Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox0426. Show redsox0426's posts

    Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    At this point, the Red Sox are well on their way to making the playoffs in 2011. Even still, steps could be made to improve the team at the trade deadline. The Red Sox are one major piece away from truly contending for the pennant in the next handful of years. 
    They could get a top SS to soldify the middle infield for years to come or add a stud starting pitcher to really round out the rotation. The Red Sox should pursue a player that they could have control of for many years. Pedey, Youk A-Gon, Crawford, Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, and Lackey will be here for a while. With the contracts of Drew, Ortiz, Papelbon coming off the books, Red Sox should have about 15 million payroll flexibility (after factoring in more money for A-Gon's new contract and Ellsbury in arbitration)
    Earlier today, Theo said that he believes the depth in the farm system is currently very strong and would be willing to give up prospects in the right deal (they shouldn't trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Ranuado).
    Does anyone else feel that the Red Sox are just one piece away from having that ideal lineup or that dominant starting rotation? Maybe pursue Hanley, Felix, or a player no one is talking about.


     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    They have been a perennial playoff contender since 2003.

    It's just that some years they fell flat and didn't "contend" at the end of the season.

    Injuries, sub par seasons from high paid players, etc. have contributed to the team either not making the playoffs or losing in the first round.

    There is no guarantee that acquiring that one "stud" player will make this team more of a contender than what they are right now.

    GM's must juggle their roster every year to remain a contender. Out with the non productive, in with the guy who should impact your lineup. Out with the aging players, in with the younger prospect. The problem is sometimes the older guy still has something in the tank (Ortiz, Varitek), and the younger guy isn't ready(Lars Anderson,Wagner), sometimes the guy who looks like a "slam dunk" is a flop (Daisuke Matsuzaka, J.D.Drew). GM's roll the dice each year and hope the "stud" players (Gonzalez , Saltalmacchia, Crawford) they "gamble" on pay off.This year so far, so good, but losing in the early rounds of playoffs can change all that real quick.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxpride34. Show redsoxpride34's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    yeah i was intruiged by theo stating that the sox have enough prospect to make a move. I have a feeling hunter pence is coming to beantown. If the sox were sold on reddick they would not be showing so much interest in a guy like beltran(who cannot be offered arb therefore the sox would not get any draft pick compensation for him) and I am sure the sox are really interested in pence as well. The beltran interest may just be a smoke screen to hide their interest in hunter pence.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from maxbialystock. Show maxbialystock's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    Agree with zillagod. 

    In fact, I think Theo got that one player last offseason--Adrian Gonzalez. 

    A very good righty hitting outfielder and/or SS would be nice, but it has to be the right deal and the right guy.  Right now I think Theo is in a good situation:  he can afford to be picky.  Getting Salty was a big gamble that worked.  Getting AGon was no gamble that has worked even better than expected. 

    Even getting Crawford has helped the Sox a little and, I think, hurt the Rays a lot.  The Rays sure look like they are fading fast despite a pretty good pitching staff.  With Longoria back, their lineup still isn't very productive without Crawford. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox0426. Show redsox0426's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]yeah i was intruiged by theo stating that the sox have enough prospect to make a move. I have a feeling hunter pence is coming to beantown. If the sox were sold on reddick they would not be showing so much interest in a guy like beltran(who cannot be offered arb therefore the sox would not get any draft pick compensation for him) and I am sure the sox are really interested in pence as well. The beltran interest may just be a smoke screen to hide their interest in hunter pence.
    Posted by redsoxpride34[/QUOTE]

    I think Pence would be a great fit in Boston. Has the makings of a 5-tool player...do you think there is a way Sox could get Pence without having to give up Reddick (even if it means giving up Kalish)?

     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    I think they need someone in the rotation.  They'll make the playoffs without making any moves, but if they have to go into the post season with Lackey, Miller, or Wake as their Number 3 starter, then they could be in trouble.

    If Buch gets healthy, then they'll be OK, but I'm not sure I'd want to take that risk.  But even if he is healthy, I'd be happier if the 4 and 5 spots in the rotation weren't filled by Lackey/miller/Wake.  Lackey is pitching, at best, like a #5 starter and Miller/Wake are really spot starters.  Wake has been doing a serviceable job, but he'll eventually reach a point where his body starts breaking down.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from can-you-dig-it. Show can-you-dig-it's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    sox are a lock for the playoffs, no need to make any changes.  Where are all the yankee fans to brag about thier ancient, hobbled team from the bandbox?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rickerd2. Show rickerd2's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention : I think Pence would be a great fit in Boston. Has the makings of a 5-tool player...do you think there is a way Sox could get Pence without having to give up Reddick (even if it means giving up Kalish)?
    Posted by redsox0426[/QUOTE]

    Get Wandy and Pence.  Go full-in.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]Does anyone else feel that the Red Sox are just one piece away from having that ideal lineup or that dominant starting rotation? Maybe pursue Hanley, Felix, or a player no one is talking about.
    Posted by redsox0426[/QUOTE]
    The Red Sox have the hitting to contend regardless, but the starting rotation is far more than piece away from being dominant:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention : The Red Sox have the hitting to contend regardless, but the starting rotation is far more than piece away from being dominant: http://www.fangraphs.com/teams.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]
    Based off what? A high ERA from Lackey and Dice-K (no longer in rotation). Buch hasn't been pitching, Lester's started to miss starts. Draft it up, Beck, Lester, Buch, that alone is a dominate rotation. Injuries happen, but ignoring how good those three can be because of the wear and tear of a season is foolish.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from dustcover. Show dustcover's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    do you think there is a way Sox could get Pence without having to give up Reddick (even if it means giving up Kalish)?
    Posted by redsox0426[/QUOTE]

    IF, (and I capitalize if intentionally), Pence is the stretch-run and future RF for the Sox, why is retaining Reddick and/or Kalish so important?

    With Crawford in LF, Els in CF, and Pence in RF, this future outfield leaves little playing time for Reddish or Kalish.  And, please do not argue that the Sox may lose Els to free agency.  Neither Reddish nor Kalish are everyday centerfielders.  And to keep either as a backup 4th outfielder would seem to me a waste of valuable trading chips, particularly if they could be used to strengthen the pitching staff.   
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsox0426. Show redsox0426's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [ IF, (and I capitalize if intentionally), Pence is the stretch-run and future RF for the Sox, why is retaining Reddick and/or Kalish so important? With Crawford in LF, Els in CF, and Pence in RF, this future outfield leaves little playing time for Reddish or Kalish.  And, please do not argue that the Sox may lose Els to free agency.  Neither Reddish nor Kalish are everyday centerfielders.  And to keep either as a backup 4th outfielder would seem to me a waste of valuable trading chips, particularly if they could be used to strengthen the pitching staff.   
    Posted by dustcover[/QUOTE]

    Having Reddick as a 4th OF would be a valuable asset for this team. You never know when injuries will happen to one or even two OF's as we saw in 2010. Also, if the Sox decide to let Ortiz go at the end of the season, they may go to a flex-type DH option, with Lavarnway getting some of the at-bats at the position, but also allowing certain players to rest. In the past series against the Orioles, the Sox saw the value of allowing Ellsbury, Crawford, and A-Gon the chance to DH with Ortiz serving his suspension. Although Ortiz is a great hitter, not having a full-time DH could be better for the Sox.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from thewags. Show thewags's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    If we are going to do a blockbuster trade at the deadline, might as well go after reyes. I know he's "unavailable" but if we are going to give up a whole lotta farm talent, might as well get the best player available. I know the crawford situation hasnt played out yet, and he may well make me eat my words, but he is not the explosive player thus far that the sox paid huge money for. He is an extremely solid player with the phenomenal work ethic that is consistent with the RS dirt-dog model, but he is NOT worth the money that we paid for him.

    Gonzalez, on the other hand, very much IS that player, and so is Reyes. Bottom line is, Crawford is a star, an excellent player, and Gonzalez is a superstar, a phenom. If we are going to trade for someone, I would sooner save up our chips for a phenomenal player than for someone who is "just" extremely good.

    I dont know, maybe I'm wrong about Crawford, Im not speaking with a whole lot of certainty, and I have certainly been wrong about players before. But SS is another gaping hole for the sox that needs to be filled eventually, and the sox do have the capital to chase reyes. I would honestly rather see a deal for a small piece, cash only or a trade of an existing player, like LaRoche for Kotchman or something of that ilk. I'm just saying if we go for it, we should go huge. I count Pence as huge too, ftr, i just like reyes better with this team/considering reddick.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention : Based off what? A high ERA from Lackey and Dice-K (no longer in rotation). Buch hasn't been pitching, Lester's started to miss starts. Draft it up, Beck, Lester, Buch, that alone is a dominate rotation. Injuries happen, but ignoring how good those three can be because of the wear and tear of a season is foolish.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]
    In other words, the Red Sox could have a dominant rotation but for all the shortcomings you listed.

    Josh Beckett currently ranks 18th in WAR* among all starters, Jon Lester 41st and Clay Buchholz 74th (if Buchholz had enough innings to qualify):

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0

    * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Your-Echo. Show Your-Echo's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    I will be glad when Aug. 1 arrives and hope that the Red Sox stand pat.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention : In other words, the Red Sox could have a dominant rotation but for all the shortcomings you listed. Josh Beckett currently ranks 18th in WAR* among all starters, Jon Lester 41st and Clay Buchholz 74th (if Buchholz had enough innings to qualify): http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=0&season1=2011&ind=0 * Wins Above Replacement as reported at FanGraphs
    Posted by hill55[/QUOTE]

    Saying that our rotation is far from set because of injuries is foolish. If we were looking at a distance between us and first, going and getting a guy to bridge the gap between injured and health and get us into October would be necessary, but we aren't. Come August our pitching will be healthy. Stats alone do not tell a story.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention : Saying that our rotation is far from set because of injuries is foolish. If we were looking at a distance between us and first, going and getting a guy to bridge the gap between injured and health and get us into October would be necessary, but we aren't. Come August our pitching will be healthy. Stats alone do not tell a story.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]
    I never suggested that Red Sox rotation was "far from set" or that the Sox needed to trade for a starting pitcher. On the contrary, I wrote that the Red Sox have the hitting to contend regardless.

    I simply took issue to any reference to the Boston rotation being near "dominant."
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from NUSoxFan. Show NUSoxFan's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In a playoff series you run 3 guys out there, and if you can run 3 dominant guys out there each time, you're dominent. WAR factors in things such as total innings pitched very highly. WAR is not meant to be used when talking about playoff dominance.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]In a playoff series you run 3 guys out there, and if you can run 3 dominant guys out there each time, you're dominent. WAR factors in things such as total innings pitched very highly. WAR is not meant to be used when talking about playoff dominance.
    Posted by NUSoxFan[/QUOTE]
    In their last postseason appearance, the Red Sox "ran out" Jon Lester, Josh Beckett and Clay Buchholz as the Los Angeles Angels swept the 2009 ACDS:

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/postseason/2009_ALDS2.shtml

    In his last four postseason starts, Josh Beckett has an ERA of 7.71.

    In his last three postseason starts, Jon Lester has an ERA of 5.00.

    Clay Buchholz surrendered only one run over 6.2 innings in his only postseason appearance.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]If we are going to do a blockbuster trade at the deadline, might as well go after reyes. I know he's "unavailable" but if we are going to give up a whole lotta farm talent, might as well get the best player available.Posted by thewags[/QUOTE]

    I think this makes alot of sense and do not believe he is unavailable. The mets have to feel they may not be able to sign or afford him so if offered the right Package for Reyes, I think they would go for it. That package would of course start with Iglesias, but if you get Reyes he is not a loss, conisideing they are losing Beltran, they would want either Kalish/Reddick, but gain since we already have 2 LHH outfoelders in Crawford and Ells, they are redundant since it would uselss to have them as the 3rd and 4th OF. After that it would take you at least one more top prospect...Doubront...maybe as long as its not Ranaudo...Lavarnway....Middlebrooks....I think Theo would hesistate on them....after that it is probably another top A Ball level prospect....4 prospects....the Mets rebuild their farm system get low salary control over some ready or soon ready ML talent and do not have to pay Reyes huge money.....and to that point the Sox would only do this if they could first get Reyes to agree to a contract. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from attic-dan. Show attic-dan's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

        Two reasons why the Sox will be contenders for years to come. First they will field a more that competitive team, and two the mediocrity of the rest of league. If MLB adds a second wild card team it would be almost impossible not to make the play offs and once in any thing is possible.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]At this point, the Red Sox are well on their way to making the playoffs in 2011. Even still, steps could be made to improve the team at the trade deadline. The Red Sox are one major piece away from truly contending for the pennant in the next handful of years.  They could get a top SS to soldify the middle infield for years to come or add a stud starting pitcher to really round out the rotation. The Red Sox should pursue a player that they could have control of for many years. Pedey, Youk A-Gon, Crawford, Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, and Lackey will be here for a while. With the contracts of Drew, Ortiz, Papelbon coming off the books, Red Sox should have about 15 million payroll flexibility (after factoring in more money for A-Gon's new contract and Ellsbury in arbitration) Earlier today, Theo said that he believes the depth in the farm system is currently very strong and would be willing to give up prospects in the right deal (they shouldn't trade Middlebrooks, Lavarnway, Ranuado). Does anyone else feel that the Red Sox are just one piece away from having that ideal lineup or that dominant starting rotation? Maybe pursue Hanley, Felix, or a player no one is talking about.
    Posted by redsox0426[/QUOTE]

    I would only upgrade RF for a guy like Pence or Kemp and without giving up Ells.  We could desperately use a new SS with some range and bat like Reyes, or even another SP.  My order of business would be this ....

    SS
    SP
    LHP in pen
    RF
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    I hate trade talk on these forums because people are generally way too unrealistic.   You can't say that you want to get a Reyes but take Middlebrooks, Ranaudo, and Lavarnway off the table.  If you want an elite player, you have to give up some, or all, of your best prospects.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from fivekatz. Show fivekatz's posts

    Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention

    In Response to Re: Red Sox are one piece away from perennial pennant contention:
    [QUOTE]I hate trade talk on these forums because people are generally way too unrealistic.   You can't say that you want to get a Reyes but take Middlebrooks, Ranaudo, and Lavarnway off the table.  If you want an elite player, you have to give up some, or all, of your best prospects.
    Posted by siestafiesta[/QUOTE]So true. And it would be multiples of the names you list because of where each is in their development makes them more of a risk.

    Personally I don't think the RS make a bold move at the deadline but rather may make "role player" moves where their second tier prospects will bring enough value to the trade. Pence, Ubaldo, Reyes are dreams IMHO.

    And frankly I don't see the RS making a big splash signing this coming off season. Their player personnel budget sort of indicates that in the way of big names, what you see is what you get.

    And by the way, that is OK. You don't need an all-star at every position to win. In fact the NYY are instructional that way. The NYY of the 97 had guys like O'Neill, Brosius, Martinez, Knoblauch, Curtis and Giardi playing key roles.

    They replaced those with Sheffield, A-Rod, Giambi, Soriano, Matsui and a full time Posada. They won less games an no rings from 2000 until 2009.

    Stacking the roster with all-stars only goes so far.
     
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