Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    Contrary to some of the doomsayers here, the 2012 Red Sox team is going to challenge for the postseason and will begin the season with a major chip on their shoulders (i.e. restoring their images from the September swoon).

    The Red Sox starting line-up is full, with the exception of a RH bat for RF...not something that would lead to a team demise.

    The pitching is the issue right now and involves the 4 & 5 starters and a bullpen arm or two...again this is also something that would not lead to the team demise.

    As I see it, I am VERY THANKFUL that the Sox did not get involved in the bidding for Buerhle and Wilson...both of these guys got contracts that could turn out to be Lackey-esque. Both of those guys were way overpriced, in my opinion.

    The Sox are and were not in the Pujols/Fielder market at all...so nothing missing there.

    The best approach this offseason is too be patient and let the market come to you...there will be a point where decent major league players will still be on the market and can be acquired for a huge discount...that's when you might see some of the tier 2 free agents come knocking at the door when they realize the Sox are in the market for pitching and they're still without a team.

    Maybe an Oswalt, Kuroda or Jackson can fall to you at short term / average money contract...

    ...For the bullpen, maybe Lidge or Madsen or Cordero, Mike Gonzalez are out there late and sign at a discount?

    The Sox played the fools the last couple of years signing the big money free agents, now it's someone elses turn to play that role while the Sox sit back and let the market come to them.

    Oh yeah, there's always a chance a trade could happen too for some up and coming player...

    ...let's let patience be a virtue in the 2012 hot stove season!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MadMc44. Show MadMc44's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    Spoken like a Peter Abraham protege--everything in Beantown is great couldn't be better--we are not spending above the threshhold and we will win the AL East or make the Wildcard. They are serving the Kool Aid beginning at 10 AM , Dec. 10--advanced ticket sales.

    Hopefully Peter, Bobby V and Ben got the same message you did starting from JH and LL before they signed on to this wallowing ship.

    The survey needs some work with the replies.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from SpacemanEephus. Show SpacemanEephus's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    In Response to Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason:
    [QUOTE]Spoken like a Peter Abraham protege--everything in Beantown is great couldn't be better--we are not spending above the threshhold and we will win the AL East or make the Wildcard. They are serving the Kool Aid beginning at 10 AM , Dec. 10--advanced ticket sales. Hopefully Peter, Bobby V and Ben got the same message you did starting with,JH and LL before they signed on to this wallowing ship. The survey needs some work with the replies.
    Posted by MadMc44[/QUOTE]

    Spoken like a true Yankee fan.  "If there is any uncertainty, THROW MONEY AT IT"
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from moonslav59. Show moonslav59's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    "Fast and Furious" will only come back to bite your you know what.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hill55. Show hill55's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    The Red Sox have probably done the right thing by passing on big-ticket free agents, but I don't expect discounts from Edwin Jackson, Hiroki Kuroda, Roy Oswalt, Ryan Madson, Francisco Cordero, Brad Lidge or Mike Gonzalez. The Red Sox will need to shed current salary or exceed the luxury tax threshold if the Sox intend to make acquisitions.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from traven. Show traven's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    If Sox just acquire a reliable pair of starters (one at a minimum) they will be just fine going into next year.  Bard needs to step up, the BP needs a few good men on the cheap, Aceves will work out wherever they put him.  RF could be addressed but I think Reddick can handle it with a little help.  Stay below the cap and let BobbyV and company do their thing.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    You are either in the free agent market or you're not. Waiting for all the FA's to be gone and then feebly declaring, "well....we tried", is disengenuous and true fans will smell that a mile away. I was shocked after they let Paps walk they didn't sign Bell. $9 mill for 3 yrs is a great price for the only sure thing reliever out there. We're going to pay only slightly less, for a possibly considerably less valuable pitcher. Not smart IMO to have not at least kicked the tires on him. It's not black+white guys. The falso choice offered by this poll is to be fools by doing too much, or too little. A wise franchise does WHAT IS NEEDED TO WIN. More, or less, than that is stupid. Top tiered prospects should be traded for studs only. Wasting them on mediocrity because the owners would rather not pony up the dough is the single most damaging move a team can make economically, short of blowing tens of millions on a free agent outright bust. It's a gift that keeps on giving for years to come.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from OnDeckCircle. Show OnDeckCircle's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    Smart move by the Rays GM.    


    The Rays have authored another precedent-setting contract, locking up 22-year-old phenom Matt Moore for at least five years, according to ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick. Moore has just 17 days of big league service time (plus ten innings in the postseason), but the Rays committed $14MM for Moore’s next five seasons. The contract is reminiscent of the Rays’ April 2008 commitment to Evan Longoria, but is the first of its kind for a pitcher. Moore’s guarantee is easily a record for a pitcher with less than a year’s service time, and it also tops any pitcher who signed with less than two years service. The Rays have club options covering Moore’s third arbitration year and first two free agent years. If those are exercised, the deal could be worth $37.5MM over eight years, and it could exceed $40MM with escalators. Moore is represented by Matt Sosnick along with Jon Pridie and Adam Karon of Sosnick Cobbe Sports.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from AL34. Show AL34's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    The point being that they have to do something which they have not done. The Yankees always make a big move right B4 Christmas which I think they will. 4th and 5th spots open in rotation, no Right Fielder, way too left handed rookies outfielders in minors, no middle relief and a closer/starter they are not sure where they want to slot him. I have more questions than answers here. How about you?

    In Response to Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason:
    [QUOTE]If Sox just acquire a reliable pair of starters (one at a minimum) they will be just fine going into next year.  Bard needs to step up, the BP needs a few good men on the cheap, Aceves will work out wherever they put him.  RF could be addressed but I think Reddick can handle it with a little help.  Stay below the cap and let BobbyV and company do their thing.
    Posted by traven[/QUOTE]
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Joebreidey. Show Joebreidey's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

     A wise franchise does WHAT IS NEEDED TO WIN. More, or less, than that is stupid.

    Wow!  Do other GMs know this?


     Top tiered prospects should be traded for studs only. Wasting them on mediocrity because the owners would rather not pony up the dough is the single most damaging move a team can make economically, 

    So you're saying we shouldn't trade top prospects for mediocre talent.

    Aside from my usual sarcastic 'Wow, what a brillinat concept.  Let's keep that secret to ourselves', isn't that what we always do?

    Again, you're just babbling for no apparent reason.

    What's next?  We should only draft good prospects?  We should only sign FAs that will provide positive long-term results?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    To clarify what Teakus said; Heath Bell signed for $9 mil. per yr. for three years.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from craze4sox. Show craze4sox's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    In Response to Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason:
    [QUOTE]Contrary to some of the doomsayers here, the 2012 Red Sox team is going to challenge for the postseason and will begin the season with a major chip on their shoulders (i.e. restoring their images from the September swoon). The Red Sox starting line-up is full, with the exception of a RH bat for RF...not something that would lead to a team demise. The pitching is the issue right now and involves the 4 & 5 starters and a bullpen arm or two...again this is also something that would not lead to the team demise. As I see it, I am VERY THANKFUL that the Sox did not get involved in the bidding for Buerhle and Wilson...both of these guys got contracts that could turn out to be Lackey-esque. Both of those guys were way overpriced, in my opinion. The Sox are and were not in the Pujols/Fielder market at all...so nothing missing there. The best approach this offseason is too be patient and let the market come to you...there will be a point where decent major league players will still be on the market and can be acquired for a huge discount...that's when you might see some of the tier 2 free agents come knocking at the door when they realize the Sox are in the market for pitching and they're still without a team. Maybe an Oswalt, Kuroda or Jackson can fall to you at short term / average money contract... ...For the bullpen, maybe Lidge or Madsen or Cordero, Mike Gonzalez are out there late and sign at a discount? The Sox played the fools the last couple of years signing the big money free agents, now it's someone elses turn to play that role while the Sox sit back and let the market come to them. Oh yeah, there's always a chance a trade could happen too for some up and coming player... ...let's let patience be a virtue in the 2012 hot stove season!
    Posted by Soxdog67[/QUOTE]

    I think the Phils will regret signing Pap longterm so I'm not real upset we passed.  However it left a huge hole, so to talk about Bard or even Aveves at this point starting makes little sense until we find solid replacements.  I pretty much expected "small moves this off season" but neverless we do need pitching badly.  Dice K. is slated to start throwing off the mound in January but at best he may be a late season help.  One or two SP like Garza, or Garza and Aceves along with help in the pen is desperately needed if we intend to get anywhere next season.

    RF help like Cuddyer, Ross "as moon stated" would help a great deal because they hit lefties well.  I also hope we keep Youk who hits lefties at a 301 career clip.  I'm not concerned with the pace of the off season but very concerned if management is in another Penny, Smoltz "bargain basement" mode.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from notin. Show notin's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    I wouldn't say the Sox are doing all the right things, but at least they are not doing all the wrong things...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Soxdog67. Show Soxdog67's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    Just clarification on why I started this topic, for some whose comments seem to misinterpreted my points...

    I didn't say that the Sox were not going to fill their needs, just that they were not going to be aggressive to sign this year's top free agent crop...

    The fact that they are staying or stayed away from the following free agents makes tremendous sense:
    • Papelbon - 4/50 was a tough loss...but Paps got what he was looking for all along...free agency.
    • Pujols - sorry Albert but I'm ok with someone else investing 10/254 in a 32 year old player
    • Wilson - his 5/77 deal was great for him, but another high priced starter whose contract could be an albatross like Lackeys is not needed here.
    • Buerhle - his 4/58 for a 32 year old also is a bit extreme
    • Fielder - no way

    Yeah Wilson & Buerhle would have helped fill the 2 starters the team needs, but not at their prices.

    Now that we have reached the 2nd tier of free agency the remaining crop of players should not be paid exorbitant salaries for any extended periods of time...1 or 2 year deals for what's left at around market price or at a discounted price can still get the job done.

    As the hot stove moves into January/February the market will change and players will be a little more desperate and accept short term deals.

    So if the Sox end up filling their 4th & 5th starters with the likes of:

    • Zach Duke
    • Rich Harden
    • Chris Young
    • Brandon Webb

    ...the bullpen with:

    • Francisco Cordero
    • Mike Gonzalez
    • George Sherrill
    • Juan Cruz

    ...and Right Handed hitting OF:

    • Ryan Ludwick
    • Cody Ross
    • Andruw Jones

    ...the 2012 team will be very competitive.

    Sometimes we may realize that less is more! Plus, the same people advocating the big money signings are the same ones that criticize them unmerciably when the players don't perform to expectations.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrh1194. Show jrh1194's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    In Response to Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason : Spoken like a true Yankee fan.  "If there is any uncertainty, THROW MONEY AT IT"
    Posted by SpacemanEephus[/QUOTE]

    I think that Sox management has learned a lesson about "throwing money at it". After the contracts of Lackey & Crawford I think that they are being more patient this time around. The front office will make some moves but will be more cautious with who they sign and what they spend.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Teakus. Show Teakus's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    Rofl! Think my point was clear enough Joseph, as I was responding to this threads poll question, and I thank you for labelling it a "brillinat concept". You seem to be espousing a wait and see plan, or a do nothing plan, while I've argued that a wiser course is to jump on the free agent market to meet at least some of our needs, rather than to short sightedly wipe out our farm system. If you were to choose to trade away top prospects, I simply reiterated the need to go for sure fire hits, rather than marginal players. And so yes, I agree with your statement that "we should only sign FA's that will provide positive long term results". Tell me Joe-what are your thoughts about what the Sox should do? Is it Bailey or bust? Or do we fill at least a few holes externally?






    In Response to Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason:
    [QUOTE] A wise franchise does WHAT IS NEEDED TO WIN. More, or less, than that is stupid. Wow!  Do other GMs know this?  Top tiered prospects should be traded for studs only. Wasting them on mediocrity because the owners would rather not pony up the dough is the single most damaging move a team can make economically,  So you're saying we shouldn't trade top prospects for mediocre talent. Aside from my usual sarcastic 'Wow, what a brillinat concept.  Let's keep that secret to ourselves', isn't that what we always do? Again, you're just babbling for no apparent reason. What's next?  We should only draft good prospects?  We should only sign FAs that will provide positive long-term results?
    Posted by Joebreidey[/QUOTE]
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from royf19. Show royf19's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    In Response to Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason:
    [QUOTE]while I've argued that a wiser course is to jump on the free agent market to meet at least some of our needs, r :
    Posted by Teakus[/QUOTE]

    This is stupid. Just because they haven't done anything to your timetable, it doesn't mean that they're not going sign anyone. There is still plenty of talent out there. Like another poster mentioned, the Sox weren't in the market for a Pujols or Fielder, and the contracts for Wilson and Buerle were stupid. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Schumpeters-Ghost. Show Schumpeters-Ghost's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason

    I still don't understand how Aaron Harang wasn't on their wish list.  they need a starter and he signed for 2 years 12 mil.

    Other than that - I'm not too worried about the club. 

    Yes, of course I'd like a major league SS - but when you go 7 seasons with AAA shortstops, you start to get used to it.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from UticaClub. Show UticaClub's posts

    Re: Red Sox FO doing the right thing this offseason





     

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