Real Red Sox fans know the truth

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    francona did more than screw up the bullpen - he screwed up the clubhouse too with his lax coma like behavior
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheExaminer. Show TheExaminer's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    I'm not as harsh on Tito as some have been, but it was time for him to go. He lost the team, and made some decisions last season that are hard to understand. I think V will be a nice change of pace--good for a few more wins over Tito at least for 2-3 years.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]francona did more than screw up the bullpen - he screwed up the clubhouse too with his lax coma like behavior
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]
    Yeah, he screwed up the whole darn ballclub, field action, clubhouse, and organization !
    Hmmm......86 years go by, NO WORLD SERIES WINS.

    Hire Francona, he successfully juggles over 25 egos a season, and the Sox WIN it all in 2004 AND 2007.
    Yeah, Georom, he really sucked.
    Just like YOU do , idiot !
     "Ignore" from now on, like Softy.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Posts: 373
    First: 4/2/2008
    Last: 2/11/2012
    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    francona did more than screw up the bullpen - he screwed up the clubhouse too with his lax coma like behavior
    Posted by georom4

    Yeah, he screwed up the whole darn ballclub, field action, clubhouse, and organization !
    Hmmm......86 years go by, NO WORLD SERIES WINS.

    Not saying that Francona was a bad Manager over the term of his stay with the Red Sox--- Just last year-- he needed to go.  Personally. I 'm not to fond of their choice of his replacement, but I am willing to play the wait and see approach.  A fresh outlook is what this team needed so lets hope it translates into 95 wins.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

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    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth : Yeah, he screwed up the whole darn ballclub, field action, clubhouse, and organization ! Hmmm......86 years go by, NO WORLD SERIES WINS. Hire Francona, he successfully juggles over 25 egos a season, and the Sox WIN it all in 2004 AND 2007. Yeah, Georom, he really sucked. Just like YOU do , idiot !  "Ignore" from now on, like Softy.
    Posted by jimedfred[/QUOTE]

    <flush />
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

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    In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]

    Well if you played sports and doesn't seem you know sh..it about team work. So it seems to me that your the one who's blinded and stupid. Chicken and beer destroyed the chemistry of a good baseball team.Also you must think that Manny kept the team together and the Media just got in the way.You have no clue and it seems you enjoy flapping you lips and thats a lack of knowing what the Hell you know about anything.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from jimedfred. Show jimedfred's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Probably over reacted and went off halfcocked.
    I've been mystified over the years by Francona's moves, or more particularly LACK of them. However his loyalty to players, steady hand and refusal to publicly panic or rip his players , coaches, or management in press was exemplary and successful.

    Bobby V. may work out, I've always found him interesting and somewhat non-traditional in outlook as an analyst. Might also be too over the top and meddlesome with tweaking everything too, the temptation to over-manage and show everyone how brilliant he is will be there.
    Francona had a personable lack of ego, and it may have cost him big time in 2011.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]

    You're right to a point. I think a bunch of the players and Francona admitted that the clubhouse culture wasn't too good and you can't overlook the effect it had when times got tough. Had the culture been better, the Sox might have been better able to overcome adversity when things got really tough in September.

    It's a sad statement about the players that Franocona's style of managing the players, which had been successful for seven years and led to two W.S. titles, didn't work last year. He treated the players like men when they acted like spoiled brats who needed a babysitter, not a professional manager.


    As for Francona and his handling of the bullpen, you're overlooking one huge point. When starters are getting lit up after three or four innings, no manager is going to be able to manage the bullpen w/o burning it out. Were you paying attention in September when it seem like nearly every game, the Sox were behind by four or five runs after a couple of innings.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Posts: 714
    First: 1/22/2006
    Last: 2/11/2012
    In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
    Posted by Yaso#7


    Well if you played sports and doesn't seem you know sh..it about team work. So it seems to me that your the one who's blinded and stupid. Chicken and beer destroyed the chemistry of a good baseball team.Also you must think that Manny kept the team together and the Media just got in the way.You have no clue and it seems you enjoy flapping you lips and thats a lack of knowing what the Hell you know about anything.


    LOL--- I know a whole lot about Managing a team and in game situations, since I been coaching Baseball for over 20 years.  I  by the way,  I also played Division 1 College Baseball. 

    My point to most of the Red Sox fans is that don't buy into what the media hacks keep rejurgatating over and over. 

    I real glad that you have it all figured out donrd4-- thanks for making my point and I 'll remember to include you in the group of morons that continues to drink the kool-aid that the media prints.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from georom4. Show georom4's posts

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    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]donrd4 Posts: 714 First: 1/22/2006 Last: 2/11/2012 8d1b7b34cfdc0dad05c6f1d4205a6fe8 In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth : Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club. Posted by Yaso#7 Well if you played sports and doesn't seem you know sh..it about team work. So it seems to me that your the one who's blinded and stupid. Chicken and beer destroyed the chemistry of a good baseball team.Also you must think that Manny kept the team together and the Media just got in the way.You have no clue and it seems you enjoy flapping you lips and thats a lack of knowing what the Hell you know about anything. LOL--- I know a whole lot about Managing a team and in game situations, since I been coaching Baseball for over 20 years.  I  by the way,  I also played Division 1 College Baseball.  My point to most of the Red Sox fans is that don't buy into what the media hacks keep rejurgatating over and over.  I real glad that you have it all figured out donrd4-- thanks for making my point and I 'll remember to include you in the group of morons that continues to drink the kool-aid that the media prints.
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]

    So because you played division 1 baseball, you know that what was reported about the Sox in spetember is not true?  Thanks, this clears it up for me! You should really tell Francona what you know - maybe he can get his job back...
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Yaso#7. Show Yaso#7's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

     
    So because you played division 1 baseball, you know that what was reported about the Sox in spetember is not true?  Thanks, this clears it up for me! You should really tell Francona what you know - maybe he can get his job back...
     
    No--- I believe its true to a certain extent, its just not the reason why the Red Sox Collapsed in September. 


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RedSoxKimmi. Show RedSoxKimmi's posts

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    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]   No--- I believe its true to a certain extent, its just not the reason why the Red Sox Collapsed in September. 
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]

    There is no one reason why the Red Sox collapsed.  Several factors, including the country club mentality, lack of conditioning, Francona, injuries, and more, all contributed to a certain extent.  A collapse as bad as the one the Red Sox experienced really is an anomaly that can't be easily explained.  So many factors had to come together in just the right way (actually the wrong way) in order for the Red Sox not to make the postseason after the lead that they had on Sept. 1.  The events alone on the last day of the season, with the way the Rays came back and won their game and the way the Red Sox were one strike away from winning their game, are incredible.

    As far as Francona is concerned, he made his share of poor in game decisions, but I haven't seen any evidence that convinces me that he was any worse than any other manager in that regard.  That said, I agree it was time for a change, and time for him to move on.

    I am not at all happy about Valentine being the manager.  However, I hope he is extremely successful as our manager because I want the Sox back in the playoffs.   
     
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

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    In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]  AS DAD WOULD SAY........   "SON, IT IS WHAT IT IS "!!!!!!!
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BostonTrollSpanker. Show BostonTrollSpanker's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    OP: your analysis works if you are talking about a little league team. 

    A team of grown men bears responsibility for their behavior. Chicken in the clubhouse was an image of an irresponsible approach to winning and fitness. 

    But yeah, go ahead and be myopic and run someone up on a stick. 


     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thomasmtom. Show Thomasmtom's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    It is true that Francona failed to adjust to changes in the team’s chemistry. However it is also true that Francona had a number of Free Agents signed by the front office he had to give playing time too. Lackey, Crawford, Jenks, Cameron, Wheeler, Dice-K and Drew were all injured or under performing for most of the season. Adding Bedard late in the year only added to the problems.

     The obvious move of sending Francona packing was to be expected. The reality was between bad signings, injuries and a few bad attitudes this team couldn’t overcome adversity. Francona was only a part of the problem, not the whole of it.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BurritoT. Show BurritoT's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    I will take a chance on Bobby V any day over more of the same from Tito.

    No more rolling over in April, no more resting 2 or 3 of your best players every Sunday, no more yanking a starter at 100 pitches with the game on the line and who is pitching well, no more wearing ponchos in 90 degree heat, and so much more.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Yeah, once we traded Manny, we lost the clubhouse leadership and chemistry, which began the era of the losing culture.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

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    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]I will take a chance on Bobby V any day over more of the same from Tito. No more rolling over in April, no more resting 2 or 3 of your best players every Sunday, no more yanking a starter at 100 pitches with the game on the line and who is pitching well, no more wearing ponchos in 90 degree heat, and so much more.
    Posted by BurritoT[/QUOTE]

    I'm a Bobby V fan, but nobody's perfect; if/when that happens, will the bloom be off the rose?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from kimsaysthis. Show kimsaysthis's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]

    I agree. A pitcher who's only in the game every five days being the cause of a complete collapse of a team is ludicrous. They're not even talking about players who were actually on the field when games were lost. It's mind-numbing, and kinda gives everyone else a free pass.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]Its sad that a whole bunch of you fools actually take what the media writes about as being fact--- when it is simply second or third hand fabrications just to try to sell newspapers. The Red Sox September colapse was due to injuries, poor pitching, and really bad Managing of the bullpen throughout the season which caught up to them @ the end of the season. Simply put, Francona lost them @ least 6 to 8 games on his own, and if you all that keep blaming "Fried Chicken and Beer in the Clubhouse Gate", your crazy and stupid. Mazz can spin it anyway he wants, but the losing Culture is a clear reflection on the teams lack of leadership and trust in the Manager of the Ball Club.
    Posted by Yaso#7[/QUOTE]

    you are 100% correct that the beer/chicken thing was inconsequential.

    But blaming Francona and the bullpen?  The pen was overworked because the starters ewre not gettig it done, for a variety of reasons, mostly because the rotation featured a lot of names it was never intentioned to feature.

    You are right about some things.  Don't jeopardize it by being one of those "Baseball 101" manager critic guys. Because everytime I see one of those posts, I find that the Baseball 101 answer is fine for Nintendo RBI Baseball, but MLB is managed at the graduate level...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from donrd4. Show donrd4's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth : So because you played division 1 baseball, you know that what was reported about the Sox in spetember is not true?  Thanks, this clears it up for me! You should really tell Francona what you know - maybe he can get his job back...
    Posted by georom4[/QUOTE]

    Right on ! ..Don't you just hate guys who think they know it all and really have no clue to what they say.Making things up and acting like they can come on here and tell us the real reasons why it happend. For all we know he could have played  Division 1 TEE -BALL.....
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    In Response to Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Real Red Sox fans know the truth : you are 100% correct that the beer/chicken thing was inconsequential. But blaming Francona and the bullpen?  The pen was overworked because the starters ewre not gettig it done, for a variety of reasons, mostly because the rotation featured a lot of names it was never intentioned to feature. You are right about some things.  Don't jeopardize it by being one of those "Baseball 101" manager critic guys. Because everytime I see one of those posts, I find that the Baseball 101 answer is fine for Nintendo RBI Baseball, but MLB is managed at the graduate level...
    Posted by notin[/QUOTE]

    I'd guess that the beer was inconsequential.  I doubt he picked 9/1/11 to start drinking beer and eating chicken.

    He was probably drinking when he won his first WS ring v the NYY.
    He was probably drinking when he won with the RS in 2007.
    He was probably drinking when we had the best record in BB for four months.

    Once he was injured, and we were down to one healthy SP, did the drinking become a problem?

    From 8/16-9/6, Lester was 4-0 with a 1.16.  From 9/11-9/28, he was 0-3 with an 8.24.  Did Beckett force him to drink something in the 5 days in between 9/6-9/11 that caused that implosion?

    From 4/8-8/31, Bard was about the best pitcher in BB with a 1.37.  From then on, he had a 10.64.  Was Bard another guy that Beckett forced to drink?

    I think some of the posters are being way too simplistic in analyzing what went wrong.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from hankwilliamsjr. Show hankwilliamsjr's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Wrong, see Tim Wastefield loss after loss after loss after loss after loss, after each embarrassing ceremonial performance.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Real Red Sox fans know the truth

    Yeah, the Cards won despite losing Wainwright to a season-long injury, but "real Red Sox fans know the truth": our players over-achieved for 4 months and all the injuries finally caught up with them.

    2011 Key Injuries:
    #3 starter (Buchholtz) missed 19 starts.
    #4 starter (Dice-K) missed 25 starts.
    #5 starter (Lackey) pitched hurt all season (6.41 ERA)
    #7 starter (Doubront) was out basically all season (10 IP).
    #1 starter (Beckett) missed 2-3 crucial starts.
    #4 relief pitcher (Jenks) basically missed the whole season (16 IP).
    #5 relief pitcher (Wheeler)missed about a thrid of the season.
    #7 relief pitcher (R Hill) missed most of the season
    3B/best hitter vs RHPs (Youk)missed 35 games and played hurt in others.
    RF (Drew) missed half the season and never got on track.
    SS (Scutaro) missed about 20% of the season.
    LF (Crawford) missed about 15-20% of the season.
    IF (Lowrie) missed a good part of the season.
    C (VTek) missed the last game of the season (called huge by mr hanky)

    Yes, every team has multiple injuries, but anyone who really expected a pitching staff like this to not have a rough streak somewhere in the season, and instead is blaming the collapse on beer and chicken, needs to re-examine the whole picture...

    S1 Beckett (missing starts & pitching hurt at the end)
    S2 Lester (pitched poorly in last few games)
    S3 Wakefield (#6/7 starter forced into the 3 slot)
    S4 Bedard (Injured for some key starts)
    S5 Lackey (Pitching injured and poorly)
    S6+ Miller & Weiland (17 starts)

    40 starts from Wake, Miller, and Weiland
    28 starts from an injured Lackey
    19 starts from Bedard, possibly injured Dice-K, and Aceves

    Real Sox fans should look long and hard at these 87 starts a bit more than Beckett's last 2 starts and 1-2 missed starts.

     
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