...Middlebrooks is fine right where he is or could move accross the diamond as you suggest. He's certainly earned the opportunity to play but has to figure out how to be more consistent with the bat. 

    This offseason depending on what they do with Drew and Napoli, should give us some insight on what they plan to do with the infield in the short term. And to some degree Ellsbury because his status also impacts the profile of player we might look to acquire to play right or left (big bat)...Sans Napoli the need will be to find a bat to hit 5th behind Papi or forth if they don't resign Ellsbury and move Pedrioa back to the two hole with Victorino leading off. Cherington won't sit on his hands this offseason. My guess is that you and I will engage in plenty of hot stove chat this offseason. for now I want to stay in the moment and enjoy the playoff run which hopefully ends with us hoisting the trophy with the shiny flags on it...

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to jete02fan's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to royf19's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Forget about that error. On Salty's game-winning hit. If that had come against Boston and it was Drew at SS, all we would have heard on this board was that Iggy would have stopped it.

    Look -- Iggy is great defensively. But there was always this ridiculous notion that Iggy would never make an error and that he would get to EVERY ball in the area and that led to ridiculously high estimates on how many runs in a season he would prevent.

    [/QUOTE]

    Go Roy! So true.

    [/QUOTE] besides, all the range in the world doesn't disguise the fact that is was simply a hurried, errant throw...heck, i'm sure we've  all seen bad throws on balls hit right at the SS..


    [/QUOTE]

               "all seen bad throws"

                   Really not the point jete.

                   In a tie game bottom of 9 you eat that ball.

    As for the Sox chances the rest of the way it's like there playing with house money because nobody expected them to get this far to start with.

    The Sox future imo starts in 2014 forward.

    2013 is all gravy for Sox fans.

    [/QUOTE] morning 2H...i wasn't attempting to  make it "the point"...i totally agree on the eat it part( i have no doubt a seasoned SS would have done just that)..but he didn't,and it was hurried and thrown away...irt  saying we've all seen it..just sayin it could happen on a less rangy play as well... 

    [/QUOTE]

           GM Jete,

              My bad. I misread your post. I 'll go a point further and place some blame on Prince. No way that throw should have ended up in the sox dugout. Prince has to but his large frame in front of that throw. As for Iggy he is a rookie with a ton of defensive capability but not a starting SS in todays game.

              

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hingham Hammer. Show Hingham Hammer's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to RedSoxFireman's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    If you take out one incredibly hot streak he had Iggy


    If a frog had wings.

    Iggy came off the bench on a cool damp night and was in a tough spot. The decision to throw the ball with that kind of velocity was a rookie mistake. It kept the pitiful Red Sox lineup's hope alive long enough to allow for Manager Jim's signature move of incompetence. 

    S. Drew continued to show he has no business starting over Bogaerts, just as he had no business starting over Iglesias. Old bobble hands showed himself with a little league error, and continues to be a total embarrassment at the plate in the 2012 and 2013 playoffs. 

    S. Drew's on the way out the door for a reason, and it's not because he's Beltre;) He should have been on the bench, tonight, having him flopped against Sanchez and the entire 2012 and 2013 playoffs. Bogaerts should get the starts from here out, but pride and prejudice is middle management's speck.

    [/QUOTE]

           The more you post the dumber you sound.

           Excuse after excuse.

           Very clear that the success the Sox enjoyed this season has made your life a living h_ell.

           As for Iggy the reasons he is sitting on the Tigers bench are the same reasons the Sox had no reservations trading him.

           LOL Fireman.

           

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from S5. Show S5's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    In response to Beantowne's comment:
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    In response to moonslav59's comment:
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    My intent with this thread was not to bash him. If you asked specific to defense, not sure that many GM's would pick anyone but Iggy. Drew today is the better player

    I've been a huge Iggy supporter, but I simply see it like this for "right now":

    Drew + Peavy   >>>   Iggy + Dempster or Doubront

    [/QUOTE]

    Hard to argue with the net results of the deal. Cleary we're a beter team with Peavy in our rotation...Take Drew out of the argument in part because at no time during the season did they ever see Iglesias as the better player. That and the trade doesn't happen without Iglesias. The Tigers never would have traded Avicil Garcia for a player on the last year of his deal. not with Peralta coming back...Ultimately young Bogearts will have a say in how the trade of Iglesias will be viewed in 5 years. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ...and with Middy scheduled to come back to the bigs, like it or not, Iggy was going to become our 2013 utility IF'er.

    Once we accept that fate, to get a guy like Peavy (for 2 playoff cycles) for a UIF'er is is a no-brainer.

    The only caveat in the plan is that Bogey is probably a better 3Bman than SS, Middy a better 1Bman than 3Bman, and Iggy could have been the FT SS for many years to come, so the future Bogey vs Iggy comparison will not tell the whole story, just as it isn't necessarily Iggy vs Peralta, since Peralta can and has been moved to LF, so both can play at the same time.

    [/QUOTE]
    Thank you.  This is what I've been saying all along and you managed to capsulize it into one paragraph. 

    When that is combined with the lower salaries of the three IF'ers (excluding) Pedey going forward it's obvious that the Sox decided to go all out to win it THIS year.  It's not the decision I would have made, but they didn't ask me. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    The only caveat in the plan is that Bogey is probably a better 3Bman than SS, Middy a better 1Bman than 3Bman, and Iggy could have been the FT SS for many years to come, so the future Bogey vs Iggy comparison will not tell the whole story, just as it isn't necessarily Iggy vs Peralta, since Peralta can and has been moved to LF, so both can play at the same time.

    [/QUOTE]
    Thank you.  This is what I've been saying all along and you managed to capsulize it into one paragraph.  

    When that is combined with the lower salaries of the three IF'ers (excluding) Pedey going forward it's obvious that the Sox decided to go all out to win it THIS year.  It's not the decision I would have made, but they didn't ask me. 

    Since we have Peavy for 2 years, it's not all about "going all out for this year". Peavy helps us for 2014 as well.

    The financial argument is strong. Keeping Iggy and moving Bogey and Middy to 3B and 1B would have saved a lot of money, especially when subtracting Peavy's contract, but we'd still have a gaping hole in that all important playoff 4th starting pitcher slot.

    The improved defense argument is strong.

    However, the fact is, Ben and John seemingly were never going to give Iggy the FT job. I don't agree with that call, but once we all accept it for what it was (and would have been), then trading a utility IF'er for a top 30 or 40 MLB starting pitcher with 2 playoff cycles of team control can be viewed as brilliant. I know that initial supposition is the hard one to come to terms with, but it was the central factor of the trade decision.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Range factors into Iggy's error...

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
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    In response to jete02fan's comment:
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    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
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    In response to jete02fan's comment:
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    In response to kimsaysthis' comment:
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    In response to royf19's comment:
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    Forget about that error. On Salty's game-winning hit. If that had come against Boston and it was Drew at SS, all we would have heard on this board was that Iggy would have stopped it.

    Look -- Iggy is great defensively. But there was always this ridiculous notion that Iggy would never make an error and that he would get to EVERY ball in the area and that led to ridiculously high estimates on how many runs in a season he would prevent.

    [/QUOTE]

    Go Roy! So true.

    [/QUOTE] besides, all the range in the world doesn't disguise the fact that is was simply a hurried, errant throw...heck, i'm sure we've  all seen bad throws on balls hit right at the SS..


    [/QUOTE]

               "all seen bad throws"

                   Really not the point jete.

                   In a tie game bottom of 9 you eat that ball.

    As for the Sox chances the rest of the way it's like there playing with house money because nobody expected them to get this far to start with.

    The Sox future imo starts in 2014 forward.

    2013 is all gravy for Sox fans.

    [/QUOTE] morning 2H...i wasn't attempting to  make it "the point"...i totally agree on the eat it part( i have no doubt a seasoned SS would have done just that)..but he didn't,and it was hurried and thrown away...irt  saying we've all seen it..just sayin it could happen on a less rangy play as well... 

    [/QUOTE]

           GM Jete,

              My bad. I misread your post. I 'll go a point further and place some blame on Prince. No way that throw should have ended up in the sox dugout. Prince has to but his large frame in front of that throw. As for Iggy he is a rookie with a ton of defensive capability but not a starting SS in todays game.

              

    [/QUOTE]after having watched the replay...absolutely!!


     

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