Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

  1. This post has been removed.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    The Rays have locked up Matt Moore for the next five years for just 14 million dollars, significantly less than Boston's premier pariah makes in one year. Moore's deal has a number of incentives and escalator clauses that could sweeten the pot, but this is the kind of bargain the Rays have become known for. Has it really become impossible for the Red Sox to develop and sign pitchers like Moore?
    Posted by davetheknave


    Jon Lester.  Clay Buchholz.  They paid more money, but same situation.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    How can a team like TB  truly "go away"? 

    With a staff like this, it's hard to imagine them ever being "out of it"....  
    (Note the ages and number of team-controlled years)

    3-Shields     (29): '12 $7M, '13 $9M, '14 $12M
    4-D. Price   (25): $1.5M (then 3 arbs)
    5-W. Davis (25): 12:$1.5M, then$2.8M,:$4.8M, $7M (opt),$8M, $10M 
    3- Niemann    (28 ): 3 arbs to go
    2-Sonnanstine (28): 2 arbs left
    5-Hellickson    (24): pre-arb (5 years of control) 
    5-A. Cobb        (23): prearb (5 years of control)
    5-M. Moore     (22): prearb (5 years of control) *just signed for 5 yrs $14M

    1-Farnsworth (35)  $3.3M
    1-JP Howell   (28 ): last arb
    1-Peralta       (35): last arb
    5-C. Ramos   (27): prearb (5 years of control)
    6-J. McGee    (24): prearb (6 years of control)
    Plus: (all with 5-6 control years)  Gomes, Guyer, Torres, C. Archer, M. Bush, Suarez, De la Rosa, J. Llueke 

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    The Rays have locked up Matt Moore for the next five years for just 14 million dollars, significantly less than Boston's premier pariah makes in one year. Moore's deal has a number of incentives and escalator clauses that could sweeten the pot, but this is the kind of bargain the Rays have become known for. Has it really become impossible for the Red Sox to develop and sign pitchers like Moore?
    Posted by davetheknave



    These posters above are right.  It is cheaper to lock up a very young player by giving him a long term contract like Boston did it with Pedy, Youkilis, Bucholtz, Lester, etc.

    Plus Rays's farm system are 4 times something stronger than Boston's cuz Rays tended to lose free agents to get extra two picks as well they have traded alot of their own players for prospects.  That was how Rays keep reloading and reloading prospects every year.  It is easier to pick out couple best players with a large pool of players than Boston picking out best players with a very small pool of players!!


     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    Dave - just look at Pedey's salary for the last couple of years and the next several years. You will see where the Sox did the same exact thing.

    It is all a matter of timing and need.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    Let's just hope that TB never concentrates on acquiring hitting talent also or the AL East is in trouble.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season : These posters above are right.  It is cheaper to lock up a very young player by giving him a long term contract like Boston did it with Pedy, Youkilis, Bucholtz, Lester, etc. Plus Rays's farm system are 4 times something stronger than Boston's cuz Rays tended to lose free agents to get extra two picks as well they have traded alot of their own players for prospects.  That was how Rays keep reloading and reloading prospects every year.  It is easier to pick out couple best players with a large pool of players than Boston picking out best players with a very small pool of players!!
    Posted by GoUconn13


    The Rays also got higher draft picks for years because of their lower level in the standings. The result was what the MLB rules intended to do which is to level off the playing field and make uncompetitive teams more competitive.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    Let's just hope that TB never concentrates on acquiring hitting talent also or the AL East is in trouble.
    Posted by traven

    Watch Jennings and Joyce next year.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from WesternOregon. Show WesternOregon's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    So I'm reading this thread and you just have to mention Desmond Jennings. Speed, power, average, arm, glove...if he had played the whole season they would have won 3 or 4 more games.

    Wahhhhh!

    Third place looking over our shoulder at the Blue Jays because if Drabek and Morrow figure out how to be consistent? Their one/two beats ours hands down too.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season : These posters above are right.  It is cheaper to lock up a very young player by giving him a long term contract like Boston did it with Pedy, Youkilis, Bucholtz, Lester, etc. Plus Rays's farm system are 4 times something stronger than Boston's cuz Rays tended to lose free agents to get extra two picks as well they have traded alot of their own players for prospects.  That was how Rays keep reloading and reloading prospects every year.  It is easier to pick out couple best players with a large pool of players than Boston picking out best players with a very small pool of players!!
    Posted by GoUconn13


    The problem is, Boston waits until these guys are 24 or 25 till they give them a shot in the bigs, effectively wasting 3 or 4 productive years, and a chance to lock them up longer.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    I defer to the baseball experts, pitching coaches, and sports medicine gurus who make the determination on whether to rush a prospect to the major leagues or not. Sitting in my armchair I don't feel qualified to make such decisions. Those that make such decisions are paid well and have extensive travel budgets.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    "The problem is, Boston waits until these guys are 24 or 25 till they give them a shot in the bigs, effectively wasting 3 or 4 productive years, and a chance to lock them up longer."

    Give me some examples of this.  I think the Sox promote guys when they're ready for the next level.  Who in the minors right now should already be in the bigs??  They've had holes the past couple yrs and one of the big problems was they had nobody ready to step up.

    Face it, the Rays just have a much better minor league system,
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    The Rays have locked up Matt Moore for the next five years for just 14 million dollars, significantly less than Boston's premier pariah makes in one year. Moore's deal has a number of incentives and escalator clauses that could sweeten the pot, but this is the kind of bargain the Rays have become known for. Has it really become impossible for the Red Sox to develop and sign pitchers like Moore?
    Posted by davetheknave



    Obviously Moore didn't have a clue of his worth, or a good agent to deal for him.  The Rays got over big time on this kid.   
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season : The problem is, Boston waits until these guys are 24 or 25 till they give them a shot in the bigs, effectively wasting 3 or 4 productive years, and a chance to lock them up longer.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Shields was 24 in his first full season, Price 23, Hellickson 24.  The only guy the Rays have pushed quickly is Moore.  Its pretty standard practice in the bigs now to let starters develop til they are 24 or 25 or older as necessary.  It is not exclusive to the Sox.  And, if the Rays are a year or so ahead of the curve, it is out of necessity, as they are not able to go out and get guys on the market.  But they are generally bringing guys up around 24 anyway.  There is not much of a gap between these two approaches.  The Sox just a have the luxury of not needing to get guys up.  
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    SPACEMAN?In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season : Shields was 24 in his first full season, Price 23, Hellickson 24.  The only guy the Rays have pushed quickly is Moore.  Its pretty standard practice in the bigs now to let starters develop til they are 24 or 25 or older as necessary.  It is not exclusive to the Sox.  And, if the Rays are a year or so ahead of the curve, it is out of necessity, as they are not able to go out and get guys on the market.  But they are generally bringing guys up around 24 anyway.  There is not much of a gap between these two approaches.  The Sox just a have the luxury of not needing to get guys up.  
    Posted by SpacemanEephus


    spaceman don't forget Kasmir, the Rays killed the guys arm after trading for him.  He wasn't home grown but should have never pitched that many innings early on.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season : The problem is, Boston waits until these guys are 24 or 25 till they give them a shot in the bigs, effectively wasting 3 or 4 productive years, and a chance to lock them up longer.
    Posted by Alibiike


    Bringing guys up earlier, so that they can learn their trade while wasting control years, is not a smart way to go, imo.  You want a guy to start the pros as close as he can be at his best.  I'd rather use my control years on a pitcher 24-30 than use them on a pitcher 21-27.  28 is exactly the best time to be a FA.  That favors the player, not us.

    If you had to do it over again, would you have brought Buchholz up at 23, and gone 2-9, or would you have waiting another year?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    The Rays have locked up Matt Moore for the next five years for just 14 million dollars, significantly less than Boston's premier pariah makes in one year. Moore's deal has a number of incentives and escalator clauses that could sweeten the pot, but this is the kind of bargain the Rays have become known for. Has it really become impossible for the Red Sox to develop and sign pitchers like Moore?
    Posted by davetheknave


    ROTFLMAO!!!

    You didn't know that Lester and Buchholz were on the Red Sox?
     
  18. This post has been removed.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    Also, Tampa doesn't trade young pitching talent to get offensive help. 

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    Oh, and Tampa hasn't won a World series either.  They keep their kids, they don't trade for or sign for a big bat even if it's the last missing piece that will put them over the top.

    I'm sure Tampa fans (if there were any) complain that the team isn't willing to give up prospects to pick up veteran talent that can lead them to a WS ring.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    Oh, and Tampa hasn't won a World series either.  They keep their kids, they don't trade for or sign for a big bat even if it's the last missing piece that will put them over the top. I'm sure Tampa fans (if there were any) complain that the team isn't willing to give up prospects to pick up veteran talent that can lead them to a WS ring.
    Posted by DirtyWaterLover


    Yes, success is binary, either you win a WS trophy or else your team is a complete failure. Don't dare consider wins vs. losses as a yardstick of success.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from samclemens. Show samclemens's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In baseball wins vs losses during a 162 game season is the true yardstick of success because it is an objective measure of talent over time and the ability to overcome adversity.  Getting the opportunity to compete in a World Series is more often than not a matter of luck and timing in today's game and championships are more often than not meaningless and irrelevant other than to the fans of teams who celebrate them and the media which exaggerates their signficance.  Since the advent of the wildcard, there have been less than a handful of seasons in which the obviously best team won a championship by beating the obviously best team in the opposite league.  Those would be the two teams with the best record in their respective leagues. 
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    Obviously Moore didn't have a clue of his worth, or a good agent to deal for him.  The Rays got over big time on this kid.   

    Had Moore not signed, he would have gone through 1-2 pre-arb years and then 3-4 arb years and made about the same as he signed for. This way, it is guarnateed if he ever gets hurt or unexpectedly declines sharply.

    Most of these type player sign an extension before the arb years run out for 2 reasons:
    1) long-term security in case of injury or decline
    2) They make more money in the first few years compared to arb, but make a little less  than they possibly might have made through arb rulings towards the end years.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    In baseball wins vs losses during a 162 game season is the true yardstick of success because it is an objective measure of talent over time and the ability to overcome adversity.  Getting the opportunity to compete in a World Series is more often than not a matter of luck and timing in today's game and championships are more often than not meaningless and irrelevant other than to the fans of teams who celebrate them and the media which exaggerates their signficance.  Since the advent of the wildcard, there have been less than a handful of seasons in which the obviously best team won a championship by beating the obviously best team in the opposite league.  Those would be the two teams with the best record in their respective leagues. 
    Posted by samclemens


    Great post Sam. You are too intelligent for this forum. It woud be great if you stayed but my guess is that you won't.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sheriff-Rojas. Show Sheriff-Rojas's posts

    Re: Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season

    In Response to Rays sign Moore to a five year deal for less than Lackey makes in one season:
    The Rays have locked up Matt Moore for the next five years for just 14 million dollars, significantly less than Boston's premier pariah makes in one year. Moore's deal has a number of incentives and escalator clauses that could sweeten the pot, but this is the kind of bargain the Rays have become known for. Has it really become impossible for the Red Sox to develop and sign pitchers like Moore?
    Posted by davetheknave


    I guess you could say they got Moore for less. 

     
Sections
Shortcuts

Share