Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    The 2012 Beckett is no longer a number 1; he doesn't have that high 90's fastball anymore and after last season his work ethic is questionable. Lester and Buchholz haven't proven to be number 1 elite starters either. And I don't want to see the Sox just add low-risk options like  Edwin Jackson , Rich Harden , Joel Pineiro and Jason Marquis. I want the Sox to go after the big fish; go after Yu Darvish, C.J. Wilson, CC Sabathia or trade for Felix Hernandez.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Yeah let's invest millions on another 'so-called' #1 starter from another organization...I love that Darvish is mentioned too...a totally unproven player is now a #1 starter in the major leagues?

    When Lester is on his game he is a better pitcher than Wilson. No way the SOx outbid the Yankees for the services of Sabathia...so put that to bed.

    Felix Hernandez is not available unless you sell the farm to get him, that means a combination major and minor leaguers to Seattle to wow them into a trade...I say JUST SAY NO.

    If the Sox could work the compensation package to include a trade for Zambrano for Theo and Lackey I'd give that a shot. Zambrano can pitch, he just needs to be given sedatives or something.
     



     
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    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    Hi Soxdog67; I'm looking for another Jim Lonborg.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Well I would guess there are 29 other teams looking for the same thing...and I assume you mean Lonborg of '67 only...because he was never a #1 pitcher after his skiing accident in the winter of '67-'68.

    Keep trying. Maybe you can find the right fruit tree in the forest that grows #1 starters.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    Maybe CC Sabathia yes, but not CJ Wilson or Yu Darvish.

    Yu Darvish never pitch in MLB.  Is he the next Dice K or he is going to be better than him?  I wouldnt try to risk on signing him a long term contract.  He is unpredictable when he come to America!!

    For CJ Wilson, he is pitching in a weak AL west division.  He went 16-7 and went 15-8 a year before that. He won 8 games against teams from the AL West this year, and only won 8 games against the rest.  Right now he cant pitch in the post season where he is now 1-4 record with an ERA of 5.40.  So sound like he cant pitch in a big game.  

    So that is why no one is very high on these starting pitchers this year.  Maybe Boston would try to sign Wilson just to make the starting rotation stronger, but will not make him as a #1 pitcher.  Dont sign him a long term contract.  Maybe three years contract is good enough!!

    More likely everyone including Boston is going to try to make a trade to get Felix or one of the top talent pitchers from the small market such as Astros, Royals, etc.

    Finding a #1 pitcher in nowadays are hard to find.  After Verlander, Felix and Halladay, rest are just like healthy Beckett and Lester!!


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    I don't see Sox going after those big fish and sign them.  Sox will sign one or two low risk FA this winter (Edwin Jackson, Mark Buehrle, or Rich Harden are my choices) plus another one or two relievers (Broxton, Matt Capps, K-Rod, or Mike Gonzalez)

    I agree with you that Sox really need another ace caliber pitcher in the rotation.  I still think Jon Lester will be the Ace of this team thou. 

    Adam Wainwright - If Cards lose Pujols to another club, they will have a big, big hole in 1B.  Guess who can fill that hole.  YOUK~~~~~~~~~~~~~ we can build a package around Youk (Youk, Reddick, Weiland/Doubront)

    Josh Johnson - similar package for Wainwright would work with JJ
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from seannybboi. Show seannybboi's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    In Response to Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one. : Yeah let's invest millions on another 'so-called' #1 starter from another organization...I love that Darvish is mentioned too...a totally unproven player is now a #1 starter in the major leagues? When Lester is on his game he is a better pitcher than Wilson. No way the SOx outbid the Yankees for the services of Sabathia...so put that to bed. Felix Hernandez is not available unless you sell the farm to get him, that means a combination major and minor leaguers to Seattle to wow them into a trade...I say JUST SAY NO. If the Sox could work the compensation package to include a trade for Zambrano for Theo and Lackey I'd give that a shot. Zambrano can pitch, he just needs to be given sedatives or something.  
    Posted by Soxdog67


    Obviously you don't know who Darvish is... He's not proven?? He is a dominant pitcher in respected Japan league and he's also pitched in WBC and was phenominal.  Darvish alot young than Dice-K when he first came to America.  No injuries like his. 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    I don't see Sox going after those big fish and sign them.  Sox will sign one or two low risk FA this winter (Edwin Jackson, Mark Buehrle, or Rich Harden are my choices) plus another one or two relievers (Broxton, Matt Capps, K-Rod, or Mike Gonzalez) I agree with you that Sox really need another ace caliber pitcher in the rotation.  I still think Jon Lester will be the Ace of this team thou.  Adam Wainwright - If Cards lose Pujols to another club, they will have a big, big hole in 1B.  Guess who can fill that hole.  YOUK~~~~~~~~~~~~~ we can build a package around Youk (Youk, Reddick, Weiland/Doubront) Josh Johnson - similar package for Wainwright would work with JJ
    Posted by seannybboi

    Did you know that Wainwright missed the 2011 season due to elbow surgery.  I wouldnt package that much players to send to St. Louis for Wainwright.  Maybe more of Youkilis and Reddick along with lesser prospects.



     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    The 2012 Beckett is no longer a number 1; he doesn't have that high 90's fastball anymore and after last season his work ethic is questionable. Lester and Buchholz haven't proven to be number 1 elite starters either. And I don't want to see the Sox just add low-risk options like  Edwin Jackson , Rich Harden , Joel Pineiro and Jason Marquis. I want the Sox to go after the big fish; go after Yu Darvish, C.J. Wilson, CC Sabathia or trade for Felix Hernandez.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    I agree with you on Beckett. As far as the "big fish" that you mentioned:
    Darvish is going to be very expensive and a tremendous risk
    C.J. Wilson is a possibility
    Sabathia is probably going to end up staying with the Yankees
    Hernadez is a great idea but I don't see Seattle trading him for what we could offer in return.

    I still believe that Lester can become the starter that we have hoped he could be. Also, Bucholz should be fully recovered from his injury. Beckett will hopefully give us a solid season. My biggest concern is Lackey and I have no confidence in him at all. Aceves and maybe Bard can can become starters for us. Or as you pointed out there some lower level pitchers out there that may be worth taking a chance on.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Alibiike. Show Alibiike's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    Perhaps Dice-K will come back strong from TJ surgery.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one. : Obviously you don't know who Darvish is... He's not proven?? He is a dominant pitcher in respected Japan league and he's also pitched in WBC and was phenominal.  Darvish alot young than Dice-K when he first came to America.  No injuries like his. 
    Posted by seannybboi


    Sorry but Dice-K was hyped as the greatest thing since sushi coming out of Japan...and as it turns out he came nowhere close to being a #1 starter in the major leagues. I don't care if Darvish dominated in the world classic or Japan, so didn't Dice-K.

    Sorry but I am extremely skeptical on Japanese pitchers coming to the major leagues and paying huge money before they even face one major league batter.

    Can you imagine the fallout if the Sox go and do a similar posting and contract for Darvish that fails like Dice-K?

    ...BUYER BEWARE!

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tom-uk. Show tom-uk's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    For Sep. 2011, Jon Lester had an ERA of 5.40 and Josh Beckett was at 5.48. That sure builds a strong case for the Chicken and Beer dialogue, but that argument doesn’t work when you look at their xFIP of 3.79 and 2.96 respectively. http://firebrandal.com/2011/10/17/building-the-2012-rotation/#more-15495
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    The 2012 Beckett is no longer a number 1; he doesn't have that high 90's fastball anymore and after last season his work ethic is questionable. Lester and Buchholz haven't proven to be number 1 elite starters either. And I don't want to see the Sox just add low-risk options like  Edwin Jackson , Rich Harden , Joel Pineiro and Jason Marquis. I want the Sox to go after the big fish; go after Yu Darvish, C.J. Wilson, CC Sabathia or trade for Felix Hernandez.
    Posted by 2004Idiots


    Yes, we do need a leader on the staff, along with a new captain and positive attitude towards winning.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    The comparison of DiceK to Darvish ends with the fact that they are both from Japan. DiceK was an older, over used, veteran pitcher. His fastball was only 90-92 mph with an established scouting report. Darvish is younger, bigger, more advanced repertoire, less innings on his arm and more success. DiceK's career ERA in Japan was 2.95 and Darvish is a full run lower. DiceK struggles with command and walks to many/nibbles too much, Darvish had 36 BB compared to 276 K's in 230 IP this season.











    2011- 232 IP/ 18-6 / 1.44 ERA / 276 K / 36 BB / 156 Hits / 5 HR
    I'd rather the Sox spend just cash to grab a young starter like Darvish than to give up all of the best prospects to make a trade. The posting fee doesn't count against the luxury tax anyways, his actual salary would be around $10M per.

    If the Sox do make a trade for a starter - it won't be for a number 1. Beckett, Lester, and Buchholz are at the top. Trade targets will be Danks, G. Floyd, J. Guthrie, and other back end types. Aceves could be made the 5/6th starter. I think Wake will be brought back as well.




     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.











    Darvish's father was also educated in America.
    Darvish speaks English.
    Darvish is a fierce competitor and his demeanor stands out compared to Japanese norms.
    Darvish's father said when asked about where he'd like his son to play...
    "I love New England"
    The money is here. You know Henry would like to keep the Asian market in his cashflow.

    Obviously the risk is there, those stats won't be reproduced in MLB, but the Sox don't lose any minor leaguers as they would if they traded for a starter.

    Ideal Rotation for 2012
    Beckett
    Lester
    Buchholz
    Garza (hold out until Cubs accept - We have a GM, they don't -- if they refuse, let Theo sit out all year)
    Darvish

    Depth Starters
    Aceves
    Wake
    Doubront
    Weiland
     
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    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    Darvish's father was also educated in America. Darvish speaks English. Darvish is a fierce competitor and his demeanor stands out compared to Japanese norms. Darvish's father said when asked about where he'd like his son to play... "I love New England" The money is here. You know Henry would like to keep the Asian market in his cashflow. Obviously the risk is there, those stats won't be reproduced in MLB, but the Sox don't lose any minor leaguers as they would if they traded for a starter. Ideal Rotation for 2012 Beckett Lester Buchholz Garza (hold out until Cubs accept - We have a GM, they don't -- if they refuse, let Theo sit out all year) Darvish Depth Starters Aceves Wake Doubront Weiland
    Posted by TitleTown11

    I don't think we can get Garza, but I'm 100% with you on Darvish.  The only thing keeping Dice-K from being a top-20 starter is his command, and Darvish has that in spades.  For a team trying to stay under the luxury tax, the risk of paying CJ Wilson $20M over six years is far, far greater than paying Darvish + posting fee.  I would put CC Sabathia at at least the same level of risk, given his age and love of cocoa-puffs.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    Let the posters from Tokyo talk. Give them equal time. Don't rain on their parade.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    I'm not from Tokyo - I'm just looking at the options

    A) CC Sabathia - 32 YO - Likely contract...7 Yr-$175M - Verdict...Pass, too much
    B) CJ Wilson - 32 YO - Likely contract...5 Yr-$100M - Verdict...Pass, too much
    C) Edwin Jackson - 28 YO -  Likely contract...3-4 Yr-$36-40M - Verdict...Not low risk at all, it will take big bucks and multi year commitment to get him
    D) Buehrle - 34? YO -  Likely contract...2 Yr-$14M - Verdict...Nope
    E) Oswalt - 34? YO -  Likely contract...2 Yr-$14M - Verdict...AL pitcher?

    Wang, Garcia, Olsen, Pineiro, Dempster available? Ha...No.
    Wainwright and JJ have career threatening injuries and Youk won't get those trades done.

    Oh wait...

    F) Darvish - 24 YO -  Likely contract...6 Yr-$66M - Verdict...What do I care if Henry has to pay extra money to buy his negotiating rights? He'll make that back in 1 day from overseas marketing. Young, talented, and cheaper than the other alternatives. Ding Ding Ding, we have our pitcher.


     


     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from susan250. Show susan250's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    Perhaps Dice-K will come back strong from TJ surgery.
    Posted by Alibiike


    I hope that you are right about Dice-K.  He could be a great help to the Red Sox next season.  Just not sure when he will be back. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    I love that all of sudden CJ Wilson is a "number 1 starter".  In case you haven't been watching baseball in October, CJ "# 1" Wilson is currently sporting an 8.00 ERA in the play-offs, with a WHIP above 1.80.  He has been shelled in 2/3 outings with the other one not being particularly impressive.   The guy is about to turn 31, get his first huge payday and has had exactly 2 good (not great) seasons.

    But sure, I hope the Sox give him Lackey money and then we can listen to all the people who claimed the Red Sox "had to have him", complain about what a bum/bust he is. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    Plus Boston have again to pay posting fee where the internet said that it could be much higher than Boston pay for Dice K.  So meaning it could reach up to over 50 to 65 millions dollars for the posting fee.  Henry isnt going to approve this deal!!!!

    Forget this guy.  Seriously.  He is more likely want to go to a city that have a large Japanese population such as Toronto, Seattle (may try to get him if they can get rid of Figgins/Trade Felix), LAD, LAA, etc. 

    Simple go after Berhrle, Jackson, Maholm, etc!!!

    can have Beckett, Lester, Bucholtz, and one of the guy above.

    Possible to get Zambaro (if bad contract swap for Lackey).  Then Weiland and Aceves can still get a shot to fight for the last spot.


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    The posting fee is negligble when you think of it as an investment into a new market. Japan loves baseball and just as we did with DiceK, we should invest in their star player. How many DiceK BoSox shirts and Sox caps were sold? Do you think the Red Sox financially took a hit for signing DiceK or continued to grow the brand and flourish? I bet Henry was happy he signed Dice...Owning a baseball team is a business and Darvish, as was Dice, is Henry's ticket to continually take advantage of an untapped market. 50 mil, 60 mil, 70 mil whatever it takes. How much much do you think Darvish would return in 6 years. I'm guessing more than the posting fee and then some. He's a younger, more valuable opportunity than Paul Maholm or Mark Buehrle! Heck, he's more talented than both too! And they will make the same amount per year except you can keep Darvish for 6 years
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Thesemenarecowards. Show Thesemenarecowards's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    Anyone who thinks John Henry is going to sign off on another huge posting fee to sign a Japanese pitcher is out of their mind. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoUconn13. Show GoUconn13's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    In Response to Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.:
    I'm not from Tokyo - I'm just looking at the options A) CC Sabathia - 32 YO - Likely contract...7 Yr-$175M - Verdict...Pass, too much B) CJ Wilson - 32 YO - Likely contract...5 Yr-$100M - Verdict...Pass, too much C) Edwin Jackson - 28 YO -  Likely contract...3-4 Yr-$36-40M - Verdict...Not low risk at all, it will take big bucks and multi year commitment to get him D) Buehrle - 34? YO -  Likely contract...2 Yr-$14M - Verdict...Nope E) Oswalt - 34? YO -  Likely contract...2 Yr-$14M - Verdict...AL pitcher? Wang, Garcia, Olsen, Pineiro, Dempster available? Ha...No. Wainwright and JJ have career threatening injuries and Youk won't get those trades done. Oh wait... F) Darvish - 24 YO -  Likely contract...6 Yr-$66M - Verdict...What do I care if Henry has to pay extra money to buy his negotiating rights? He'll make that back in 1 day from overseas marketing. Young, talented, and cheaper than the other alternatives. Ding Ding Ding, we have our pitcher.  
    Posted by TitleTown11

    Wait, he is not 24 years old.  He is 25 years old.  He is going to be 26 years old when he soon complete his first year pitching in MLB level if he is coming to America.

    Dice K was 26 years old going to be 27 years old when he first completed his first season for the Red Sox team.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TitleTown11. Show TitleTown11's posts

    Re: Red Sox don't have a true number 1 starter-time to get one.

    I'm sorry....my mistake. Does him being 26 and not 25 make you want Mark Buehrle more?
     
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