1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Beantowne. Show Beantowne's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    Much ado about nothing. 

    In search of Farrel replacement. The Sox have been changing pitching instructors annually now for the last three seasons. A tall order, in that Farrel was also instrumental in the development of our minor league pitching instruction too. A role that McClure was hired to fill...

    If indeed Valentine is the manager of the future. The organization needs to allow him to surround himself with coaches that buy into his program. If he's not, then the lesson learned is that perhaps they need to look at the organizational structure and hire someone to replace Farrel's role overseeing the minor league program. One who doesn't wear a uniform and is not seen as part of the big league coaching staff. Managing is tough enough with a staff that buys into your phylosophies. When one of the key guys on your staff is pulling in a different direction. It makes for an uneasy clubhouse.

    All this brings me back to the organizational dysfuction that seems to be status quo on Yawkey way. In 2002 the Red Sox management team had a plan and an organizational phylosophy, they then went out and aquired coiaches and players that fit that model....a model that worked and the results were 6 years of championship baseball. Today they seem to be rutterless without clearly definded parameters of the style of play nor the type of players they need to execute the plan.

    So I ask. What is it that Bobby Valentine brings to the table? Why did they chose him to manage the team? Therin lyes the conundrum...

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mchampion. Show Mchampion's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    In response to "Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?": [QUOTE]Much ado about nothing.  In search of Farrel replacement. The Sox have been changing pitching instructors annually now for the last three seasons. A tall order, in that Farrel was also instrumental in the development of our minor league pitching instruction too. A role that McClure was hired to fill... If indeed Valentine is the manager of the future. The organization needs to allow him to surround himself with coaches that buy into his program. If he's not, then the lesson learned is that perhaps they need to look at the organizational structure and hire someone to replace Farrel's role overseeing the minor league program. One who doesn't wear a uniform and is not seen as part of the big league coaching staff. Managing is tough enough with a staff that buys into your phylosophies. When one of the key guys on your staff is pulling in a different direction. It makes for an uneasy clubhouse. All this brings me back to the organizational dysfuction that seems to be status quo on Yawkey way. In 2002 the Red Sox management team had a plan and an organizational phylosophy, they then went out and aquired coiaches and players that fit that model....a model that worked and the results were 6 years of championship baseball. Today they seem to be rutterless without clearly definded parameters of the style of play nor the type of players they need to execute the plan. So I ask. What is it that Bobby Valentine brings to the table? Why did they chose him to manage the team? Therin lyes the conundrum... Posted by Beantowne[/QUOTE] Great post. I agree 100%. Is BV just a stop gap until the team gets out from under the Theo mess he left. If I had to bet I would say one more year of BV and then they go and get Farrel back in a Sox uniform.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jete02fan. Show jete02fan's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    i know he wasn't one of Valentine's "guys", but if the report is true, i find it hard to believe that Valentine didn't even talk to the guy..
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from greenwellforpresident. Show greenwellforpresident's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    I agree it's a good move and should have happened a long time ago.  I don't understand why the tension among coaches and BV hasn't been more of a story since it first came out a few months ago.  Players not liking there manager is probably somewhat common and I always had trouble buying this as a reason for the poor performance.  Managers and coaches not working well together is not common and I can easily see it resulting in poor performance.  If your leadership can't present a unified message for the players it's somewhat harder for them to have a lot of confidence in their actions, which is crucial.  I would actually give the players some credit for not pointing to this as a problem when the media is hounding them all year and blaming their relationship with the manager as the problem.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    It's amazing how self-serving people are about BV's hire. Either you fans are all warped and truly forgot about 2010 when a ton of injuries hit that team and still finished 16 above .500 or you really think BV was a poor, maligned manager who should come back. Even if the Sox jetisoned 10 players from this roster, how long would it take for you all to realize what a fraud BV is as a MLB manager. His time has passed, it passed too long--10 years ago for his last gig. He does put his foot in his mouth daily and his decision making even with his lineups and who he decides to play at what position--3b and SS, for instance, have been a bit puzzling. All of this stuff is about placing blame, and it appears the only blame that seems to work for you guys/girls is EVERYONE IS TO BLAME BUT BOBBY VALENTINE. I will mark this down and you better too--if he comes back next year, forget about finishing above .500. This atmosphere is toxic and it's bad baseball. This is far worse than Tito's collapse..this a whole season of bad baseball...Firing McClure is again voting confidence to BV. I think it's a major mistake to give him more than 2012, let alone finish out the season. The team needs to learn that this type of manager isn't going to work in the short haul, long haul or any haul.
     
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  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    The story on more BV dysfunction, including how Cook had to ask Cherington about if the team was in a 5-man or 6-man rotation, that reeks of lack of communication. If 3 or 4 coaches can't even talk to the manager, what does that tell you about the manager? If he was in charge at a place that had existing employeees, wouldn't you expect him to make a better effort to communicate with the existing employees? BV needs to be fired, and the reasons have been clear now for 110 games. It's all the off-the-field nonsense, lack of communication, lack of knowing what is going on with the pitchers, lack of communicating with the pitching staff. The guy needs to be fired. I said a long time ago that putting BV with Francona's coaches was a recipe for disaster because he wants his own guys. So the italian mafiaso manager gets the pitching coach fired so he can have his own guy take over...So this is the Mets? The terrible Mets? Nice, we're not even the Sox anymore. It's Valentine's guys or the highway, but there are many managers who adjusted and the good ones adjust to those that are existing while bringing in guys they get along with. BV refuses to talk to Bogar, Tuck--when does that meet a head? Do they get fired in September? 
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    Welcome to 2012 and Beyond...the Mediocre Mets taking the place of the Sox.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    On Daniel Bard, I agree with McClure, you have to learn how to pitch out of a windup. If all he could do was pitch out of the stretch, then he should never have been allowed to become a SP--and that's not McClure--that's Cherington.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    This was a move that had to happen and should have happened sooner. When the pitching staff is underperfoming, the blame must fall on the pitching coach, just like the credit was given to Farrell. Personally I think John Farrell is overrated. As the Manager of the Blue Jays their ERA has gone from 4.22 to 4.32 to 4.59 in his two seasons.....does he get the blame for that or does his pitching coach in Toronto.....a guy by the way who had been with the Organization before Farrell became the Manager. If it is Bobby V's fault , then it must be Farrells fault also...so I dont see how he would be a better choice as Manager. Personally, I would like to see Dave Duncan as pitching coach, though I know he is not coaching due to his wifes illness right now.....great coach....and as a Texan, he would relate very well with fellow Texans, Beckett Buchholz and Lackey, as well as the fact that he seems to be able to do wonders with reclamation projects....something that lackey and Beckett need to be considered right now. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    tom, no one seems to get along with BV. The only person BV gets along with is Randy Niemann, he's made that perfectly clear...You want Dave Duncan, I want Dave Duncan, and BV would never think of changing his ways to allow a Duncan type to be a pitching coach. That's what people don't look at--the Big Picture...BV is a terrible communicator, and that's partially why the team is terrible, the players don't respond, and the dysfunction in the clubhouse is as bad or worse than at any time going back to the short reign of the very terrible Joe Kerrigan--talk about an overrated pitching coach. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tomnev. Show tomnev's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]tom, no one seems to get along with BV. The only person BV gets along with is Randy Niemann, he's made that perfectly clear...You want Dave Duncan, I want Dave Duncan, and BV would never think of changing his ways to allow a Duncan type to be a pitching coach. That's what people don't look at--the Big Picture...BV is a terrible communicator, and that's partially why the team is terrible, the players don't respond, and the dysfunction in the clubhouse is as bad or worse than at any time going back to the short reign of the very terrible Joe Kerrigan--talk about an overrated pitching coach. 
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]
    I do not if that is completelty true, but if it is then Bobby would have to go also....and I like Bobby, but any leader who doesnt realize the benefit of having excellent and ambitious people under him is a poor leader. if for example, Bobbys issue with Tim B was that he feels Tim wants to be a ML manager and he feels threatened by that, than he is a poor leader. If I managed a team ,I would want half my coaches to have aspirations to move ahead, because no one will work harder than those guys. As a goo Manager you need to work with that ambition, encourage them to work with you, because you will be an Advocate foe them and that nothing will look better on their resume than World Championships....see Brad Mills and John Farrell on that.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    tom, i agree with that. Francona did want the best for Mills, Farrell, and others. He recommended DeMarlo Hale as well for a manager position. I don't see BV as that type of guy at all. And if he does feel threatened by say a Bogar, then I say why? Why not just take the guy to lunch, talk about 15 years ago and move on. BV let's this stuff fester. It's clear as day, he does. He is very set in his ways and it's why he's been out of MLB for 10 years. Few executives want to put up with his nonsense, even the Japanese got tired of his act. 
     
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  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from redsoxdirtdog. Show redsoxdirtdog's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    In Response to Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?:
    [QUOTE]It's amazing how self-serving people are about BV's hire. Either you fans are all warped and truly forgot about 2010 when a ton of injuries hit that team and still finished 16 above .500 or you really think BV was a poor, maligned manager who should come back. Even if the Sox jetisoned 10 players from this roster, how long would it take for you all to realize what a fraud BV is as a MLB manager. His time has passed, it passed too long--10 years ago for his last gig. He does put his foot in his mouth daily and his decision making even with his lineups and who he decides to play at what position--3b and SS, for instance, have been a bit puzzling. All of this stuff is about placing blame, and it appears the only blame that seems to work for you guys/girls is EVERYONE IS TO BLAME BUT BOBBY VALENTINE. I will mark this down and you better too--if he comes back next year, forget about finishing above .500. This atmosphere is toxic and it's bad baseball. This is far worse than Tito's collapse..this a whole season of bad baseball...Firing McClure is again voting confidence to BV. I think it's a major mistake to give him more than 2012, let alone finish out the season. The team needs to learn that this type of manager isn't going to work in the short haul, long haul or any haul.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    It is inexplicable!

    I don't get the rabid defense of bobby v.  We all agree that the players, owners, and FO are 95% to blame. 

    Somehow, these guys think if they give bobby v.  5% of the blame, that absolves everyone else???  Do they not get that these are not mutually exclusive???

    Bobby V. has still proven himself to be a very poor manager.  Worse!  He's a clown and an embarrassment.  He must go!

    I only wish Beckett & Lackey could go first, but we all know why that is a difficult problem that will most likely happen in the off season.  I wish we could deal Beckett right now to a team close to making a run.

    Lackey should simply be released! Eat the whole contract!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: Red Sox fire pitching coach Bob McClure -Reaction?

    dirt, you are even more over the top than I am about this. I've tried, I've really tried to accept BV as manager. But 3 times this season, he said the dumbest things on Earth to take the steam out of the ship when it was actually on a morale high. That to me is a bad manager. You do whatever you can to keep the positive when it's going well...it's like BV doesn't want the team to win. His mouth runneth over.
     

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