Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

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    Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    Last August the Red Sox pulled off one of the biggest trades in major-league history.

    Nick Cafardo            

    Aaron Harang, Melky Cabrera, Mike Gonzalez and Placidio Polanco among players put on waivers today. A whole slew of players should follow.

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves


    Maureen Mullen/CSNNE.COM 

    RHP Rubby De La Rosa will be called up by Red Sox today. Takes Beato's roster spot

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    Need, pitching! Need, pitching! Need, pitching! Need, pitching! Need, pitching!

    and more pitching!

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    Nick Cafardo  

    Brandon League was put on waivers. Interesting name that could get claimed

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    Sunday morning thoughts concerning the trade deadline

    Cliff Lee is a better pitcher than Peavy. There's no doubt about that. Lee is in the elite class, and Peavy is both a class behind and more prone to injuries. That's indisputable.

    But it really comes down to price. Getting Peavy for Iglesias -- who projected as a utility infielder going forward for the Red Sox -- was the right price for a Red Sox team trying to stockpile as many assets as possible. If it was going to take Xander Bogaerts to get Cliff Lee, that was never going to happen. Same with Jackie Bradley Jr. and Garin Cecchini, probably. Those are guys you hang onto.

    In other words, a Mercedes is better than a Toyota Camry, but if you can get a Camry for $10,000 and the Mercedes costs $500,000, at a certain point, you have to get the one that makes sense at its price.

    This wasn't the Red Sox choosing Peavy over Lee. We all know Lee is a better pitcher than Peavy. But we do not know what the Phillies would have accepted for Lee. It very well might be that the Red Sox chose Peavy, Bogaerts and Anthony Ranaudo over Lee and Iglesias.

    If the Phillies wouldn't budge off Bogaerts as an asking price, the Red Sox were right to turn them down.
    But to get Peavy for Iglesias and lower-level prospects in this market really seems like a good deal to me.

    The Marlins have three more years to trade Giancarlo Stanton, so if they're going to do it now, they'd have to be bowled over. The Sox would obviously be more willing to discuss Bogaerts for a 23-year-old OF than a 34-year-old LHP, but you still wonder if you'd trade a SS with 30-HR potential for a corner OF with a 40-HR track record..

    The Red Sox will go into the offseason with four pitchers either on one-year deals or one-year-with-an-option deals, all in the $13-15 million range -- Dempster, Lackey, Lester and Peavy. Add to that Buchholz and Doubront, and then add to that Workman and Webster, not to mention someone like Ranaudo, who should be a factor next year the way Webster and Workman were this year. That's a lot of depth.

    The Sox can't match Tampa Bay's starters. Even if the Sox traded for Lee, they wouldn't have been able to match Tampa Bay's starters. The easiest way to match Tampa Bay's starters is to have guys like Webster, Ranaudo and Workman develop into Hellicksons and Moores and Archers.

    It's not as simple as going to the supermarket and buying a No. 1 starter.

    The goal here is to win the World Series and continue to contend in future years, not to get Cliff Lee or a similar No. 1 starter and then run a pennant up the flagpole. If getting the No. 1 starter means depleting talent elsewhere -- i.e. trading Xander Bogaerts -- it does more harm than good.

    Here's the other thing in regard to the Peavy trade: Workman absolutely has been terrific. But if the Red Sox hadn't traded for Peavy, what happens if Dempster's groin starts to hurt again or Lester turns an ankle or any other number of things that can happen to pitchers? It's a much better situation to have Workman available in the bullpen should something happen to one of the other starters.


    Remember the elite shortstop group in the late 1990s -- Jeter, Garciaparra, Rodriguez, Tejada? There's a reason no one ever lumped Vizquel into that group. A slick-fielding defensive shortstop is an asset, no doubt, but a shortstop who can hit 30 home runs is a franchise-changer.

    Here’s the thing about Iglesias -- this is what "selling high" looks like. It's hard to sell high because you want to believe that what you're seeing is the real thing. But other than his first five or so weeks in the major leagues this year, Iglesias has never demonstrated an ability to hit consistently. He never hit in the minors, and he's hit about .220 in the last six weeks in the majors. The Red Sox got a very good starting pitcher for parts of two seasons in exchange for a great defensive shortstop who might never hit. Would you ever trade Lester or Buchholz for a shortstop who hits .220? That's what this deal amounts to, in the other direction.

    Iglesias' final numbers this season will probably look pretty good at the end of the season. But those hits are banked, and he can still have pretty good offensive numbers even if he hits .220 the rest of the way.

    Iglesias's entire professional career aligns more closely with that offensive production than with what he did in April and June in the majors. Iglesias has had a better approach this year, but it's not like he was hitting .450 with a bunch of gappers. It was obvious luck was involved.

    Holt probably isn't the starting third baseman on September 1, and a left side of Iglesias and Drew probably doesn't pass a definition of "championship-caliber" either. Part of this trade was an endorsement of Middlebrooks and/or Bogaerts at third.

    When Bogaerts or Middlebrooks comes up, it'll be at the expense of Snyder, not Holt, who's up because he can back up Drew and Pedroia at shortstop and second.

    Who's will play third base on Sept. 1, WMB or Bogaerts, is going to be fascinating to monitor. I'm not sure even Ben Cherington knows the answer to the question at this point. I think they'd like it to be Middlebrooks because he'd probably be a better defensive third baseman, but his OBP since he was sent down to Pawtucket to get back on track is .306. Bogaerts is a more high-upside play, but Mike Trout's 2011 season -- he hit .220 with a .281 on-base percentage in his first 135 plate appearances -- is a reminder that top prospects don't always hit the ground running.

    And yes, the Bogaerts-Machado comparisons are everywhere. The major difference is that Bogaerts doesn't bring the same kind of glove to the majors that Machado did, even at third. (If you watched the series in Baltimore last weekend, you know what I mean.)
    Bogaerts' bat is further along than Machado's was, but it's still unreasonable to expect him to come in and be a middle-of-the-order guy.

    Bogaerts isn't on the 40 man roster. When Bogaerts is deemed ready, he'll be called up. Roster considerations aren't going to stand in his way.

    Bogaerts has to be put on the 40-man this offseason anyway. A month or two earlier doesn't make a significant difference.

    One aspect of the Red Sox system that sometimes gets overlooked is the presence of Deven Marrero. It might only be a year or two until he's pushing for playing time at the major-league level, too, but he's a factor. If Bogaerts outgrows shortstop in a couple of years, Marrero could be his successor.

     



    Great post!  

    I concur that Peavy for Iglesias was the better play. In the hypothetical world of fantasy trades the cost of aquiring Lee in prospects and dollars just doesn't make sense. I also question whether Lee is truly a big game pitcher. I don't question his ability to go out and give his team 30 quality starts and 200 plus innings. Just not sure that I would take him in a game seven matchup. 

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    In response to Beantowne's comment:

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

     

    Sunday morning thoughts concerning the trade deadline

    Cliff Lee is a better pitcher than Peavy. There's no doubt about that. Lee is in the elite class, and Peavy is both a class behind and more prone to injuries. That's indisputable.

    But it really comes down to price. Getting Peavy for Iglesias -- who projected as a utility infielder going forward for the Red Sox -- was the right price for a Red Sox team trying to stockpile as many assets as possible. If it was going to take Xander Bogaerts to get Cliff Lee, that was never going to happen. Same with Jackie Bradley Jr. and Garin Cecchini, probably. Those are guys you hang onto.

    In other words, a Mercedes is better than a Toyota Camry, but if you can get a Camry for $10,000 and the Mercedes costs $500,000, at a certain point, you have to get the one that makes sense at its price.

    This wasn't the Red Sox choosing Peavy over Lee. We all know Lee is a better pitcher than Peavy. But we do not know what the Phillies would have accepted for Lee. It very well might be that the Red Sox chose Peavy, Bogaerts and Anthony Ranaudo over Lee and Iglesias.

    If the Phillies wouldn't budge off Bogaerts as an asking price, the Red Sox were right to turn them down.
    But to get Peavy for Iglesias and lower-level prospects in this market really seems like a good deal to me.

    The Marlins have three more years to trade Giancarlo Stanton, so if they're going to do it now, they'd have to be bowled over. The Sox would obviously be more willing to discuss Bogaerts for a 23-year-old OF than a 34-year-old LHP, but you still wonder if you'd trade a SS with 30-HR potential for a corner OF with a 40-HR track record..

    The Red Sox will go into the offseason with four pitchers either on one-year deals or one-year-with-an-option deals, all in the $13-15 million range -- Dempster, Lackey, Lester and Peavy. Add to that Buchholz and Doubront, and then add to that Workman and Webster, not to mention someone like Ranaudo, who should be a factor next year the way Webster and Workman were this year. That's a lot of depth.

    The Sox can't match Tampa Bay's starters. Even if the Sox traded for Lee, they wouldn't have been able to match Tampa Bay's starters. The easiest way to match Tampa Bay's starters is to have guys like Webster, Ranaudo and Workman develop into Hellicksons and Moores and Archers.

    It's not as simple as going to the supermarket and buying a No. 1 starter.

    The goal here is to win the World Series and continue to contend in future years, not to get Cliff Lee or a similar No. 1 starter and then run a pennant up the flagpole. If getting the No. 1 starter means depleting talent elsewhere -- i.e. trading Xander Bogaerts -- it does more harm than good.

    Here's the other thing in regard to the Peavy trade: Workman absolutely has been terrific. But if the Red Sox hadn't traded for Peavy, what happens if Dempster's groin starts to hurt again or Lester turns an ankle or any other number of things that can happen to pitchers? It's a much better situation to have Workman available in the bullpen should something happen to one of the other starters.


    Remember the elite shortstop group in the late 1990s -- Jeter, Garciaparra, Rodriguez, Tejada? There's a reason no one ever lumped Vizquel into that group. A slick-fielding defensive shortstop is an asset, no doubt, but a shortstop who can hit 30 home runs is a franchise-changer.

    Here’s the thing about Iglesias -- this is what "selling high" looks like. It's hard to sell high because you want to believe that what you're seeing is the real thing. But other than his first five or so weeks in the major leagues this year, Iglesias has never demonstrated an ability to hit consistently. He never hit in the minors, and he's hit about .220 in the last six weeks in the majors. The Red Sox got a very good starting pitcher for parts of two seasons in exchange for a great defensive shortstop who might never hit. Would you ever trade Lester or Buchholz for a shortstop who hits .220? That's what this deal amounts to, in the other direction.

    Iglesias' final numbers this season will probably look pretty good at the end of the season. But those hits are banked, and he can still have pretty good offensive numbers even if he hits .220 the rest of the way.

    Iglesias's entire professional career aligns more closely with that offensive production than with what he did in April and June in the majors. Iglesias has had a better approach this year, but it's not like he was hitting .450 with a bunch of gappers. It was obvious luck was involved.

    Holt probably isn't the starting third baseman on September 1, and a left side of Iglesias and Drew probably doesn't pass a definition of "championship-caliber" either. Part of this trade was an endorsement of Middlebrooks and/or Bogaerts at third.

    When Bogaerts or Middlebrooks comes up, it'll be at the expense of Snyder, not Holt, who's up because he can back up Drew and Pedroia at shortstop and second.

    Who's will play third base on Sept. 1, WMB or Bogaerts, is going to be fascinating to monitor. I'm not sure even Ben Cherington knows the answer to the question at this point. I think they'd like it to be Middlebrooks because he'd probably be a better defensive third baseman, but his OBP since he was sent down to Pawtucket to get back on track is .306. Bogaerts is a more high-upside play, but Mike Trout's 2011 season -- he hit .220 with a .281 on-base percentage in his first 135 plate appearances -- is a reminder that top prospects don't always hit the ground running.

    And yes, the Bogaerts-Machado comparisons are everywhere. The major difference is that Bogaerts doesn't bring the same kind of glove to the majors that Machado did, even at third. (If you watched the series in Baltimore last weekend, you know what I mean.)
    Bogaerts' bat is further along than Machado's was, but it's still unreasonable to expect him to come in and be a middle-of-the-order guy.

    Bogaerts isn't on the 40 man roster. When Bogaerts is deemed ready, he'll be called up. Roster considerations aren't going to stand in his way.

    Bogaerts has to be put on the 40-man this offseason anyway. A month or two earlier doesn't make a significant difference.

    One aspect of the Red Sox system that sometimes gets overlooked is the presence of Deven Marrero. It might only be a year or two until he's pushing for playing time at the major-league level, too, but he's a factor. If Bogaerts outgrows shortstop in a couple of years, Marrero could be his successor.

     

     



    Great post!  

     

    I concur that Peavy for Iglesias was the better play. In the hypothetical world of fantasy trades the cost of aquiring Lee in prospects and dollars just doesn't make sense. I also question whether Lee is truly a big game pitcher. I don't question his ability to go out and give his team 30 quality starts and 200 plus innings. Just not sure that I would take him in a game seven matchup. 



    Thank you Beantowne

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    The thing I think of is he Drew goes down you have Brock Holt, Xman a few miles away and Marrero a short plane ride. 

    As it stands right now Holt and Snyder aren't hurting the team in any way. Snyder a clutch hit last night, Holt drives in a run. That was definitely a playoff atmosphere game last night with two quality pitchers facing each other.

    The D'Backs and the Cards both have a lot of no name players but for the most part not household names as we would know household names in the AL East. The D'backs are a very solid team, good manager, etc.

    The thing about the Sox , to me, is the veteran presence all over:

    Nap, Pedroia, Drew, Gomes, Ells, Vicorino, Dempster, Lackey, now Peavy, Thornton, Ross, Ue, Morales, Breslow, Ortiz---I may be leaving someone out.

    As Peavy said it's like walking into a clubhouse and seeing familiar faces. Maybe we need a pen arm but I feel good where we are. 

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    CBSSports.com
    Red Sox pitcher Brandon Workman will be called up from Triple-A Monday

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    Can players traded before the waiver deadline play in the postseason?

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    In response to seannybboi's comment:

    Can players traded before the waiver deadline play in the postseason?



    Once a player clears waivers he can be trade anytime even in the WS but there eligibility rules that would prevent most players added to the roster after Sept 1 from being on the post season roster.

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    The August 31st post-season eligibility deadline is not really a true deadline. There's a gaping loophole that effectively allows teams to choose whoever they want for their playoff roster, as long as that player was in the organization prior to September 1st. The way it works is that if a player who spent at least one day on the major league roster prior to August 31st gets placed on the 60-day DL, then any player in the entire organization can take his place on the post-season roster. The Angels utilized this provision in 2002 when they placed Francisco Rodriguez on their playoff roster despite him not making his major league debut until some time in September.

    Here's a theoretical example would occur if the Red Sox wait until the second week of September to recall Xander Bogaerts. Assume he plays phenomenally for a couple weeks, and the Red Sox decide they'd like to ride his hot bat into the playoffs. All they'd have to do is find some excuse to place Brandon Snyder on the 60-day DL, replace him with Bogaerts and the 20 yearold phenom would be playoff-eligible.

    Another possible example: let's say Jose Contreras, who is not on the 40-man roster, continues to pitch superbly at AAA, but for whatever reason, doesn't get called up in September. The Red Sox decide they want him on the Division Series roster anyway. They could place Alex Wilson on the 60-day DL, give Contreras Wilson's roster spot, and use Contreras in the playoffs even though he didn't appear in a single regular season game for them.

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves

    In response to 2004Idiot's comment:

    Last August the Red Sox pulled off one of the biggest trades in major-league history.

    Nick Cafardo            

    Aaron Harang, Melky Cabrera, Mike Gonzalez and Placidio Polanco among players put on waivers today. A whole slew of players should follow.




    Red sox have no room for these waiver players.  Morales, Bucholtz and Bailey all are  soon coming off of DL.  David Ross could soon passed the concussion test, and be able to play again.  So that is up to four players who could bump one of the four 25 man roster players.  Then we got Webster, Bradley, Beato, Middlebrook, and Workman who have been called up already. 

    Therefore, we have too many players, and they have enuff players to replace any position for this season. 

     
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    Re: Red Sox August 31 Waiver Trade Deadline/ Postseason eligibility roster deadline/ moves


    Jerry Crasnick/ESPN  

    Rowland-Smith can opt out at any time if another club adds him to 25-man roster. He's 5-0 w/ 1.58 ERA in 45.2 IP with Pawsox.

     
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