Realistic Yankee Thread

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    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    In Response to Re: Realistic Yankee Thread:
    [QUOTE]It is difficult at times to have true conversations about baseball, NY/Boston rivalry and expectations going into Spring Training. Too much fluff and not enough stuff. Hope this changes once the season starts. Yeah, it's a slow point in the season, but a few times I came to this thread, all I read for quite a few posts were "see ya next Wednesday", "how's your brother", "where ya been?" type posts. Moon - NY has made a multi-year offer to Martin. No $ have been mentioned or years, but he is in this year for 7.5 million. His agent said no and has not gotten back to NY with a counter offer. Do you see Martin's agent trying to play hardball now that Montero has been traded or does he really think Martin will morph back into a .280 hitter? How badly can this backfire on him or NY? I'm not too high on Martin. (It has nothing to do with him being a Yank.) He's probably better than average, but not worth a huge longterm deal. 2011 OPS (Catchers over 250 PAs) 13) .737  Salty 14) .732  Martin 17) .723  VTek
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]
    Moon,

    Admittedly, Martin's best offensive days are behind him, partly due to catcher wear & tear; he's nicked up pretty bad, and with their young catchers waiting in the wings, I doubt they sign him. However, you have now succumbed to what you try to accuse Jeter posters of, which is looking at a player from the offensive side only. You really want to compare those guys in 2011 to Martin defensively? Really? Did it ever occur to you there must be a few reasons Martin was voted by players & coaches to be a backup on the AS team last yr? How about the fact that pitchers love to throw to him, ala Varitek ? What goes around comes around.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RhapsodyInBlue. Show RhapsodyInBlue's posts

    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    Martin is a good solid defensive catcher lacks a consistent bat but for where the Yankees are right now (waiting for JR Murphy or Sanchez) a very good option. ;-)
     
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    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    Catching is more than just throwing, blocking the plate, and fielding bunts.

    I haven't done a lot of research on Martin's handling of pitchers, but I think Cervelli did better with most pitchers that they both caught a significant amount of time.
     
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    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    Team record:
    w Martin     67-51  .568
    w Cervelli  25-10  .625
     
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    [QUOTE]Catching is more than just throwing, blocking the plate, and fielding bunts. I haven't done a lot of research on Martin's handling of pitchers, but I think Cervelli did better with most pitchers that they both caught a significant amount of time.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    No kidding; whoever said differently? Is this just an attempt to rebut? Also, Martin doesn't have a  "Posada problem" with pitchers (like I've mentioned already) and errant pitches.
     
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    [QUOTE]Catching is more than just throwing, blocking the plate, and fielding bunts. I haven't done a lot of research on Martin's handling of pitchers, but I think Cervelli did better with most pitchers that they both caught a significant amount of time.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    No comparison with the defensive skills between martin and Cervelli, night and day.

    Martin much more polished defender than Cervelli.

    Cervelli an emotional guy has come up with some big RBIs but is not the catcher that martin is.

    You won't get an argument on my take from any yankee fan.
     
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    [QUOTE]Team record: w Martin     67-51  .568 w Cervelli  25-10  .625
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    When you manage the Yankees (Perhaps the paycheck would entice you), you can start Cervelli. 

    He is NOT an everyday catcher, and his throwing is horrendous; I would take Tek's throwing oer his right now. Yes, he's a spunky player ... on the pine.

    Comparing W/L record to Martin, especially given the sample size, really doesn't say a whole lot either (Why didn't you compare him to Salty? Good question; probably because it doesn't provide the illiustrative effect).
     
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  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lowelll. Show lowelll's posts

    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Realistic Yankee Thread : No comparison with the defensive skills between martin and Cervelli, night and day. Martin much more polished defender than Cervelli. Cervelli an emotional guy has come up with some big RBIs but is not the catcher that martin is. You won't get an argument on my take from any yankee fan.
    Posted by RhapsodyInBlue[/QUOTE]

    You are new here. Are you Zac, are you J-Bay, are you Babe, are you TWM? Just checking.
     
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    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    In Response to Re: Realistic Yankee Thread:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Realistic Yankee Thread : You are new here. Are you Zac, are you J-Bay, are you Babe, are you TWM? Just checking.
    Posted by lowelll[/QUOTE]

    Huh?


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    I never said I'd start Cervelli over Martin. You guys read what you think people are saying. I was merely pointing out that catching is more than CS%, blocking pitches and fielding bunts, it involves getting the best out of your staff. 

    I said, "I haven't done a lot of research" on this matter, so I am not saying I know Martin does not get the best from his staff. He was new with the Yankee staff last year. Cervelli knew them better. 

    My point is that I am not sure his "defense" is good enough to offset his possible limitations on game-calling, handling pitchers (emotionally and otherwise), and other catcher intangibles not measured by stats.

    He might be better than Cervelli with the staff this year. I just wanted to point out that it appears the pitching staff did better with Cervelli than Martin. If that does not concern Yankee fans, then so be it.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from RhapsodyInBlue. Show RhapsodyInBlue's posts

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    [QUOTE]I never said I'd start Cervelli over Martin. You guys read what you think people are saying. I was merely pointing out that catching is more than CS%, blocking pitches and fielding bunts, it involves getting the best out of your staff.  I said, "I haven't done a lot of research" on this matter, so I am not saying I know Martin does not get the best from his staff. He was new with the Yankee staff last year. Cervelli knew them better.  My point is that I am not sure his "defense" is good enough to offset his possible limitations on game-calling, handling pitchers (emotionally and otherwise), and other catcher intangibles not measured by stats. He might be better than Cervelli with the staff this year. I just wanted to point out that it appears the pitching staff did better with Cervelli than Martin. If that does not concern Yankee fans, then so be it.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    There has been talk in camp that Cervelli is having arm problems.
     
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    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    Comparing W/L record to Martin, especially given the sample size, really doesn't say a whole lot either (Why didn't you compare him to Salty? Good question; probably because it doesn't provide the illiustrative effect).

    I am not a Salty fan. I have called for trading him and letting Lava start.

    I'd take Martin over Salty easily.

    This isn't about me being a Sox fan. I was very concerned about Salty's handling of the Sox staff last year and took a lot of grief (with harness) over the issue.

    Handling the staff and getting the most out of the pitcher on the mound is the number one priority of any catcher. BA, CS%, WPs & PBs are all secondary.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from nhsteven. Show nhsteven's posts

    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

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    [QUOTE]Comparing W/L record to Martin, especially given the sample size, really doesn't say a whole lot either (Why didn't you compare him to Salty? Good question; probably because it doesn't provide the illiustrative effect). I am not a Salty fan. I have called for trading him and letting Lava start. I'd take Martin over Salty easily. This isn't about me being a Sox fan. I was very concerned about Salty's handling of the Sox staff last year and took a lot of grief (with harness) over the issue. Handling the staff and getting the most out of the pitcher on the mound is the number one priority of any catcher. BA, CS%, WPs & PBs are all secondary.
    Posted by moonslav59[/QUOTE]

    Agree, and, to repeat, Martin appears to handle pitchers well; you don't approve of Salty, fine, I could see that, however let's not forget the origin of the debate, comparing OPS of the 3 catchers in mention (less Cervelli).

    Also, you seem to be in love with OPS; while it's perhaps my favorite offensive modern stat, it's not the be all and end all. Example:I'd rather have a leadoff hitter, (relatively speaking), with a better OBP than OPS. Conversely (again, all things being equal), I'd like a hitter down the lineupto have a better SLG than OPS. Case in point - I don't want my 6th place hitter to walk 212 times with 0 knocks, and my leadoff hitter to walk 2x with 20 triples, 30 homers, and a 320 BA .

     
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    Re: Realistic Yankee Thread

    Agree, and, to repeat, Martin appears to handle pitchers well; you don't approve of Salty, fine, I could see that, however let's not forget the origin of the debate, comparing OPS of the 3 catchers in mention (less Cervelli).

    I'm not so sure martin handles pitchers "well". maybe well enough, but last year was concerning.

    Also, you seem to be in love with OPS; while it's perhaps my favorite offensive modern stat, it's not the be all and end all. 

    I know this and have said the same often times. For offense, it is generally the best single stat that people understand. (I know OB% is more important than Slg%.)

    Example:I'd rather have a leadoff hitter, (relatively speaking), with a better OBP than OPS. Conversely (again, all things being equal), I'd like a hitter down the lineupto have a better SLG than OPS. Case in point - I don't want my 6th place hitter to walk 212 times with 0 knocks, and my leadoff hitter to walk 2x with 20 triples, 30 homers, and a 320 BA .

    Agreed.
     

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