Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Flapjack07. Show Flapjack07's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    This could have turned out badly for Boston in ways having nothing to do with A-Rod. Lester's going to Texas in the deal along with Manny is the aspect most people forget about...and though Edes wrote that Ordonez "would have combined with A-Rod to more than compensate for the loss of right-handed power Ramirez represented," the reality is that Magglio missed a ton of time with injuries over the couple of seasons after this. (Though you might be able to argue that Rodriguez + Ordonez still beats Ramirez and our various post-Nomar shortstops.)

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hingham Hammer's comment:
    [QUOTE]


              "horrible defensive SS"

                   A bit over the top.

    [/QUOTE]


    No, not over the top at all.  Moon speaks the truth.

    Jeter is a horrible defensive SS.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If Jeter had moved to 3B when they got ARod, then Jeter wouldn't have been the worst SS anymore.

    Since 1995, there are 26 qualifying SSs.

    Jeter places 26th in UZR at -67.8

    The second worst guy is not even close:

    -50.6 Betancourt

    -46.2 HanRam

    -33.4 Tejada

    -22.1 Furcal

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bigpapa1977. Show Bigpapa1977's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    [/QUOTE]

    If Jeter had moved to 3B when they got ARod, then Jeter wouldn't have been the worst SS anymore.

    Since 1995, there are 26 qualifying SSs.

    Jeter places 26th in UZR at -67.8

    The second worst guy is not even close:

    -50.6 Betancourt

    -46.2 HanRam

    -33.4 Tejada

    -22.1 Furcal

    [/QUOTE]

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=826&position=SS


    Stats can support any argument.  One, UZR is a cumulative statistic.  The more you play, the more opportunity for accumulating good/bad numbers.  Two, if you take out his three worst seasons (2005, 2007 and 2012), then the UZR drops to -20.8... not great, but certainly not as glaring as -67.8. Three, his UZR in 2009 was a positive 6.3 and he had two other seasons where his UZR was -0.1 (2002 and 2008). 

    The point being, he has had some tough defensive years that negatively skewed his UZR, but I would hardly consider him the worst defensive SS of our time.  The worst (recent) defensive season that I can remember was Edgar Rentaria in 2005 and he only had a -8.5 UZR. Are you telling me that Jeter was significantly worse (-15.0 in 2005)?  I don't think so.

    By the way, Manny Ramirez had a horrific UZR of -115.1 and he was pretty valuable for the Red Sox.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=210&position=OF

     

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [/QUOTE]

    If Jeter had moved to 3B when they got ARod, then Jeter wouldn't have been the worst SS anymore.

    Since 1995, there are 26 qualifying SSs.

    Jeter places 26th in UZR at -67.8

    The second worst guy is not even close:

    -50.6 Betancourt

    -46.2 HanRam

    -33.4 Tejada

    -22.1 Furcal

    [/QUOTE]

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=826&position=SS


    Stats can support any argument.  One, UZR is a cumulative statistic.  The more you play, the more opportunity for accumulating good/bad numbers.  Two, if you take out his three worst seasons (2005, 2007 and 2012), then the UZR drops to -20.8... not great, but certainly not as glaring as -67.8. Three, his UZR in 2009 was a positive 6.3 and he had two other seasons where his UZR was -0.1 (2002 and 2008). 

    The point being, he has had some tough defensive years that negatively skewed his UZR, but I would hardly consider him the worst defensive SS of our time.  The worst (recent) defensive season that I can remember was Edgar Rentaria in 2005 and he only had a -8.5 UZR. Are you telling me that Jeter was significantly worse (-15.0 in 2005)?  I don't think so.

    By the way, Manny Ramirez had a horrific UZR of -115.1 and he was pretty valuable for the Red Sox.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=210&position=OF

     

     

    [/QUOTE]The DESPICABLE MAN-RAM was a JUICER, FRAUD,HUMAN BEING !!!


     
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  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bill-806. Show Bill-806's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    In response to tvfrank's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Bill-806's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    In response to Bigpapa1977's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    If Jeter had moved to 3B when they got ARod, then Jeter wouldn't have been the worst SS anymore.

     

    Since 1995, there are 26 qualifying SSs.

    Jeter places 26th in UZR at -67.8

    The second worst guy is not even close:

    -50.6 Betancourt

    -46.2 HanRam

    -33.4 Tejada

    -22.1 Furcal

    [/QUOTE]

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=826&position=SS


    Stats can support any argument.  One, UZR is a cumulative statistic.  The more you play, the more opportunity for accumulating good/bad numbers.  Two, if you take out his three worst seasons (2005, 2007 and 2012), then the UZR drops to -20.8... not great, but certainly not as glaring as -67.8. Three, his UZR in 2009 was a positive 6.3 and he had two other seasons where his UZR was -0.1 (2002 and 2008). 

    The point being, he has had some tough defensive years that negatively skewed his UZR, but I would hardly consider him the worst defensive SS of our time.  The worst (recent) defensive season that I can remember was Edgar Rentaria in 2005 and he only had a -8.5 UZR. Are you telling me that Jeter was significantly worse (-15.0 in 2005)?  I don't think so.

    By the way, Manny Ramirez had a horrific UZR of -115.1 and he was pretty valuable for the Red Sox.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=210&position=OF

     

     

    [/QUOTE]The DESPICABLE MAN-RAM was a JUICER, FRAUD,HUMAN BEING !!!


    [/QUOTE]

    Bill describes Manny as despicable, but is a big fan of Softy. Now one can understand why debating with Bill is as useless as a screen door on a submarine.

    [/QUOTE]Now that was funny !!!


     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    In response to MikeNagy's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Hetchinspete's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to MikeNagy's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

     

    A lot of ARod's greatness was artificial. I think he would have turned out to be an embarrassment anywhere he went.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I'm not an A-Rod fan and didn't want him here in 2004 but what's artificial about a player with 19-20 years in MLB with 654hrs, close to 2000rbis, over 1900runs, 2075bbs, .384obp, with a lifetime.942ops and 3 MVP award plus a 14 time all-star. My next statement is only a wild guess but here goes:

     

    A-Rod was a great player for many years, probably a good team player but has been guilty of reading his own press clippings for too many years and it's gone to his head.

    Now a shadow of his former self he's a rather sad figure.    

    Hetch 

    [/QUOTE]

    I was just referring to the Roids. No doubt he had a lot of talent, but what would his clean numbers have been. I don't know about the team player either.  Funny, Seattle and Texas both had much better records the year after he left them.

    I can't really pity him with all his lying.

    [/QUOTE]

    I did that analysis once and the NYY fans went nuts.  TX finished 1st in 2-3 season prior to ARod joining them, and then finished last in all three of his seasons.  They went from 71 wins to 89 wins when he left.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    In response to RedSoxKimmi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Joebreidey's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    FWIW, the problem was not the original trade.  I think a lot of people, the authoer included, think of the trade as a 2004-2013 thing.  Had history unfolded along similar lines, it is unlikely we'd have re-signed him after 2007 when he opted out.

    The problem for the NYY wasn't the first 4 years, it was their meltdown after ARod opted out, followed by Hank's decision to outbid Hal by $100M for his services.

    [/QUOTE]

    Exactly.  ARod, in his prime,  is one of the few players for whom I would have broken the bank.  And if I'm not mistaken, Texas was paying a good chunk of the remaining original contract.

    I was not happy when the Yankees got Arod instead of us.  Same thing with Teixeira.  But, it worked out well for the Sox in both cases.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    I remember some of my coworkers were really upset when the NYY got ARod.  I didn't have the same reaction, but it did look pretty daunting.  They had won 103 and 101 in the two previous years.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Marioguy424. Show Marioguy424's posts

    Re: Red Sox, A-Rod courtship revisited ...

    Personally, I don't think A-Rod spent all of his time in TEX and NY on the juice. His 2001-2003, 2005, and 2007 years were remarkably similar in production, and he was almost certainly on steroids in these years. On the other hand, 2004, 2006, 2008, and perhaps even 2009 (if you consider his injury lowered his statistics) were also remarkably similar to each other, and that's what I think A-Rod's talent sans-steroids was: very good, perhaps great in 1 or 2 years, but not amazing.

     
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